Am I the ONLY one that thinks lawyers are the BANE to the USA?

healthmyths

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"Bane" -- "a cause of great distress or annoyance".
With all the discussions about Obamacare health care costs why is the very little finger pointing at the gigantic gorilla in the room?
Why with all the respect shown for the medical professionals is their observation that the number one cost driver doesn't seem to merit any attention similar to tanning salons!
Yea... every one got so excited.. we're gonna shut down those terrible tanning salons by taxing them 10%! After all tanning causes cancer and cancer cause claims and claims make
up 80% of health insurance premium use.. so boy let's get after those mean old tanning salons!!!

All the while almost EVERYONE for some reason protects the millionaire lawyers!
Legal profession grossed $270 billion.
Yet everyone seems to ignore these millionaire lawyers MAJOR contribution to the $850 billion a year that the medical profession clearly states costs our health care system needlessly!
Now some of you truly DUMB people say "well doctors make referral income" or they own those MRI sites.. or some other totally ignorant comment!
First obviously those dumb people NEVER heard of the Stark Law that on penalty of prison forbids any health care provider that is paid by Medicare to refer for any services to other providers that would compensate the referring provider! SO that's one reason I believe these statistics.
The other reason... come on you idiots... why would intelligent people such as doctors complain about "defensive medicine" if it affected their pocket book?
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

So why are we so afraid to go after the NUMBER ONE reason for health insurance premiums to increase ?

Are you people that afraid ???

NOW I want to warn you idiots who complain about well doctors make mistakes... etc... YES they DO! NO question!
But when 94% of lawsuits are settled out of court mostly by the insurance companies because they know they can pass it on to US the premium payers.. isn't that the
really graft issue that is involved? REDUCE the $850 billion in wasted duplicate testing and you will reduce the cost of your premiums!
TAX the lawyers 10% and use that to pay the premium for the truly 4 million people that want, are legal and need insurance!
 

Avatar4321

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Probably not. Not sure I see it as justified, though there are some attorneys that are a pain in the butt.
 
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healthmyths

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Probably not. Not sure I see it as justified, though there are some attorneys that are a pain in the butt.
Not sure that $850 billion a year is not an issue?
Not sure that when 90% of experts, i.e. physicians state clearly they practice defensive medicine, i.e. $850 billion spent wastefully they are right?
What are you not sure of?
I am not sure why people want insurance premiums to continue to increase ... IN PART to the companies go ahead and pay the bills including these duplicate test!

I just am baffled. The majority of people believed Obama's "if you like your plan.. keep it"... yet you and others DON"T believe the experts i.e. physicians
telling you there is no benefit to their duplicate testing except to make sure they don't get sued! Totally waste according to them.
And you aren't sure???
 
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Sunni Man

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America has the most lawyers per capita than any country in the world. (1 for every 265 citizens)

And almost half of the members of Congress and the Senate are lawyers.

As is the President, his wife, and most of the people in government power positions.

Which explains why things are soo screwed up. ...... :evil:

.
 
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g5000

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THE TEMPER OF THE LEGAL PROFESSION IN THE UNITED STATES, AND HOW IT SERVES AS A COUNTERPOISE TO DEMOCRACY

de Toqueville means that title in a good way.


Men who have made a special study of the laws derive from this occupation certain habits of order, a taste for formalities, and a kind of instinctive regard for the regular connection of ideas, which naturally render them very hostile to the revolutionary spirit and the unreflecting passions of the multitude.
The profession of the law is the only aristocratic element that can be amalgamated without violence with the natural elements of democracy and be advantageously and permanently combined with them. I am not ignorant of the defects inherent in the character of this body of men; but without this admixture of lawyer-like sobriety with the democratic principle, I question whether democratic institutions could long be maintained; and I cannot believe that a republic could hope to exist at the present time if the influence of lawyers in public business did not increase in proportion to the power of the people.

Pay special attention to this part, because it is extremely important, and is why I opposed Sotomayor's nomination to the Supreme Court because she is more like the French lawyers described herein:

This predisposition has another effect upon the character of the legal profession and upon the general course of society. The English and American lawyers investigate what has been done; the French advocate inquires what should have been done; the former produce precedents, the latter reasons. A French observer is surprised to hear how often an English or an American lawyer quotes the opinions of others and how little he alludes to his own, while the reverse occurs in France. There the most trifling litigation is never conducted without the introduction of an entire system of ideas peculiar to the counsel employed; and the fundamental principles of law are discussed in order to obtain a rod of land by the decision of the court. This abnegation of his own opinion and this implicit deference to the opinion of his forefathers, which are common to the English and American lawyer, this servitude of thought which he is obliged to profess, necessarily give him more timid habits and more conservative inclinations in England and America than in France.
 
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Vox

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No, you are not. And you are right. Plus the activist and plain stupid judges...
 

HenryBHough

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Q. When seeing a greasy smear on the highway how does one know whether the roadkill was a snake or a lawyer?

A. If it was a snake you'll see skid marks.
 

g5000

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Lawyers and cops. Everybody hates them until they need one.
 

Vox

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Probably not. Not sure I see it as justified, though there are some attorneys that are a pain in the butt.
it is not the attorneys. It is the SYSTEM.

look at the latest judicial idiocy in this country - ventilating a corpse for almost a month - per judge order, who HIMSELF acknowledged that the patient is LEGALLY and MEDICALLY dead ( by the law).

this won't be possible ANYWHERE else on this planet and the least of possible in a single payer systems - leftards, pay attention - as single payer systems are extremely sensitive to money spending and this is just glaring example of idiotic draining a lot of money down the toilet.

In any other country with a single payer system the family won't have any say after the patient is declared brain dead, and no judge would even take a case - it would land up in a garbage - because there is no case.
 

francoHFW

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Obama-Care adds care guidelines that should save a lot of malpractice and costs...not reported on RW media, of course...or LSM or any of our drive by media for that matter...
 
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Sunni Man

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Only a lawyer could dream up the absurd defense of "Affluenza" for his client.

Which shows how sick and demented members of the law profession have sunk.

And why they are the bane of our country. ..... :doubt:
 

Vox

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Only a lawyer could dream up the absurd defense of "Affluenza" for his client.

Which shows how sick and demented members of the law profession have sunk.

And why they are the bane of our country. ..... :doubt:
correction - only in this country such a lame defense would ever be considered by a judge. Anywhere else the lawyer would be scolded and the case going the proper way.

on the other hand, since the judge was retiring it is just simply logical to assume he got a nice private retirement present - and THAT can happen everywhere.
 

Granny

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Tell you what - I spent 25 of my employment years working for attorneys. If clients had any idea of some things that go on, lawyers would have no clients. The legal world is a very close knit brotherhood and will have each others backs regardless of what laws are broken. One exception to the rule is a lawyer who screws around with escrow and/or trust accounts. THAT will bring down brotherhood ire.

When someone wants to sue a lawyer for malpractice or whatever it's very hard to find an attorney who will represent them. They will almost always claim a "conflict of interest" which in law jargon means the "conflict" is that they may never get any future referrals from lawyers they try to sue on behalf of their client.

There are no more gentlemen lawyers. They are quickly going the way of the few surviving WWII veterans. And what comes out of law schools these days are nothing more than smart ass, know-it-all punks.
 
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healthmyths

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Obama-Care adds care guidelines that should save a lot of malpractice and costs...not reported on RW media, of course...or LSM or any of our drive by media for that matter...
NO there isn't!
UNLIKE the rest of the dredge in ACA
STATE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS TO EVALUATE ALTERNATIVES TO CURRENT MEDICAL TORT LITIGATION.
Part P of title III of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C.
280g et seq.), as amended by this Act, is further amended by adding at the end the following:
‘‘SEC. 399V–4. STATE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS TO EVALUATE ALTERNATIVES TO CURRENT MEDICAL TORT LITIGATION.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary is authorized to award demonstration grants to States for the development, implementation, and evaluation of alternatives to current tort litigation for resolving disputes over injuries allegedly caused by health care providers or health care organizations. In awarding such grants, the Secretary shall ensure the diversity of the alternatives so funded."

DEMONSTRATION GRANTS!!!! "EVALUATE ALTERNATIVES"!!!!

NOTHING about reducing the $850 billion in duplicate tests,etc.. and it is up to the STATES!!!

SO why everything else is CENTRAL PLANNING... except TORT reform! And at only authorized by Secretary of HHS!!!
 

emilynghiem

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"Bane" -- "a cause of great distress or annoyance".
With all the discussions about Obamacare health care costs why is the very little finger pointing at the gigantic gorilla in the room?
Why with all the respect shown for the medical professionals is their observation that the number one cost driver doesn't seem to merit any attention similar to tanning salons!
Yea... every one got so excited.. we're gonna shut down those terrible tanning salons by taxing them 10%! After all tanning causes cancer and cancer cause claims and claims make
up 80% of health insurance premium use.. so boy let's get after those mean old tanning salons!!!

All the while almost EVERYONE for some reason protects the millionaire lawyers!
Legal profession grossed $270 billion.
Yet everyone seems to ignore these millionaire lawyers MAJOR contribution to the $850 billion a year that the medical profession clearly states costs our health care system needlessly!
Now some of you truly DUMB people say "well doctors make referral income" or they own those MRI sites.. or some other totally ignorant comment!
First obviously those dumb people NEVER heard of the Stark Law that on penalty of prison forbids any health care provider that is paid by Medicare to refer for any services to other providers that would compensate the referring provider! SO that's one reason I believe these statistics.
The other reason... come on you idiots... why would intelligent people such as doctors complain about "defensive medicine" if it affected their pocket book?
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

So why are we so afraid to go after the NUMBER ONE reason for health insurance premiums to increase ?

Are you people that afraid ???

NOW I want to warn you idiots who complain about well doctors make mistakes... etc... YES they DO! NO question!
But when 94% of lawsuits are settled out of court mostly by the insurance companies because they know they can pass it on to US the premium payers.. isn't that the
really graft issue that is involved? REDUCE the $850 billion in wasted duplicate testing and you will reduce the cost of your premiums!
TAX the lawyers 10% and use that to pay the premium for the truly 4 million people that want, are legal and need insurance!
Dear HealthMyth:
Another good post - 5 to 10 stars! [I also liked your statement on the myth of the 46 million uninsured also. You seem to have a good radar for hitting right on key focus points.

My friend Vern who ran for President twice to study the monopoly on the process as a small business owner, has a whole website (LegalReform-Now.org Homepage.) on lawyers monopolizing 80% of govt. Any other professional industry with that many members directly or indirectly influencing govt would be considered a "conflict of interest."

I don't believe it is constitutional to run things this way. It is NOT free speech or unabridged right to petition if the lawyers/judges monopolize the process financially and politically.

I have written and published numerous letters in newspapers on this issue:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

I believe in FREE MEDIATION to fulfill equal protection of due process and representation, based on consensus decisions that guarantee equal INCLUSION, representation and protection of people's diverse, even conflicting, views/beliefs equally under law instead of discriminating or imposing one side over another, which again I find unconstitutional.

So I have a real internal and external conflict with the legal and legislative system that relies on majority rule to bully and excluse dissenting views opinions beliefs and interests.

So I agree with you and Vern that this conflict of interest must be pointed out, acknowledged, resolved and corrected, including seeking restitution for wrongs and abuses
and investing owed money for debts and damages into fixing the problems caused.

If you feel strongly about this issue, could I form a team with you and Vern, combining our ideas and push for a resolution? For one, I would like to write a formal resolution on the ACA, demanding that both parties recognize diverse political beliefs under law and not enforcing acts that would PENALIZE or discriminate against citizens who believe in free choices of alternatives to buying health insurance (including people who want singlepayer without corporate insurance involved; and people who want free market choices such as insurance policies they had before without govt mandates).

Since I also would like to work with you on pushing for better health coverage than what ACA currently reforms, could we do both? separately or combined?

It just happens that I agree with you on both issues (and so does my friend Vern).

Thanks for bringing this up, too.

I believe solving this problem would compel reforms needed for due process and conflict resolution in general to stop the political and financial monopoly on public policies and authority.

Amazing you hit on both the universal problem, and specific problems with health care reform. Where I agree with you on both levels!

Yours truly,
Emily

=====================================================
For lawyers and legal/judicial abuse in general:
I compare legal abuse of state authority with religious abuse of church authority.
Why not check both with the same concept of holding institutions to their own laws?

For as many people who protest religious abuse of church authority, the monopoly and abuse of legal and govt authority is a more dangerous situation because those laws are mandatory. How can you use a corrupt system to check itself? While you make it illegal to defy those laws and judicial authorities of court orders? Abuse is worse than with religion.

We need to start rewarding people financially for resolving conflicts themselves, and reducing the demand on dumping problems on courts and legislatures who exploit these issues for money or votes without solving the problems they are benefiting from. Global warming is another prime example; if the solution was based on preventing/correcting pollution then all the sides might agree to clean up the environment from corporate waste and dumping. but if people make money off carbon credits, and all the money goes into legal and legislative fighting over proving or disproving 'global warming' nothing gets done.

As long as people are divided in conflict and blame other sides, the money to fight goes to lawyers and campaign funds, and media, who all benefit from conflicts going unresolved!

There are so many different groups fighting against legal abuse and corruption of campaigns of judges, etc. but as long as they are divided by political agenda, left and right, then the people don't fully unite as one force to check these abuses. The money and energy just goes to pit "one political side against another for points toward elections"
and the problem goes unaddressed.

There was a major organizer in Las Vegas against legal abuses; she had to stay as a DBA while the others that form nonprofits or political organizations end up with restrictions and are no longer as free to work on legal abuse in general from all angles.
 
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healthmyths

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"Bane" -- "a cause of great distress or annoyance".
With all the discussions about Obamacare health care costs why is the very little finger pointing at the gigantic gorilla in the room?
Why with all the respect shown for the medical professionals is their observation that the number one cost driver doesn't seem to merit any attention similar to tanning salons!
Yea... every one got so excited.. we're gonna shut down those terrible tanning salons by taxing them 10%! After all tanning causes cancer and cancer cause claims and claims make
up 80% of health insurance premium use.. so boy let's get after those mean old tanning salons!!!

All the while almost EVERYONE for some reason protects the millionaire lawyers!
Legal profession grossed $270 billion.
Yet everyone seems to ignore these millionaire lawyers MAJOR contribution to the $850 billion a year that the medical profession clearly states costs our health care system needlessly!
Now some of you truly DUMB people say "well doctors make referral income" or they own those MRI sites.. or some other totally ignorant comment!
First obviously those dumb people NEVER heard of the Stark Law that on penalty of prison forbids any health care provider that is paid by Medicare to refer for any services to other providers that would compensate the referring provider! SO that's one reason I believe these statistics.
The other reason... come on you idiots... why would intelligent people such as doctors complain about "defensive medicine" if it affected their pocket book?
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

So why are we so afraid to go after the NUMBER ONE reason for health insurance premiums to increase ?

Are you people that afraid ???

NOW I want to warn you idiots who complain about well doctors make mistakes... etc... YES they DO! NO question!
But when 94% of lawsuits are settled out of court mostly by the insurance companies because they know they can pass it on to US the premium payers.. isn't that the
really graft issue that is involved? REDUCE the $850 billion in wasted duplicate testing and you will reduce the cost of your premiums!
TAX the lawyers 10% and use that to pay the premium for the truly 4 million people that want, are legal and need insurance!
Dear HealthMyth:
Another good post - 5 to 10 stars! [I also liked your statement on the myth of the 46 million uninsured also. You seem to have a good radar for hitting right on key focus points.

My friend Vern who ran for President twice to study the monopoly on the process as a small business owner, has a whole website (LegalReform-Now.org Homepage.) on lawyers monopolizing 80% of govt. Any other professional industry with that many members directly or indirectly influencing govt would be considered a "conflict of interest."

I don't believe it is constitutional to run things this way. It is NOT free speech or unabridged right to petition if the lawyers/judges monopolize the process financially and politically.

I have written and published numerous letters in newspapers on this issue:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

I believe in FREE MEDIATION to fulfill equal protection of due process and representation, based on consensus decisions that guarantee equal INCLUSION, representation and protection of people's diverse, even conflicting, views/beliefs equally under law instead of discriminating or imposing one side over another, which again I find unconstitutional.

So I have a real internal and external conflict with the legal and legislative system that relies on majority rule to bully and excluse dissenting views opinions beliefs and interests.

So I agree with you and Vern that this conflict of interest must be pointed out, acknowledged, resolved and corrected, including seeking restitution for wrongs and abuses
and investing owed money for debts and damages into fixing the problems caused.

If you feel strongly about this issue, could I form a team with you and Vern, combining our ideas and push for a resolution? For one, I would like to write a formal resolution on the ACA, demanding that both parties recognize diverse political beliefs under law and not enforcing acts that would PENALIZE or discriminate against citizens who believe in free choices of alternatives to buying health insurance (including people who want singlepayer without corporate insurance involved; and people who want free market choices such as insurance policies they had before without govt mandates).

Since I also would like to work with you on pushing for better health coverage than what ACA currently reforms, could we do both? separately or combined?

It just happens that I agree with you on both issues (and so does my friend Vern).

Thanks for bringing this up, too.

I believe solving this problem would compel reforms needed for due process and conflict resolution in general to stop the political and financial monopoly on public policies and authority.

Amazing you hit on both the universal problem, and specific problems with health care reform. Where I agree with you on both levels!

Yours truly,
Emily

=====================================================
For lawyers and legal/judicial abuse in general:
I compare legal abuse of state authority with religious abuse of church authority.
Why not check both with the same concept of holding institutions to their own laws?

For as many people who protest religious abuse of church authority, the monopoly and abuse of legal and govt authority is a more dangerous situation because those laws are mandatory. How can you use a corrupt system to check itself? While you make it illegal to defy those laws and judicial authorities of court orders? Abuse is worse than with religion.

We need to start rewarding people financially for resolving conflicts themselves, and reducing the demand on dumping problems on courts and legislatures who exploit these issues for money or votes without solving the problems they are benefiting from. Global warming is another prime example; if the solution was based on preventing/correcting pollution then all the sides might agree to clean up the environment from corporate waste and dumping. but if people make money off carbon credits, and all the money goes into legal and legislative fighting over proving or disproving 'global warming' nothing gets done.

As long as people are divided in conflict and blame other sides, the money to fight goes to lawyers and campaign funds, and media, who all benefit from conflicts going unresolved!

There are so many different groups fighting against legal abuse and corruption of campaigns of judges, etc. but as long as they are divided by political agenda, left and right, then the people don't fully unite as one force to check these abuses. The money and energy just goes to pit "one political side against another for points toward elections"
and the problem goes unaddressed.

There was a major organizer in Las Vegas against legal abuses; she had to stay as a DBA while the others that form nonprofits or political organizations end up with restrictions and are no longer as free to work on legal abuse in general from all angles.
=========================
Thank you for your comments.
My simple point is if a 10% tax on tanning salons because tanning causes cancer, why not 10% on lawyers as they CAUSE doctors to order defensive medicine..
$850 billion a year! In addition hospitals overcharge medicare by 6,000% sometimes to recoup the uninsured.
So why not have all the "uninsured" services send claims to the Uninsured Health Ins. Co.© and these claims paid by the $27 billion in taxes on lawyers.

So three things happen.. Lawyers taxes would go down as the $850 billion decreases, hospitals can't over charge Medicare and the 4 million are covered.
ALL done without changing ANYONE's insurance!
Simple solution that will never take place because it is too simple and 47% of congress and Obamas are lawyers!
Lawyers gave nearly $300 million to Democrats and Obama in 2008 jus to prevent tort reform!
 

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