An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Invitees:
NewsVine_Mariyam
TemplarKormac
iamwhatiseem
Porter Rockwell
freyasman
eagle1462010
IM2
katsteve2012
MarcATL
Asclepias
OldLady
Coyote

I am an African American woman who was born during a time when the United States was still legally segregated.

I can't adequately express how incredulous it is to me to hear people attempt to claim that the people of the United States, which was founded by white supremacists, some how magically had a change of hearts and minds after 171 years of legally sanctioned oppression and subjugation of people of African descent and were able to leave behind their deeply held beliefs of racial superiority, simply because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, effectively putting an end to legal racial discrimation.

Some of the topics I've seen come up have been:
1. The United States was created by white people for white people and their descendents
2. It cannot be stated that the United States is racist because it has taken strides to atone for its racist past
3. Black people cannot be racist
4. Having a spouse that is not white is proof that the white person can't be racist.

The items above and just suggestion. You can select any, all of none of them or come up with your own.

I will set the debate to begin tonight at midnight and conclude tomorrow tomorrow at midnight. That is 12:00 pacific time.

If you have any ideas of suggestions please chime in. OldLady will be moderating for us however Coyote I believe will be joining us as well but I don't believe as a monitor.

I look forward to meeting up with you all soon, thank you.

Oh and please let me know if I have forgotten anyone.

 

[IM2]

I was not invited to your debate but I will throw in my two cents anyway

Thought policing is unAmerican

the white majority has repealed Jim Crowe and given you the freedom to pursue your dreams

Thats all anyone is entitled to

if the bad actions of black people hurt your reputation among whites - and they do - those are the private opinions of white citizens who are entitled to the same freedom you have

instead of lecturing white people and demanding that they give up some of their rights, you should direct your wraith at other blacks that are making you look bad

Nobody has asked whites to give up rights. We have asked for the same rights. Repealing Jim Crow has not automatically ended racism and when whites have 243 years of bad actions, perhaps you should consider your reputation among blacks. We have directed our wrath where it should go.

This is not about thought policing, it is about restructuring a system based on white preferential treatment. You are living by a double standard where you ignore bad behavior from whites to lecture somebody. That needs to end.

 

[IM2]

Translation: Give us lots of money and free houses and electricity n stuff! Then watch us kill each other over the loot!

Why is it that you are ignorant to all the things whites have been given by the government? Why is it that you ignore white people killing each other every year in the same numbers and sometimes more?

 

[IM2]

Can we get rid of uninvited people who are only going to troll?

 

[freyasman]

Nobody has asked whites to give up rights. We have asked for the same rights. Repealing Jim Crow has not automatically ended racism and when whites have 243 years of bad actions, perhaps you should consider your reputation among blacks. We have directed our wrath where it should go.

This is not about thought policing, it is about restructuring a system based on white preferential treatment. You are living by a double standard where you ignore bad behavior from whites to lecture somebody. That needs to end.

What right do I have under the law that you don't?

 

[OldLady]

Can we get rid of uninvited people who are only going to troll?

I'll try. Only reply to invitees, IM.

 

[IM2]

Whites have been given free land, free education, guaranteed home loans, and every opportunity the American system can give. I was born here, I don't have to leave because I ask for complete equal rights.

 

[OldLady]

What right do I have under the law that you don't?

Racism isn't about the laws on the books. As @Mariyam said, the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't magically change the hearts and minds of white people. Of course it didn't. Laws can't do that. Laws are nothing but words on paper until they are acted upon by individuals and the courts. That is where the problem lies.

As a white American, you, freyasman, have the right to be viewed as an individual, judged by your own actions. You have the right to walk into a job interview, a store, walk down a street in an elite community, without being automatically judged by the actions of every other white person. Think about it. White people commit mass shootings, sexually abuse young children, go on SS disability, rob drug stores for oxycontin, as well as all the other things people accuse blacks of as a group--leeching off welfare, commiting assault and robbery, etc. etc. But when someone sees you, they don't automatically jump to those negatives and suspect YOU of those things.

Why is it that blacks are?

Why is their unemployment rate still double that of whites? Why are more of them living in poverty? Why are so many in prison? All those things are interrelated. The equal opportunity of the LAW has not magically changed the hearts and minds of people who hire, who grant loans, rent apartments, promote, decide who to pull over for a traffic stop, a stop and frisk.

At some point, people get fed up. They're fed up right now. And even though millions of protesters have gathered and protested without violence, without rioting or looting, guess what? Even our President can't seem to comment on anything but the violence, the rioting and looting. It's a lot simpler, isn't it, than grappling with the harder problem, which is giving a hard think to our own biases and listening to the situation from the people on the ground who know what is happening.

The black community is telling us that racism still exists. That they are still not getting a fair shake. Rather than immediately start with the "they" thing again and ranting about the rioting and violence, it is time to shut our mouths and listen. It is the only way the laws will ever achieve their goal.

 

[OldLady]

You could ban yourself, since you and the other racists don't want to discuss the real issues, you just want to make up bullshit stories and then claim white people should give you lots of money for being black. We know none of you beleive a word of your BS, if you did you would be begging to be deported. But Africa has no rich white people who will give you everybody else''s money to keep your violence in your own neighborhoods, so you aren't going anywhere.

Picaro, this is the Bull Ring. You are welcome to read, but participants are limited to those who have been invited.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

NewsVine_Mariyam
Your comment... I can't adequately express how incredulous it is to me to hear people attempt to claim that the people of the United States, which was founded by white supremacists, some how magically had a change of hearts and minds after 171 years of legally sanctioned oppression and subjugation of people of African descent and were able to leave behind their deeply held beliefs of racial superiority, simply because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, effectively putting an end to legal racial discrimation.
Shows me you have no intent to discuss racial issues. Your mind is clearly closed. You, incredulously, seem to think that white people today are the same people as those that first came here. What an ignorant statement. That somehow we are tainted people. Which, by definition, is racist.

 

[freyasman]

Racism isn't about the laws on the books. As @Mariyam said, the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't magically change the hearts and minds of white people. Of course it didn't. Laws can't do that. Laws are nothing but words on paper until they are acted upon by individuals and the courts. That is where the problem lies.

As a white American, you, freyasman, have the right to be viewed as an individual, judged by your own actions. You have the right to walk into a job interview, a store, walk down a street in an elite community, without being automatically judged by the actions of every other white person. Think about it. White people commit mass shootings, sexually abuse young children, go on SS disability, rob drug stores for oxycontin, as well as all the other things people accuse blacks of as a group--leeching off welfare, commiting assault and robbery, etc. etc. But when someone sees you, they don't automatically jump to those negatives and suspect YOU of those things.

Why is it that blacks are?

Why is their unemployment rate still double that of whites? Why are more of them living in poverty? Why are so many in prison? All those things are interrelated. The equal opportunity of the LAW has not magically changed the hearts and minds of people who hire, who grant loans, rent apartments, promote, decide who to pull over for a traffic stop, a stop and frisk.

At some point, people get fed up. They're fed up right now. And even though millions of protesters have gathered and protested without violence, without rioting or looting, guess what? Even our President can't seem to comment on anything but the violence, the rioting and looting. It's a lot simpler, isn't it, than grappling with the harder problem, which is giving a hard think to our own biases and listening to the situation from the people on the ground who know what is happening.

The black community is telling us that racism still exists. That they are still not getting a fair shake. Rather than immediately start with the "they" thing again and ranting about the rioting and violence, it is time to shut our mouths and listen. It is the only way the laws will ever achieve their goal.

Okay, that was a bunch of sniveling bullshit.

Show me this "black community" that is doing all this whining, would you?
Because my uncles and cousins don't ever complain about this, and after 30 years of drinking with them, even if they were holding back, I would think something would have slipped out..... in vino veritas, and all.

I think this comes from a minority within a minority, some of whom are simply worthless, and others who are trying to guilt, shame, and manipulate others into letting them into a position of advantage...... fuck those race-pimping losers. Who elected them as spokesmen for the "black community"?

 

[freyasman]

Picaro, this is the Bull Ring. You are welcome to read, but participants are limited to those who have been invited.

Can I invite him in?

 

[IM2]

What right do I have under the law that you don't?

For a law to count it must be followed.

Here are words from flash who admitted to a long career of breaking the law.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement I was an Engineer. The last 20 years of my career I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never short listed anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

“Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid "affirmative action" hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental "diversity" demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”​

What has happened in this country is that every time laws were made to give blacks equality there has been a white backlash. Whites today still backlash against the civil rights and voting rights laws and policies during the 60's. Your opinion is an example of that backlash.

 

[IM2]

Okay, that was a bunch of sniveling bullshit.

Show me this "black community" that is doing all this whining, would you?
Because my uncles and cousins don't ever complain about this, and after 30 years of drinking with them, even if they were holding back, I would think something would have slipped out..... in vino veritas, and all.

I think this comes from a minority within a minority, some of whom are simply worthless, and others who are trying to guilt, shame, and manipulate others into letting them into a position of advantage...... fuck those race-pimping losers. Who elected them as spokesmen for the "black community"?

You think wrong.

 

[freyasman]

Racism isn't about the laws on the books. As @Mariyam said, the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't magically change the hearts and minds of white people. Of course it didn't. Laws can't do that. Laws are nothing but words on paper until they are acted upon by individuals and the courts. That is where the problem lies.

As a white American, you, freyasman, have the right to be viewed as an individual, judged by your own actions. You have the right to walk into a job interview, a store, walk down a street in an elite community, without being automatically judged by the actions of every other white person. Think about it. White people commit mass shootings, sexually abuse young children, go on SS disability, rob drug stores for oxycontin, as well as all the other things people accuse blacks of as a group--leeching off welfare, commiting assault and robbery, etc. etc. But when someone sees you, they don't automatically jump to those negatives and suspect YOU of those things.

Why is it that blacks are?

Why is their unemployment rate still double that of whites? Why are more of them living in poverty? Why are so many in prison? All those things are interrelated. The equal opportunity of the LAW has not magically changed the hearts and minds of people who hire, who grant loans, rent apartments, promote, decide who to pull over for a traffic stop, a stop and frisk.

At some point, people get fed up. They're fed up right now. And even though millions of protesters have gathered and protested without violence, without rioting or looting, guess what? Even our President can't seem to comment on anything but the violence, the rioting and looting. It's a lot simpler, isn't it, than grappling with the harder problem, which is giving a hard think to our own biases and listening to the situation from the people on the ground who know what is happening.

The black community is telling us that racism still exists. That they are still not getting a fair shake. Rather than immediately start with the "they" thing again and ranting about the rioting and violence, it is time to shut our mouths and listen. It is the only way the laws will ever achieve their goal.

And telling me I must "shut my mouth and listen" is a blatant attempt to silence others...... fuck that, fuck you, fuck the horse you rode in on, and fuck everybody in the Yellow Pages with the same last name as you.

Nobody tells me to shut up unless they are willing to kill or die over it.
That's how strongly I feel about that.


If that "community" wants to better itself they can, right now and today, with no help from anyone else, stop having kids out of wedlock...... fatherless kids do worse by every metric there is.
You want shit to be better? Then fucking make it better.

 

[freyasman]

For a law to count it must be followed.

Here are words from flash who admitted to a long career of breaking the law.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement I was an Engineer. The last 20 years of my career I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never short listed anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

“Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid "affirmative action" hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental "diversity" demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”​

What has happened in this country is that every time laws were made to give blacks equality there has been a white backlash. Whites today still backlash against the civil rights and voting rights laws and policies during the 60's. Your opinion is an example of that backlash.

So what?

Get over it and get on with your life.

 

[freyasman]

You think wrong.

One of us sure does.






But it ain't me.

 

[IM2]

NewsVine_Mariyam
Your comment... I can't adequately express how incredulous it is to me to hear people attempt to claim that the people of the United States, which was founded by white supremacists, some how magically had a change of hearts and minds after 171 years of legally sanctioned oppression and subjugation of people of African descent and were able to leave behind their deeply held beliefs of racial superiority, simply because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, effectively putting an end to legal racial discrimation.
Shows me you have no intent to discuss racial issues. Your mind is clearly closed. You, incredulously, seem to think that white people today are the same people as those that first came here. What an ignorant statement. That somehow we are tainted people. Which, by definition, is racist.

Her mind is not closed but yours is. The same attitude of white racial superiority exists now as it did in the beginning.

 

[IM2]

So what?

Get over it and get on with your life.

My life is just fine, there will be no getting over until there is a change.

 

[IM2]

One of us sure does.






But it ain't me.

But it is you and today you will learn how wrong you are.