An invitation to Old Guy on the subject of Noah's Flood.

[LittleNipper]

I have no idea what St. Augustine would say about Adam.

Yes, God could have formed all of creation in its current state, but He also didn't have to. Just because He could have, does not mean He did.

There's a really good book on that subject entitled, "The Genesis Enigma: Why The Bible Is Scientifically Accurate." The author takes the Genesis account of creation and compares it with what science knows today and they dove-tail almost perfectly in the order of things. I recommend it, if you're truly interested in exploring just what the Bible says and why it says it. Remember, God is never illogical and logic tells us that the earth is really, really old.

The real problem with the 6000 year old earth theory is that in order to "prove" it, much of science must be either totally ignored or accounted for by ridiculous ideas such as "carbon dating is wrong." No, it's not wrong. It can be very precisely measured and no amount of trying to make science fit the preconception of a 6000 year old earth will change that.

PLEASE Read the following:
Does carbon dating prove the earth is millions of years old? | Creation Today

Consider the source. What would you expect them to say? That carbon dating disproves what they believe?

Among the things which Paul counseled Titus to avoid were "foolish controversies and genealogies" which engender strife and discord. Since the 6000 year old earth theory is derived from counting the Biblical generations mentioned between Christ and Adam, that seems to fit what Paul warned about. Also, never forget that Jewish family genealogies did not necessarily include every male member. For instance, if a verse says, "Bob begat Tom," that doesn't always mean Bob was Tom's father. He may have been his grandfather or great, great, great, grandfather and the genealogy would still be correct. The point being that we have no idea how many people were "left out" of that backward look at the ancestors of Christ.

Also, note that Paul warned Timothy in I Timothy to beware of false doctrines, false teachings and deliberate doctrines of demons which will come from inside the church in the latter days. If you believe, as I do, that we are in those days, then false "christian" doctrines should be all over the place, if Paul was right. He also cautioned Timothy not to become involved in any kind of controversies or disputes, but to seek after righteousness and preach the Gospel.

I'd submit to you that the 6000 year old earth theory has done nothing BUT create strife, discord, disharmony and arguments and does literally nothing to call people to Salvation. In fact, it does just the opposite and drives away people with even the most basic of scientific knowledge because the Church comes off looking like uneducated morons. If for no other reason than that, it ought not to be considered a foundational concept of Christianity. In the end, what does it matter in relation to the Great Commission?

Even according to your own logic, the theory of evolution is the new kid on the block, the swoon theory of Jesus is recent, the belief that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier is newer, "gay" marriage is new to everyone... The reality is that until the late 18th century most learned men fully believed the Flood actually happened and creationism was a divine reality of the scientific. God is about truth and not how the world views converts. God works with the meek, the rejected and lifts them up. How many converts did Noah get to come into the ark? The reality is that God oftentimes wants a witness/prophet. He is no longer about saving anyone as judgement approaches. As for all fain concern for babies, liberals have the least concern for babies when it comes to women's abortion rights but see God a butcher as they try to disprove the Flood. Such logic is absurd.

 

[JoeB131]

Is this an actual list or are you just making things up?

I think you need to stop checking for commies under your bed and actually discuss the question at hand.

If anyone is kind of sweeping the whole moral question of the bible under the rug, it's the Churches themselves.

Here's the thing. I went to Catholic Schools for 12 years. They pretty much Disneyfied most of the really awful stories in the bible. They didn't even let us get a good clean look at the Old Testament until we were in High School.

So you feel you have had a bad experience and want everyone else to share your bad experience,how thoughtful of you.

Thing is, he had no bad experience whatsoever....It's only too damn obvious he's lying his proverbial ASS off.

Look, he's just one of those angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, far left atheist types, nothing more.....The funny thing though, is that he actually thinks clear thinking people believe his myriad of abject BS....The most hilarious of his BS being, that he actually tries to claim he's a former conservative.

And, if you ever want to get a sense of who are some of the dumbest posters on this board, just look at the bottom of his posts and see who thanks him.

Basically, to sum it all up, he occupies the same room as Truthmatters, Rdean, Duddly Hermaphrodite, Lakhota, and a few other far lefty loons, who are totally insignificant, yet entertaining in their abject attempts to seem relevent on any level.

And yet look at all the space I'm occupying in your head, rent free!

For someone who thinks I'm "irrelevent", you spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what I say.

Does it truly disturb you that someone who went to Catholic Schools for 12 years could turn into an atheist after a death in the family because those fairy stories were just that, fairy stories.

Does it disturb you when someone stops voting Republican after figuring out that as a working guy, he's voting against his own economic interests?

Or do you just find it implausible because your thinking is so limited?

 

[JoeB131]

"I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy".

not because of Noah, but their misunderstanding of JC.

God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Gods commandment is Remission to the Everlasting or Perish -

humanity chose the flaws causing expulsion and is for humanity to resolve the issue.

the choice is for each individual but in fact is for the Species and as with everything in the Garden death and life from one moment to the next is never a certainty ... be thankful.



Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Noah represented the fruition to the Parable of Judgement explicit to Mankind's expulsion from the Everlasting - excluded from the Judea / Christian Bible.

Parable of Judgement: When the last good person or the last evil person on earth dies, God will return to Judge those who are remaining - they or the last to die will be granted Remission to the Everlasting.

Noah represented the last good person on earth who's death would have fulfilled the Parable and Mankind would have ceased to exist (Armageddon: the triumph of evil) - Rather, God prior to Noah's death exacted judgement beforehand on those already destined to death allowing Mankind one last chance. - The Triumph of Good over Evil.

Wow, that's really kind of a lot of nonsense that didn't come anywhere close to answering my question.

One more time, how can a God who drowns babies be considered "Good"?

It's over your head, just read your opening OP...

I did... I think I even wrote it.

One more time- How can a God who drowns babies be considered "Good"?

 

[peach174]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

 

[JoeB131]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

If the Nephilhim were sterile, what was the problem, God could just wait for them to die off.

Also, you have this bizarre thing where people before the flood lived to be 900 years old, which is kind of odd.

 

[peach174]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also
destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

If the Nephilhim were sterile, what was the problem, God could just wait for them to die off.

Also, you have this bizarre thing where people before the flood lived to be 900 years old, which is kind of odd.

God put a curse on earth and Adam & Eve. Mankind started to die after they ate the forbidden fruit. Each generation lived less, until God said that he set a time of 120 years. Not all of human women mated with them ( the Bible does not say one way or the other that all the daughters of man mated with them) but all were violent and corrupt.
Genesis 6;2 says the sons of God took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. Not every single one of them.

 

[LittleNipper]

So you feel you have had a bad experience and want everyone else to share your bad experience,how thoughtful of you.

Thing is, he had no bad experience whatsoever....It's only too damn obvious he's lying his proverbial ASS off.

Look, he's just one of those angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, far left atheist types, nothing more.....The funny thing though, is that he actually thinks clear thinking people believe his myriad of abject BS....The most hilarious of his BS being, that he actually tries to claim he's a former conservative.

And, if you ever want to get a sense of who are some of the dumbest posters on this board, just look at the bottom of his posts and see who thanks him.

Basically, to sum it all up, he occupies the same room as Truthmatters, Rdean, Duddly Hermaphrodite, Lakhota, and a few other far lefty loons, who are totally insignificant, yet entertaining in their abject attempts to seem relevent on any level.

And yet look at all the space I'm occupying in your head, rent free!

For someone who thinks I'm "irrelevent", you spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what I say.

Does it truly disturb you that someone who went to Catholic Schools for 12 years could turn into an atheist after a death in the family because those fairy stories were just that, fairy stories.

Does it disturb you when someone stops voting Republican after figuring out that as a working guy, he's voting against his own economic interests?

Or do you just find it implausible because your thinking is so limited?

Actually, I find that much of Roman Catholicism has less to do with the Bible and more to do with pagan traditions married to Christianity. It is much like Mormonism. They both house humanistic influences. The Republicans made/make mistakes; however, the reality is that Republicans were led by the anti slavery view of fundamentalists, while the Democrats followed the Catholic view in the South. It wasn't until the 1960's that the South began to swing to a more Chrisitan view of slavery and racism as biblical fundamentalism moved Southward. And people began to view what happened to the "Old" South as the direct result of the sin of slavery. It might also be seen that UNTIL the North pushed for abolishion of slavery, the war was being won by the South over the godly issue of "states rights."

 

[Oldguy]

Since God is Omniscient, he should have known this was going to happen before he started molding the clay. So his go-to solution was to drown babies- not to mention all the other animals? Because some humans were tainted with demonic blood. Why not just arrange for all the tainted people to have massive coronaries at the same time?

Your questions basically boil down an old and familiar one, a question which is not specific to just the flood: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Responses from believers usually include things like the fallen nature of man, original sin, free choice, the consequences of poor choices and things like, "If He wouldn't spare His on Son, why would He spare yours?" Sometimes, the answer is about delayed judgment; The wheat and tares won't be separated until after the harvest. There is truth in all those answers, but they inevitably come across as making excuses for God's behavior, don't they? When challenged to explain God's actions, we find ourselves grasping at any little straw to avoid answering honestly.

Well....I won't do that. I'll answer it truthfully and succinctly so that even the dullest among us can understand: I don't know.

That doesn't mean my faith is weak or that I'm denying God. It just means I really don't know, and believe me when I tell you I've seen enough suffering, death and destruction for 10 life times. That question was forever in the forefront of my thoughts when I went to war and is still there when I respond to some disaster, which I usually do 5 or 6 times a year. After all that soul-searching and scripture searching and reading and pondering, I find the honest answer is still "I don't know."

i wish I did. I wish I could reveal the reason in a blinding flash of inspiration, but I can't. Why? Because knowing that would require that I know the mind of God and I simply don't. Neither does anyone.

But, two companions questions arise:

1. Who am I to question what God does? Does He owe me an explanation? The answers is, no He doesn't and how dare I ask.

2. Am I unable to accept what He does in the faith that He IS an infallible God, that He knows what He's doing and why, even if I don't? No..I can accept that and right there is where I generally let it lie because I DO believe He is incapable of making a mistake and I DO trust Him with His creation.

The Old Testament, Hebrew word translated as "faith" only appears twice in the OT and it means to basically trust that which is trustworthy. God, in the context of its use. In the NT, the Greek word is "pistis," which comes from "pietho." It means to CHOOSE to believes something based upon the evidence. I DO chose to have faith in God because He's demonstrated over and over again that He WILL do what He promises. He has demonstrated it to me in my life a thousand times and in scripture from Genesis to Revelations.

From that point, I just quit worrying about things for which there is no answer and move on to help the victims in faith that I'm doing is what He sent me to do.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Actually, I find that much of Roman Catholicism has less to do with the Bible and more to do with pagan traditions married to Christianity. It is much like Mormonism. They both house humanistic influences. The Republicans made/make mistakes; however, the reality is that Republicans were led by the anti slavery view of fundamentalists, while the Democrats followed the Catholic view in the South. It wasn't until the 1960's that the South began to swing to a more Chrisitan view of slavery and racism as biblical fundamentalism moved Southward. And people began to view what happened to the "Old" South as the direct result of the sin of slavery. It might also be seen that UNTIL the North pushed for abolishion of slavery, the war was being won by the South over the godly issue of "states rights."

Guy, I don't see that.

Now, I have a LOT of good reasons not to have any love for the RCC. But frankly, blaming them for Southern intrangigence on slavery isn't one of them. We can largely thank the Souther Baptists for that nonsense.

I know Protestants like to think they are living a more "pure" version of Christianity, but it's laughable. They do what all the religions do. Pick and choose the bible passages that validate their world view. And try to pretend the ones they used to use that are kind of nasty now don't.

 

[JoeB131]

Since God is Omniscient, he should have known this was going to happen before he started molding the clay. So his go-to solution was to drown babies- not to mention all the other animals? Because some humans were tainted with demonic blood. Why not just arrange for all the tainted people to have massive coronaries at the same time?

Your questions basically boil down an old and familiar one, a question which is not specific to just the flood: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Responses from believers usually include things like the fallen nature of man, original sin, free choice, the consequences of poor choices and things like, "If He wouldn't spare His on Son, why would He spare yours?" Sometimes, the answer is about delayed judgment; The wheat and tares won't be separated until after the harvest. There is truth in all those answers, but they inevitably come across as making excuses for God's behavior, don't they? When challenged to explain God's actions, we find ourselves grasping at any little straw to avoid answering honestly.

Well....I won't do that. I'll answer it truthfully and succinctly so that even the dullest among us can understand: I don't know.

That doesn't mean my faith is weak or that I'm denying God. It just means I really don't know, and believe me when I tell you I've seen enough suffering, death and destruction for 10 life times. That question was forever in the forefront of my thoughts when I went to war and is still there when I respond to some disaster, which I usually do 5 or 6 times a year. After all that soul-searching and scripture searching and reading and pondering, I find the honest answer is still "I don't know."

i wish I did. I wish I could reveal the reason in a blinding flash of inspiration, but I can't. Why? Because knowing that would require that I know the mind of God and I simply don't. Neither does anyone.

But, two companions questions arise:

1. Who am I to question what God does? Does He owe me an explanation? The answers is, no He doesn't and how dare I ask.

2. Am I unable to accept what He does in the faith that He IS an infallible God, that He knows what He's doing and why, even if I don't? No..I can accept that and right there is where I generally let it lie because I DO believe He is incapable of making a mistake and I DO trust Him with His creation.

The Old Testament, Hebrew word translated as "faith" only appears twice in the OT and it means to basically trust that which is trustworthy. God, in the context of its use. In the NT, the Greek word is "pistis," which comes from "pietho." It means to CHOOSE to believes something based upon the evidence. I DO chose to have faith in God because He's demonstrated over and over again that He WILL do what He promises. He has demonstrated it to me in my life a thousand times and in scripture from Genesis to Revelations.

From that point, I just quit worrying about things for which there is no answer and move on to help the victims in faith that I'm doing is what He sent me to do.

I do respect the fact that you try to lead a good life and help people. I like to think I do as well, when I'm not just trying to get by.

But simply blindly believing in a mysterious force, I can't do that. I'm just too cynical.

I think bad things happen to good people because the universe at the end of the day is just random. The Tornado that misses the Whorehouse and wipes out the Church isn't God being Ironic, it's just nature being random.

 

[Kelamity]

Appreciate your post. Haven't heard the term "bull ring call out" before... What's the origin & meaning? Googled it -- no help. Curious... Thanks!

 

[Foxfyre]

Appreciate your post. Haven't heard the term "bull ring call out" before... What's the origin & meaning? Googled it -- no help. Curious... Thanks!

A call out is usually when one member invites another member to explore a topic more in depth. Sometimes it is just for general sniping and a food fight, and sometimes, like here it is an invitation to a serious discussion.

The Bullring on USMB is an area where two members can debate a topic, just the two of them, without commentary from any other members. They usually select a judge to pick the winner of the debate.

At least I think that's the way it works having not spent any time there myself.

 

[Foxfyre]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

All good observations Peach. In my opinion, there is some histoical content in Genesis, but also some of it is allegory based on legends and lore that always point to God as the source of all and everything, but include stories and metaphors to explain why things are the way they are. You start with Adam andEve and the 'original sin', the Cain and Abel story in which sin spreads throughout the family; the story of Noah in which sin spreads throughout the community, and then we move on to Babel where it spreads throughout the world.

Real people? Real events? I have no problem with those who believe them that way and I have no problem with those who see them as allegory because I don't think it matters. As for the flood, every ancient culture has a flood story. It is conceivable that there was massive flooding that to the local people of that time, with limited knowledge of what the whole world was, thought it was universal. Who knows. Does it matter? The stories have something to teach those who are willing to embrace the teaching.

 

[JoeB131]

Appreciate your post. Haven't heard the term "bull ring call out" before... What's the origin & meaning? Googled it -- no help. Curious... Thanks!

A call out is usually when one member invites another member to explore a topic more in depth. Sometimes it is just for general sniping and a food fight, and sometimes, like here it is an invitation to a serious discussion.

The Bullring on USMB is an area where two members can debate a topic, just the two of them, without commentary from any other members. They usually select a judge to pick the winner of the debate.

At least I think that's the way it works having not spent any time there myself.

Which isn't what I wanted to do with Old Guy because I mostly like what he has to say and consider him a pretty good guy. He just made interesting comments on this topic on another thread, so I started this one to discuss it and still remain on topic.

 

[Samson]

Noah's Flood?



Whoever the retard was that titled this thread clearly hasn't the slightest inkling about the subject.

It was Noah's Ark.



It floated during the Flood in the Book of Genesis.



Idiots make the internet entertaining.

 

[Oldguy]

I do respect the fact that you try to lead a good life and help people. I like to think I do as well, when I'm not just trying to get by.

I couldn't do it either until I quit working. Before that, I was just trying to get by. What's actually astonishing is that from this vantage point looking back, I can see God preparing me for the role I play now in ways I did not see then. In fact, could not see then because I hadn't a clue where I would end up or, for that matter, that the ministry I'm involved in now even existed. I didn't even become aware of it before I was ready to undertake it.

But simply blindly believing in a mysterious force, I can't do that. I'm just too cynical.

Oh, no. It's not blindly believing. I can't do that either and don't see how anybody of reasonable intelligence can. It's just so...so...so contrary to good sense.

I gave my soul to Christ in 1973, but still had many, many doubts as to whether or not what I was professing (but not living) was true. Then one day, I heard a preacher on the radio (Hebert W. Armstrong) talking about a similar period in his life and he said he finally decided to examine the evidence and prove to himself it was all true. So, he did. What a great idea, I thought, so I set out to do the same thing. It wasn't like a concentrated field of study, but more like finding the answers to a seemingly endless series of questions: What evidence is there of the existence of God? What proof is there that Jesus Christ ever existed? How do I know He is the Son of God? How do I know the Bible is true?

Just going by the Biblical tales wasn't enough. After all, it were all a lie, wouldn't it be logical to expect that to reinforce, or even create the lie? I looked elsewhere for verification, matching what the Bible says against nature and science and psychology and human relations and history. I made cursory examinations of the sayings of Buddha and Confucius, familiarized myself with the basics of Hinduism, naturalism, philosophy, Islam. Naturally, I can't tell it all because this process took some time. I was blessed to be in an occupation which provided a lot of time for reflection and reading. I drove an over the road truck, which has a lot of down time waiting to load or unload or to be dispatched, and long, endless nights alone. Plenty of opportunities to read and think, to ponder and consider.

Eventually, I came to this conclusion: Yes, it is all true. The preponderance of the evidence says that. No, it's not definitive, 100% and iron clad, but like a jury in a trial, I weighed the volume of evidence and consciously, deliberately decided to believe. What's amazing is that I did not know the Greek definition of faith then, but what I did is exactly what New Testament, true saving faith turned out to be. I examined the evidence and chose to believe.

But, that all turned out to be just the starting point, not the whole journey or the destination. After having committed to Christ, I needed to SUBmit to Christ and that I did not do for about 25 years. I didn't reach that point until my hypocritical life of saying one thing and living another finally brought me to the point that I had failed at everything. Divorced from my wife of 30 years, estranged from most of my kids, I'd quit a good job and found another where I worked harder for less money, lived alone in a 900 square foot apartment where I drank nearly all the time and eventually ended up sitting on the bed cradling a shotgun and contemplating the unthinkable. That was about 12 years ago, in my early 50's.

But, you know what? That Jesus Christ I'd forsaken and pretty much ignored had not forgotten me. At the moment of my final end, He stepped in and rescued me, just as He'd promised to do. From the depths of my self-dug pit, the only option I had left was to finally, at long last, surrender my whole life to Him and Him alone. Within a remarkably short period of time (about 18 months), He restored everything I'd lost, including my wife and kids. Like Job, I regained all I'd had and more. He took me by the heart and transformed my whole life, from one end to the other, and introduced me to a purpose for living that I didn't have a clue was even there, which I never could have expected.

Today, I can tell you with absolute assurance and confidence that Jesus Christ is real, He's alive, He's involved and He WILL deliver exactly what He's promised to deliver to those who believe and let go: love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. (Gal. 5:22-23) Those are things I had precious little of before, but which I now have in abundance and that through literally no effort of my own.

No, it's not a blind faith by any means. It's a proven faith to me and anybody can prove it to themselves by simply choosing to believe and surrendering your will to His. It really is that simple.

I think bad things happen to good people because the universe at the end of the day is just random. The Tornado that misses the Whorehouse and wipes out the Church isn't God being Ironic, it's just nature being random.

Sometimes that's true. God created natural forces which take their assigned course and often we get caught up in it. It sometimes is random, though even that randomness must have the hand of God behind it or He's not the God He claims to be. I used to see the effects of tornadoes and such as I traveled around the country and I wondered why, just as you said. Why did this house get hit, and not that one? Why this town, and not that one over there?

But, when I was called into disaster relief ministry (and that's what it is...a calling) I discovered that the more important thing is not to wonder why, but to watch what the effects are in the lives of people and brother, believe me I've seen the effects first hand!

Since I started doing this in 2005, I've responded to 25 or 30 different disasters. Hurricanes, floods, fires, tornadoes, ice storms, violent storms, earthquakes. Literally, from New York to California, from North Dakota to Haiti, I've been neck deep in destruction, misery, pain, confusion, turmoil and death. And, that's on top of what I saw and experienced in the war! If I don't know anything else, I know what those things do to human beings, what it does to their consciousness, their psyche, their soul.

About all I do anymore is initial damage assessment. Typically, I'm among the very first non-governmental people into a disaster area after they open the roads. My job is to meet with the victims in the wreckage of their lives and property, face to face, eyeball to eyeball, and offer them hope, show them that Christ loves them enough to send me and I love them enough to go. Many times, I'm the first one they meet representing Christ and the first one from the Southern Baptist's. As such, I get to make an the initial impression of both us as an organization and Christ and that is a grave responsibility which not just anyone of weak or timid faith can do. That's why me, and those like me, are chosen to do it. And, I am only able to do that because Christ prepared me for it over a span of now 63 years, AND preserved my health in spite of my best efforts to wreck it.

I haven't yet figured out why all these things happen (though it's sometimes readily apparent), but I have seen that people of Faith are better armed and prepared for disasters than are those of no or blind faith. They're better able to shrug it off, move on and separate the wheat of their lives from the chaff. They are the Noah's of this world, the ones who survive and prosper after they've lost everything. They're not the ones in a state of shock, the ones who have be led like a blind, deaf mute child through the process of recovery. They're the ones who have a Rock to cling to, not the ones who suddenly find themselves adrift, and that Rock is real.

Through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of personal contacts, I've seen disasters result in everything from a total collapse to a re-birth of faith to a new and genuine faith. I've seen people who KNOW they were punished for what they've done and others who KNOW the experience has increased their faith. I've seen individuals, families, neighborhoods, cities and whole countries transformed almost overnight by horror and misery. Haiti is an excellent example. Within in the first 9 months after a devastating earthquake which killed almost 300,000 people in 90 seconds, more than 100,000 people turned to Christ in faith just with we Southern Baptist's! I can't imagine what the overall total is, but I guarantee you Haiti will not be the same as it was, not ever again.

No, I can't tell you why those things happen. I wish I could. But, I CAN testify to what happens in the aftermath and it is ALWAYS positive and good. Always. Without exception, good flows from such evil.

God really does know what He's doing. He really does.

 

[Oldguy]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

All good observations Peach. In my opinion, there is some histoical content in Genesis, but also some of it is allegory based on legends and lore that always point to God as the source of all and everything, but include stories and metaphors to explain why things are the way they are. You start with Adam andEve and the 'original sin', the Cain and Abel story in which sin spreads throughout the family; the story of Noah in which sin spreads throughout the community, and then we move on to Babel where it spreads throughout the world.

Real people? Real events? I have no problem with those who believe them that way and I have no problem with those who see them as allegory because I don't think it matters. As for the flood, every ancient culture has a flood story. It is conceivable that there was massive flooding that to the local people of that time, with limited knowledge of what the whole world was, thought it was universal. Who knows. Does it matter? The stories have something to teach those who are willing to embrace the teaching.

You are absolutely correct. What do the particulars of the story matter when the message is clear?

 

[Kelamity]

Appreciate your post. Haven't heard the term "bull ring call out" before... What's the origin & meaning? Googled it -- no help. Curious... Thanks!

A call out is usually when one member invites another member to explore a topic more in depth. Sometimes it is just for general sniping and a food fight, and sometimes, like here it is an invitation to a serious discussion.

The Bullring on USMB is an area where two members can debate a topic, just the two of them, without commentary from any other members. They usually select a judge to pick the winner of the debate.

At least I think that's the way it works having not spent any time there myself.

Thanks Foxy... and guess what... with this post, I just hit my 15+ post milestone... getting to quote you... lmao.. i'm such a newb

 

[Foxfyre]

When you are raised by violent and corrupt parents,you know nothing about what is good, you also grow up to become corrupt.

Not only was the bloodline of mankind corrupted by the sons of God but they all grew up to become corrupt and violent.

No mention of babies are made in Genesis.
Noah's sons were married but they did not have any children until after the flood.
Perhaps the corruption of the bloodline, mating with the sons of God, they could not conceive and were sterile. Like Mules, they can not produce, because of the mismatch of genetic material.

The Covent with Noah seems to have some clue as to why the animals were also destroyed.
In Genesis 9:2 is says that with the new covenant with Noah the beasts would now fear mankind.

So it was changed, before the flood there was no rain, only a mist and a hint that animals did not fear man until after the flood.

All good observations Peach. In my opinion, there is some histoical content in Genesis, but also some of it is allegory based on legends and lore that always point to God as the source of all and everything, but include stories and metaphors to explain why things are the way they are. You start with Adam andEve and the 'original sin', the Cain and Abel story in which sin spreads throughout the family; the story of Noah in which sin spreads throughout the community, and then we move on to Babel where it spreads throughout the world.

Real people? Real events? I have no problem with those who believe them that way and I have no problem with those who see them as allegory because I don't think it matters. As for the flood, every ancient culture has a flood story. It is conceivable that there was massive flooding that to the local people of that time, with limited knowledge of what the whole world was, thought it was universal. Who knows. Does it matter? The stories have something to teach those who are willing to embrace the teaching.

You are absolutely correct. What do the particulars of the story matter when the message is clear?

It doesn't matter to you and it doesn't matter to me, but I can also go with those who take the stories more literally and put a different emphasis on them. Who knows who is right? And I believe God works with people of faith and isn't all that interested in our theology anyway.

 

[Oldguy]

All good observations Peach. In my opinion, there is some histoical content in Genesis, but also some of it is allegory based on legends and lore that always point to God as the source of all and everything, but include stories and metaphors to explain why things are the way they are. You start with Adam andEve and the 'original sin', the Cain and Abel story in which sin spreads throughout the family; the story of Noah in which sin spreads throughout the community, and then we move on to Babel where it spreads throughout the world.

Real people? Real events? I have no problem with those who believe them that way and I have no problem with those who see them as allegory because I don't think it matters. As for the flood, every ancient culture has a flood story. It is conceivable that there was massive flooding that to the local people of that time, with limited knowledge of what the whole world was, thought it was universal. Who knows. Does it matter? The stories have something to teach those who are willing to embrace the teaching.

You are absolutely correct. What do the particulars of the story matter when the message is clear?

It doesn't matter to you and it doesn't matter to me, but I can also go with those who take the stories more literally and put a different emphasis on them. Who knows who is right? And I believe God works with people of faith and isn't all that interested in our theology anyway.

Bingo!