An Open Gaza Is a Path to Peace

[proudveteran06]

Is this the pessimism thread?

Ask the Palestinian why Hamas official position is that they will never accept the " 67 Borders" we hear so much about and there will be no response .

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

 

[Daniyel]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Election is the source of democracy, without elections you cannot get a real picture about what could benefit the (majority) of people, Give this propaganda video a 2-3 minutes of your time..

 

[Bloodrock44]

This is something that I have been advocating for a long time. It is good that someone else sees the same thing.
-------------------
The Israelis and Palestinians, though, need not just a ceasefire and not just an end to this conflict, but a solution to prevent conflicts from arising in the future. Unless something changes, groups like Hamas will continue to attack Israel. So how do we get them to stop? Perhaps the answer lies in something that has been presented as a part of the negotiations, such as the prospect of an opening of Gaza.

Israel Should End the Gaza Blockade for Middle East Peace - US News

No Achmed. You are an advocate for Hamas in general. You know, the organization whose charter calls for the annihilation of Israel.

 

[teddyearp]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Another deflection. Your answer doesn't even address the question.

Oh but that's right; no matter what, any thing bad for "Palestine" politically (rulers, elections, etc.) is carefully orchestrated by either Israel or the United States of America or both as far as you're concerned, isn't that what you keep saying? From your 'wealth' of information?

You have totally lost me, but the only reason I don't 'ignore' you is for the entertainment (i.e. "absolute stupidity/moron") value.

 

[toastman]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Another deflection. Your answer doesn't even address the question.

Oh but that's right; no matter what, any thing bad for "Palestine" politically (rulers, elections, etc.) is carefully orchestrated by either Israel or the United States of America or both as far as you're concerned, isn't that what you keep saying? From your 'wealth' of information?

You have totally lost me, but the only reason I don't 'ignore' you is for the entertainment (i.e. "absolute stupidity/moron") value.

Tinmore has been asked that election question like 20 times, but he's too scared to answer it, so he just blames Israel

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Another deflection. Your answer doesn't even address the question.

Oh but that's right; no matter what, any thing bad for "Palestine" politically (rulers, elections, etc.) is carefully orchestrated by either Israel or the United States of America or both as far as you're concerned, isn't that what you keep saying? From your 'wealth' of information?

You have totally lost me, but the only reason I don't 'ignore' you is for the entertainment (i.e. "absolute stupidity/moron") value.

You didn't answer the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

 

[toastman]

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Another deflection. Your answer doesn't even address the question.

Oh but that's right; no matter what, any thing bad for "Palestine" politically (rulers, elections, etc.) is carefully orchestrated by either Israel or the United States of America or both as far as you're concerned, isn't that what you keep saying? From your 'wealth' of information?

You have totally lost me, but the only reason I don't 'ignore' you is for the entertainment (i.e. "absolute stupidity/moron") value.

You didn't answer the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

Coup d'etat?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Another deflection. Your answer doesn't even address the question.

Oh but that's right; no matter what, any thing bad for "Palestine" politically (rulers, elections, etc.) is carefully orchestrated by either Israel or the United States of America or both as far as you're concerned, isn't that what you keep saying? From your 'wealth' of information?

You have totally lost me, but the only reason I don't 'ignore' you is for the entertainment (i.e. "absolute stupidity/moron") value.

You didn't answer the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

Coup d'etat?

Bingo!

Now, who funded and armed it?

 

[toastman]

You didn't answer the never answered question.

Coup d'etat?

Bingo!

Now, who funded and armed it?

America and Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Coup d'etat?

Bingo!

Now, who funded and armed it?

America and Israel?

You are on a roll.

 

[toastman]

Ok, but now the Gaza elections question remains unanswered ..

 

[flacaltenn]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Selective memory eh??

Agreement on Movement and Access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA) is an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), signed on 15 November 2005. The treaty aimed improvement of Palestinian freedom of movement and economic activity within the Palestinian Occupied Territories, and open the Gaza–Egypt border.


Content of the Agreement[edit]
The Agreement on Movement and Access determined that the Rafah Crossing between Gaza and Egypt would be opened as soon as possible under control of the PA, and under supervision of a third party (being the European Union). Goods were also permitted transit at the Karni crossing.
A "Safe Passage" would be established between Gaza and West Bank.
The number of "obstacles to movement" in the West Bank would be reduced to the maximum extent possible to be completed by 31 December 2005.
The construction of a seaport in Gaza could commence.
The parties would continue discussions on the establishment of an airport.
The Agreed Principles for Rafah Crossing provided details concerning the Rafah crossing.

Only people with Palestinian ID, or foreign nationals, by exception, in certain categories, subject to Israeli oversight, were permitted to cross in and out. The PA should notify the Israeli authorities 48 hours in advance of the crossing of a person in the excepted categories.
Rafah would be used for export of goods to Egypt, subject to rigid control. Imports should be cleared by PA customs officials at Kerem Shalom under the supervision of Israeli customs agents.[1]

All that was an EXCELLENT roadmap to a normalized INDEPENDENT GAZA.. FAR from locking the doors and taking the keys.. UNFORTUNATELY -- the folks that Israel negotiated with "lost an election" and were summarily killed and routed from Gaza.. So the Agreement never had a chance and the Palest. leadership has been SPLIT ever since..

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2006 Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election, triggering the 2006–07 economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a Palestinian authority national unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in the course of the Battle of Gaza,[4] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with its own.[5] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely sealed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled and was no longer providing security on the Palestinian side.[6]

Israel maintains that the blockade is necessary to limit Palestinian rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip on its cities and to prevent Hamas from obtaining other weapons. Prior to its 2011 opening of the Rafah crossing, Egypt maintained that it could not fully open its side of the border since completely opening the border would represent Egyptian recognition of the Hamas control of Gaza, undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian National Authority and consecrate the split between Gaza and the West Bank.[

If elections are important to these folks -- how come there have BEEN NONE since the purge in 2006-7 ?? And the Pali Authority continues to run the West Bank and ATTEMPTS to negotiate with Hamas for rescheduling elections.

Your unanswered question about that is simple. P.A. Won total LOCAL control of the West Bank.. I don't know what imagined conspiracy you refer to.. And -- frankly dont care..

 

[Indeependent]

Leslie Marshall...
Another empty headed, self-hating Jew Liberal.
Yes, I listen to her occasionally and laugh my head off at her idiocy.

Are they any Jews that you disagree with that aren't self-hating Jews? Inquiring minds want to know.

Many, especially when it comes to economics.
Self hating Jews are very visible when the origin point of their "logical" argument wouldn't pass muster in a court room.

 

[GHook93]

When Gaza becomes this

and the Gazan are all pushed in Sinai, then there will be a path to peace!

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's not pessimism -- it's reality.. Gaza can bring in cargo that has been inspected in the neighboring Israeli port. When the Independent state of Gaza chooses representation that cares more about economic opportunity and infrastructure than they do about the destruction of Israel -- everyone can go back to the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT when Israel vacated Gaza. Negotiations for a seaport, customs inspections, reopening the Gaza airport, etc.. That was the original Israel agreed to before Hamas started to murder and purge their political opposition in Gaza..

So P.F. How IMPORTANT are elections to Palestinians? And WHY have they been delayed for years??
Isn't that an issue BEYOND the control of Israel???

What original agreement was that? Israel locked the doors and threw away the key.

Of course elections are important. But there is the never answered question.

How did the losers of the elections get to be the government in the West Bank?

The answer will tell you where Israel fits into the elections.

Selective memory eh??

Agreement on Movement and Access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA) is an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), signed on 15 November 2005. The treaty aimed improvement of Palestinian freedom of movement and economic activity within the Palestinian Occupied Territories, and open the Gaza–Egypt border.


Content of the Agreement[edit]
The Agreement on Movement and Access determined that the Rafah Crossing between Gaza and Egypt would be opened as soon as possible under control of the PA, and under supervision of a third party (being the European Union). Goods were also permitted transit at the Karni crossing.
A "Safe Passage" would be established between Gaza and West Bank.
The number of "obstacles to movement" in the West Bank would be reduced to the maximum extent possible to be completed by 31 December 2005.
The construction of a seaport in Gaza could commence.
The parties would continue discussions on the establishment of an airport.
The Agreed Principles for Rafah Crossing provided details concerning the Rafah crossing.

Only people with Palestinian ID, or foreign nationals, by exception, in certain categories, subject to Israeli oversight, were permitted to cross in and out. The PA should notify the Israeli authorities 48 hours in advance of the crossing of a person in the excepted categories.
Rafah would be used for export of goods to Egypt, subject to rigid control. Imports should be cleared by PA customs officials at Kerem Shalom under the supervision of Israeli customs agents.[1]

All that was an EXCELLENT roadmap to a normalized INDEPENDENT GAZA.. FAR from locking the doors and taking the keys.. UNFORTUNATELY -- the folks that Israel negotiated with "lost an election" and were summarily killed and routed from Gaza.. So the Agreement never had a chance and the Palest. leadership has been SPLIT ever since..

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2006 Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election, triggering the 2006–07 economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a Palestinian authority national unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in the course of the Battle of Gaza,[4] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with its own.[5] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely sealed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled and was no longer providing security on the Palestinian side.[6]

Israel maintains that the blockade is necessary to limit Palestinian rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip on its cities and to prevent Hamas from obtaining other weapons. Prior to its 2011 opening of the Rafah crossing, Egypt maintained that it could not fully open its side of the border since completely opening the border would represent Egyptian recognition of the Hamas control of Gaza, undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian National Authority and consecrate the split between Gaza and the West Bank.[

If elections are important to these folks -- how come there have BEEN NONE since the purge in 2006-7 ?? And the Pali Authority continues to run the West Bank and ATTEMPTS to negotiate with Hamas for rescheduling elections.

Your unanswered question about that is simple. P.A. Won total LOCAL control of the West Bank.. I don't know what imagined conspiracy you refer to.. And -- frankly dont care..

the folks that Israel negotiated with "lost an election" and were summarily killed and routed from Gaza.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utKgXMedqpk]American Sabotage of Palestinian Democracy - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNJud3yXsqg]Laila El-Haddad reporting on Gaza violence - YouTube[/ame]

 

[teddyearp]

David Rose of Vanity Fair, a glamour magazine? Hahahahahaha! I would like to see his 'documents'. And a "Palestinian" reporter with a British accent?

What a waste.

 

[P F Tinmore]

David Rose of Vanity Fair, a glamour magazine? Hahahahahaha! I would like to see his 'documents'. And a "Palestinian" reporter with a British accent?

What a waste.

How about a report from the CBC in Canada?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ai-Udti1M]On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

Israel need to be closed. Shut up for business. Most Israelis need to go through an intensive de-Nazification process. Some of the leaders need to be lock up for crimes. Others for madness. All of them need to be locked up for life though. Israel is about the most consciously organised evil state on the planet. It produces fascists and preads them into every walk of life. It is the Mordor of our world. The Hell Mouth. The pit of despair for evil souls. And the funny thing is that FIFA is happy to associate with them. That tells you all you need to know about professional football.

Drivel.

 

[flacaltenn]

No coup d'etat. No conspiracy.. The PA WON the local elections in the West Bank, Hamas won Gaza.
And NO PALESTINIAN SINCE THEN has expressed an opinion on the subject democratically..

EVEN THO -- just prior to this latest battle in Gaza -- up to 70% of Gazans OPPOSED the militant use of those toy rockets to taunt Israel... More Gazas imprisoned and kidnapped by Hamas, then by Israel..
You are missing the plotline of this novel...