Americans are more dissatisfied than citizens of other nations with their basic healt

[FistyTheBadger]

That is because we have freedom of information (and misinformation) while other countries do not have freedom and are told and cultivated as a matter of national and genetic pride that they have the best out there.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Shouldn't that "Nope" have been a "Yup"? After all you just made my case for me - thank you...

No, because your point wasn't third-party payers in healthcare. It was litigation costs.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh, and if we're talking about rising expenditures on healthcare, rather than simply rising prices - no, they aren't the same thing - the number one reason we spend more and more as a nation on healthcare every year is our aging population. The second reason is technological advances.

 

[Gord]

You don't have to. the stats are there for all to see, but just bear in mind the game that's played with them.

If you can find an MD working full time in the USA making less than $100K a year, you will have found something mighty rare indeed

I have not seen the stats, but like I said I'll take your word for it.

Maybe we missed each others' points. It doesn't matter who pays for the drugs, what does matter his how much they cost. The same drugs in Canada cost LESS than they do here.

Do you know why?

America has a problem with GP's too.

Bang for the buck they're the best doctors we have yet they get no respect and their salaries reflect that.

Damned shame in my opinion.

I agree. After all they are the entry point for most people's health care. I think a market system based on Medical Savings Accounts would bring back a more personal relationship between patient and doctor, and GP's would be free to set their own fees without insurance companies baring down on them or governments setting all of the rules.

 

[Gord]

No, because your point wasn't third-party payers in healthcare. It was litigation costs.

You described a free market system, which is what I described, and is much cheaper than a govenrment mandated one. I don't see where we're parting here.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is because we have freedom of information (and misinformation) while other countries do not have freedom and are told and cultivated as a matter of national and genetic pride that they have the best out there.

And Americans seem to be peculiarly vulnerable to "the Big Lie" when perpetrated by our media. We're bombarded daily with the message that our healthcare system is horrible and broken and substandard, and most of us have never lived in any other country or even spent much time researching the question, so we have no basis for real comparison.

The United States was founded by people who were more than ready to *****, complain, and storm out in a huff whenever they were pissed off. See the Pilgrims, the Western settlers, the American Revolution, the War Between the States . . . It's not surprising that bitching is part of our national heritage.

 

[garyd]

America is also the only western country in which every time you turn around some idiot is telling you how bad US health care is. I'll make about 30k this year. I've access to health care whenever I want it. Does it cost me more than it cost people overseas? It depends almost entirely on how you wish to calcualte the costs.

Try getting dialysis or a kidney transplant if you are over 67 and a French Citizen...

 

[Chris]

There are three reasons American health care is more expensive:

1. High malpractice insurance caused by

2. Too high litigation awards that Democrats refuse to allow limits on

3. Illegal aliens

There is a much better system than either the current one or single payer. It is called Medical Savings Accounts. You buy catastrophic insurance with an anywhere from $5000 to $10,000 deductible. This would cost $150 to $300 per month. This covers all medical expenses above the deductible in case of a major medical problem, including long term. Then you set up a tax free savings account and place the rest of your money that you would pay to medicare, medicade taxes or any other current medical insurance expenses into it each month. Over time you pay for your medical care as you find it necessary up to the deductible then the insurance takes over. If your family is healthy you keep building the account, receiving interest along the way and when it is topped up to your deductible amount you no longer need to spend any more than your insurance premium each month. One benefit of this system is that it takes the government out of the decision making process completely. You are in complete control of your family's health care. This also adds incentive for people to take care of themselves with a visible benefit of saving more money for how healthy your family is. Another benefit is that you will not be bankrupted by a major health problem. And the government doesn't go bankrupt trying to sustain an inefficient medical care system. And you can will the savings account to your children.

Some sort of government insurance program may be needed for those at the extreme wrong end of the societal bell curve. But anyone who works or receives any sort of pension is already paying more now than would be necessary for medical savings accounts simply because it is a much more efficient system.

An additional way to pay for medical care would be to allow for the sale of your own organs upon death. You sign a contract to allow your organs to be harvested and the money paid goes to your medical savings account and on to your family.

You really are living in a fantasy world.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

And Americans seem to be peculiarly vulnerable to "the Big Lie" when perpetrated by our media. We're bombarded daily with the message that our healthcare system is horrible and broken and substandard, and most of us have never lived in any other country or even spent much time researching the question, so we have no basis for real comparison.

The United States was founded by people who were more than ready to *****, complain, and storm out in a huff whenever they were pissed off. See the Pilgrims, the Western settlers, the American Revolution, the War Between the States . . . It's not surprising that bitching is part of our national heritage.

Bitching is part of our national heritage, and I am ******* proud of it. I do get your point, though.

 

[garyd]

If you make above 50 k a year that is exactly what you want Chris. That number takes in the top 40 percent of Americans.

 

[Gord]

You really are living in a fantasy world.

Look, I know it went right over your head just as it did with Old Socks...

 

[Cecilie1200]

America is also the only western country in which every time you turn around some idiot is telling you how bad US health care is. I'll make about 30k this year. I've access to health care whenever I want it. Does it cost me more than it cost people overseas? It depends almost entirely on how you wish to calcualte the costs.

Try getting dialysis or a kidney transplant if you are over 67 and a French Citizen...

I had a friend who needed an MRI. He got three of them in less time than it would have taken him to get one in most countries, and I'm talking about industrialized countries, not third-world hellholes. He needed three because he's claustrophobic. They had to stop the first partway through because he wigged out, reschedule it with sedation, and when he STILL wigged out, they scheduled the third in one of the newer open MRI machines. For the record, many US cities only have one or two clinics with an open MRI. My city, with a population of approximately a million people, only has one, but we were able to get scheduled for a week later. Wanna take bets on whether you can do that in Canada or the UK?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bitching is part of our national heritage, and I am ******* proud of it. I do get your point, though.

Well, yeah. Who wants to be part of a country that just lies down and takes it, whatever "it" happens to be?

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Well, yeah. Who wants to be part of a country that just lies down and takes it, whatever "it" happens to be?

Exactly.

 

[Chris]

Look, I know it went right over your head just as it did with Old Socks...

Hardly.

There are many reasons why our healthcare is TWICE as expensive per capita as the rest of the Western democracies, and illegal aliens isn't one of them.

 

[garyd]

The main one sir being that we don't limit access by denying certain services to large segments of the population...

 

[editec]

The main one sir being that we don't limit access by denying certain services to large segments of the population...

The main one being, sir, that we have the highest paid HC professionals in the world, the most expensive medicine in the world and no sane system of checks to prevent that trend from getting worse.

The daughter of a friend of mine is studying Medicine in Germany now.

Full scholarship of course, and she's not even a citizen of Germany.

When it comes to devising an effective HC system, this nation is totally fucked up.

We keep trying to fix this problem by funding the demand side instead of fixing the SUPPLY side.

 

[sparky]

sure, we've got a lambourghini of a HC system, but most of us drive chevy's & fords....

what realy and truely seems to differ about us is our 'tudes toward each other about it. we like to blame each other for misfortunes that are more like HC russian roulette here...

how many of you know someone who has taken the HC fall here?

seems the 'sucks to be them' canard gets played a tad much here to me...

oh but (trying to be PC) peace on earth, and goodwill to men on this day to all of you!

 

[garyd]

And you want to be operated on by some guy wondering why he spent 8 years in college and 2-to four years as an intern and resident to make about the same money as a truck driver who dropped out of school in the 10th grade???

 

[sparky]

conversley, your ok with capatilist medicine equating to health being based on wealth here garyd?

the rich live, the poor die?

the examples would burn a hole in this site....

here's a few loosers that we can play blame game with....

Too Sick to Work? Need Health Care? Take a Number

here's 9 million American children we cannot

State of America's Children 2008® Report
CDF's State of America's Children 2008 report, a compilation of the most recent and reliable national and state-by-state data on poverty, health, child welfare, youth at risk, early childhood development, education, nutrition and housing. The report provides a a statistical compendium of key child data showing epidemic numbers of children at risk: the number of poor children has increased nearly 500,000 to 13.3 million, with 5.8 million of them living in extreme poverty, and nearly 9 million children lack health coverage―with both numbers likely to increase during the recession. The number of children and teens killed by firearms also increased after years of decline.

According to the CDF report, children in America lag behind almost all industrialized nations on key child indicators. The United States has the unwanted distinction of being the worst among industrialized nations in relative child poverty, in the gap between rich and poor, in teen birth rates, and in child gun violence, and first in the number of incarcerated persons.

each and every one?