Amendment to return power to states with veto

[The T]

The Amendment process ended slavery and gave women the right to vote. The Amendment process is a legtimate way to change the Constitution.

Not some Federal Judge in California.

Or some law written intentionally to skirt around (usurp) it.

 

[The T]

As a real American I support my Constitution

No desire to change it

Amendments are the Constitution.

Not the EPA or Federal judges.

Or Presidential Czars.

 

[goldcatt]

Look folks.

This idea would require a completely NEW constitutional form of government.

Putting aside the issue of whether its a good idea, you do realize, don't you, that there is no way in hell that we could have our current consitutional government and include with it, this modification of it?

Bingo!

But the bumper stickers say it's a good idea, so.....

Chasing leaves blowing in the wind. We need to restore the built in fixes to our Federalist System, restore the light touch it was intended to be. For the Control freaks, Totalitarianism Bad! Tyranny Bad!

The answer is, as always, balance. There has to be a unifying force in order to keep the States and their competing interests from tearing the whole apart. There also needs to be a power larger than the States to correct their abuses when they take place. There must be, as the early Confederates found out, a single head of State other nations can look to with confidence when conducting foreign policy. A strong central government is necessary to any nation as large and diverse as the US.

Strong does not mean totalitarian though. The false dichotomy of Confederacy or Totalitarian ignores an incredibly wide selection of shades of gray. That gray is what is set up in the system, and what we need to be focused on.

But it sure looks nice on a rally sign and a bumper sticker, doesn't it?

 

[The T]

Great idea. If the 10th Amendment were complied with, this would not be necessary.

Tea Party Pushes Repeal Amendment to Give States Power Over Federal Government

"Any provision of law or regulation of the United States may be repealed by the several states, and such repeal shall be effective when the legislatures of two-thirds of the several states approve resolutions for this purpose that particularly describe the same provision or provisions of law or regulation to be repealed."

I think too that repeal of the 17th Amendment would shore things up.

 

[Intense]

Bingo!

But the bumper stickers say it's a good idea, so.....

Chasing leaves blowing in the wind. We need to restore the built in fixes to our Federalist System, restore the light touch it was intended to be. For the Control freaks, Totalitarianism Bad! Tyranny Bad!

The answer is, as always, balance. There has to be a unifying force in order to keep the States and their competing interests from tearing the whole apart. There also needs to be a power larger than the States to correct their abuses when they take place. There must be, as the early Confederates found out, a single head of State other nations can look to with confidence when conducting foreign policy. A strong central government is necessary to any nation as large and diverse as the US.

Strong does not mean totalitarian though. The false dichotomy of Confederacy or Totalitarian ignores an incredibly wide selection of shades of gray. That gray is what is set up in the system, and what we need to be focused on.

But it sure looks nice on a rally sign and a bumper sticker, doesn't it?

The greatest warning and concern of Our Founders was abuse of Power, knowing Human Nature to be what it is. This is not a Grateful Dead Concert with Shades of Gray, it is Our Lives in the balance. One does not screw with and ignore that balance from a position of Authority, and get to argue that it is just a matter of hue or perception. The act is abusive, Usurpation. The end does not justify the means. It never has. There is Consent, rule of law, and due process, all transparent and not above scrutiny and account. Government is accountable to us, more so than itself. The mechanism is not above it's creator. For every injustice, there is remedy.

 

[goldcatt]

Chasing leaves blowing in the wind. We need to restore the built in fixes to our Federalist System, restore the light touch it was intended to be. For the Control freaks, Totalitarianism Bad! Tyranny Bad!

The answer is, as always, balance. There has to be a unifying force in order to keep the States and their competing interests from tearing the whole apart. There also needs to be a power larger than the States to correct their abuses when they take place. There must be, as the early Confederates found out, a single head of State other nations can look to with confidence when conducting foreign policy. A strong central government is necessary to any nation as large and diverse as the US.

Strong does not mean totalitarian though. The false dichotomy of Confederacy or Totalitarian ignores an incredibly wide selection of shades of gray. That gray is what is set up in the system, and what we need to be focused on.

But it sure looks nice on a rally sign and a bumper sticker, doesn't it?

The greatest warning and concern of Our Founders was abuse of Power, knowing Human Nature to be what it is. This is not a Grateful Dead Concert with Shades of Gray, it is Our Lives in the balance. One does not screw with and ignore that balance from a position of Authority, and get to argue that it is just a matter of hue or perception. The act is abusive, Usurpation. The end does not justify the means. It never has. There is Consent, rule of law, and due process, all transparent and not above scrutiny and account. Government is accountable to us, more so than itself. The mechanism is not above it's creator. For every injustice, there is remedy.

Exactly. But what so many forget is abuse of power happens with any party in power, not just the Federal government. Given the power, the States were and would be just as bad if not worse. Why worse? Because there would be fifty separate squabbling, competing dogs fighting over the remnants of one bone and trying desperately to keep their own citizens in line so they didn't truck themselves off to swell the ranks of neighboring States.

If you despair of accountability and transparency at the Federal level, how do you like the prospect of trying to get it at fifty different State levels, all of them crouching and snarling over their own sovereign territory? Welcome to 1788.

Of course there are ways the balance can and probably should be adjusted, but tearing the heart out of the system isn't the answer.

 

[zzzz]

This amendment is cowardice. If you want to change the way we govern then call a constitutional convention and revise the whole constitution and fix everything!!!

That’s the problem with all these "fly by night" proposals, they do not get to the core issue and correct the flaws. They paper over things. This amendment will not pass because the very people that must vote for it do not want to lose their power. They float these things to fire up their constituency knowing full well that it will not get to a floor vote and put them on the spot.

 

[The T]

Look folks.

This idea would require a completely NEW constitutional form of government.

Putting aside the issue of whether its a good idea, you do realize, don't you, that there is no way in hell that we could have our current consitutional government and include with it, this modification of it?

No it wouldn't. it would restore the Intent of the Founders as codified by the Adoption of the Constitution in the first place.

So many laws and even amendments have usurped the intent that the States were soverign entities within themselves and the intent that they and the people themselves held power over the Federal Govenment in the first place.

Synopsis? The Federal Government has become too intrusive, and it's time to reign it in with the States and the people taking back that which is rightfully theirs in the first place.

 

[code1211]

Look folks.

This idea would require a completely NEW constitutional form of government.

Putting aside the issue of whether its a good idea, you do realize, don't you, that there is no way in hell that we could have our current consitutional government and include with it, this modification of it?

I respect your logic, but I don't understand your concern on this.

Why would this dismantle the current form of government?

 

[The T]

Look folks.

This idea would require a completely NEW constitutional form of government.

Putting aside the issue of whether its a good idea, you do realize, don't you, that there is no way in hell that we could have our current consitutional government and include with it, this modification of it?

I respect your logic, but I don't understand your concern on this.

Why would this dismantle the current form of government?

it wouldn't. Some are vested in the current state of affairs where Federal Government reigns surpreme over the many soveriegn States with unfunded mandates and such.

Some are afraid to stray from what they have always known...even thoguh what they have known lives in a usurped LIE foisted upon the States and people by a Federal Government that has gotten outta control.
Some comfort zones are really quite narrow.

 

[snjmom]

I think too that repeal of the 17th Amendment would shore things up

.

You may want to check into the reasons for the amendment. The issues have only gotten worse, vis a vis state legislatures, not better. Personally, I don't want any politician selecting my Senator.

 

[The T]

I think too that repeal of the 17th Amendment would shore things up

.

You may want to check into the reasons for the amendment. The issues have only gotten worse, vis a vis state legislatures, not better. Personally, I don't want any politician selecting my Senator.

The purpose, or intent of State Legislatures originally selecting Senators was to give States a voice in the Senate as to Federal matters and how each State would be affected by Federal legislation...and by election of the people and their interests were conducted via popular elections to the House.

The Combination of the two [Senate and House] would come to a compromise in legislation to become LAW for the POTUS to sign or Veto.

In deference to today's situation? I would agree. But even the State legislatures have changed hands to a more RED hue...and I see an oppritunity to make this happen on behalf of the people.

 

[snjmom]

Well, the purpose of communism was to overthrow oppression. That didn't work out so well in practice either.

But even the State legislatures have changed hands to a more RED hue...and I see an oppritunity to make this happen on behalf of the people.

Where will all your glee be when you have instituted these rules and the State legislatures become blue or, heaven forbid, green? Please don't tell me you wish to amend the constitution in order to benefit a particular political party.

 

[The T]

Well, the purpose of communism was to overthrow oppression. That didn't work out so well in practice either.

But even the State legislatures have changed hands to a more RED hue...and I see an oppritunity to make this happen on behalf of the people.

Where will all your glee be when you have instituted these rules and the State legislatures become blue or, heaven forbid, green? Please don't tell me you wish to amend the constitution in order to benefit a particular political party.

However? Communist Governments didn't have checks and balances written in to their 'Constitutions' that deferred to the States or the People either as ours does.

 

[snjmom]

They thought they did.

USSR Constitution

Note how they address the various spheres of influence, the Union, the Republics, the Autonomous Republics, the Courts.


Again, I ask, should we amend our constitution in order to further the goals of a particular political party?

 

[loosecannon]

I swear to god reading this thread I get the distinct feeling that most of you have forgotten the real chain of command.

The states and the federal government derive their authority from we the people protected by the 9th and 10th amendment.

The feds have no authority that is not supplied by the people, via the many states. It's that simple.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Great idea. If the 10th Amendment were complied with, this would not be necessary.

Tea Party Pushes Repeal Amendment to Give States Power Over Federal Government

"Any provision of law or regulation of the United States may be repealed by the several states, and such repeal shall be effective when the legislatures of two-thirds of the several states approve resolutions for this purpose that particularly describe the same provision or provisions of law or regulation to be repealed."

Look crack head, there is an order, and it doesn't start with states, you stupid asshole. Go play on the merry-go-round and let the adults handle this druggie.

Quite right, it starts with the people, goes from them to the city/county, then the states, and finally the feds.

Or did you think it works the other way around?

 

[The T]

They thought they did.

USSR Constitution

Note how they address the various spheres of influence, the Union, the Republics, the Autonomous Republics, the Courts.


Again, I ask, should we amend our constitution in order to further the goals of a particular political party?

First one would presuppose that this has a partisan bent rather than the purpose of a return to the Intent of the Founders.

 

[snjmom]

But even the State legislatures have changed hands to a more RED hue...and I see an oppritunity to make this happen on behalf of the people.

First one would presuppose that this has a partisan bent rather than the purpose of a return to the Intent of the Founders.

You tell me. It seems to be the reason for your support.

 

[bodecea]

Look folks.

This idea would require a completely NEW constitutional form of government.

Putting aside the issue of whether its a good idea, you do realize, don't you, that there is no way in hell that we could have our current consitutional government and include with it, this modification of it?

No it wouldn't. it would restore the Intent of the Founders as codified by the Adoption of the Constitution in the first place.

So many laws and even amendments have usurped the intent that the States were soverign entities within themselves and the intent that they and the people themselves held power over the Federal Govenment in the first place.

Synopsis? The Federal Government has become too intrusive, and it's time to reign it in with the States and the people taking back that which is rightfully theirs in the first place.

How'd that work out for John C. Calhoun?