jeffrockit
Senior Member
- Nov 16, 2008
- 1,341
- 165
- 48
Where did I state that "kids are cars"? As I stated, it was an analogy and was directed at performance; and as I stated, that analogy will work for most jobs as performance should be a major factor. I do also hold the administration accountable for a 40% graduation rate and do wish them to get off "scot free" and also agree that the parents hold some responsibility too. Do you disagree the action taken and if so, why? Should you be allowed to perform at 40% on your job?
caddis
Old Chum
lol...you really are an arogant ass
Your first line implied you were an arogant ass your second line confirms it
You have no understanding of what I meant when I said " traditionally, teachers teach in the manor and style that best fits their personality and comfort zone."
I never said nor implied that TYVM
Odd, by promoting state testing, you remove the role of the traditional teacher. His knowledge doesn't matter because someone else wrote his test. You may as well get Obama to read a teleprompter to a class filled with facts that students will be tested on.
That's not what "progressive" means but thanks for giving me a definition that YOU work with.
Well than, thanks for not answering the question.
You sure to love to talk. All that from a tiny snippet of my words and you didn't address what I was saying
Pardon me.
Couple of important assumptions you just glossed over, which, BTW, goes back to a previous question I asked "Who writes the test?" And to add to that, who writes the standards?
Nice dodge. You are the one that wants to hold teachers accountable by testing, explain how you test auto, art, and wood shop and then compare the results to an English teacher you wish to fire because his students failed to perform
Where's the equity?
The same people that write your tests and standards are the "American education" people who have made that decision
caddis
Old Chum
Suppose you were doing inventory in a store and you had to count widgets on a shelf. If there were 135 in each box and the shelf had 8 unopened boxes, would you count each widget or would you multiply?
I bet 9 people out of 10 will grab a calculator and multiply (The tenth may do it by hand)
The multiplication facts and skills you learned in primary school weren't important (You can use a calculator) but understanding the simple concept that multiplication is adding the same number a set amount of times is very important. Understanding the concept allowed you to apply the math.
Filling minds with facts is great if you want a generation of Jeopardy champions.
Before you think I totally disagree with you and Hirsh, I believe certain facts and skills must be learned (typically in primary school) and that leaning is usually through drill and kill. May not be fun but no one said leaning was supposed to be fun
csbarry
I'm just getting started!
At the end of 2008, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development placed the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined.
Headed to the top of the heap at that time was South Korea where 93 percent of high school students graduated on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas.
I support Education Commissioner Deborah A Gist's decision to fire the whole lot at the Central Falls High School in Rhode Island. I'm sure that those who are lucky enough to be recalled in the fall will do a fine job from that point in time on. I think I might have taken it one step further though and dumped the Central Falls Board of Education as well as managing operatives, i.e., the Superintendent and the like.
I truly believe they should continue with this policy throughout the United States.
Headed to the top of the heap at that time was South Korea where 93 percent of high school students graduated on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas.
I support Education Commissioner Deborah A Gist's decision to fire the whole lot at the Central Falls High School in Rhode Island. I'm sure that those who are lucky enough to be recalled in the fall will do a fine job from that point in time on. I think I might have taken it one step further though and dumped the Central Falls Board of Education as well as managing operatives, i.e., the Superintendent and the like.
I truly believe they should continue with this policy throughout the United States.
Last edited:
LibocalypseNow
Senior Member
- Jul 30, 2009
- 12,337
- 1,370
- 48
They have failed the children and themselves. They will not be missed.
kwc57
BOHICA Obama
From the article in the OP.
"The mass firings were approved by the school district's board of trustees Tuesday night after talks failed between Superintendent Frances Gallo and the local teachers union over implementing changes, including offering more after-school tutoring and a longer school day. The teachers say they want more pay for the additional work."
I don't know about you, but I work for a living. If my employer tells me that I have to work 10 hours a day, lose a week of vacation and work Saturdays, I'd damn sure expect to be paid MORE for the MORE they are asking of me. I don't work for my employer out of the kindness of my heart. We have an agreement where I give them 40 hours of work per week for a set salary. They want more, they got to give me more.
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
And, to support your point, the assumption is that the teachers are the only, or main reason for the failure of the students.
If that were the case, firing is the least of it: they should be jailed!
But...it is not the case.
Samson
PĂłg Mo ThĂłin
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
Misspellings!
Not reading the post you are commenting on!
Totally reversing the point of my most recent post!
Who are you and what have you done with Samson???
I clearly recognize his value and am willing to raise any ransom for Samson- in fact that will be our motto- up to and including $1.98!
Harm not a hair on Samsons head... or the jawbone of that ass.
Return him at once, or I may have to give you the Picasso-facelift: both eyes knocked to one side of your face!
Now if it is you, Samson, did you decide that ‘rehab is for quitters’?
Last edited:
Samson
PĂłg Mo ThĂłin
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
Misspellings!
Not reading the post you are commenting on!
Totally reversing the point of my most recent post!
Who are you and what have you done with Samson???
I clearly recognize his value and am willing to raise any ransom for Samson- in fact that will be our motto- up to and includeing $1.98!
Harm not a hair on Samsons head... or the jawbone of that ass.
Return him at once, or I may have to give you the Picasso-facelift: both eyes knocked to one side of your face!
Now if it is you, Samson, did you decide that ‘rehab is for quitters’?
You owe me an answer: Leather or Lace?
bodecea
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #114
Maybe we should model our schools on what South Korea does then:
Education in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
I believe that in your (elevated) line of work, the question au courant is "paper or plastic, ma'am?"
bodecea
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #116
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
Perhaps Ms. Coulter can get a job teaching there.
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
In respect for your avatar, we celebrate:
March 2, 1904 - Dr. Seuss born(Theodor Seuss Geisel) (Pulitzer Prize-winning author [1984]: The Cat in the Hat, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas, Green Eggs and Ham; died Sep 24, 1991)
Samson
PĂłg Mo ThĂłin
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
Perhaps Ms. Coulter can get a job teaching there.
I'd love to see that.
Samson
PĂłg Mo ThĂłin
I'll split the difference and assume you mean Latex.
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
The best thing about your posts is that they allow me to be the expositor that I love to be.
......
......
And so, my friend, the Progressive Movement, while dealt a body blow in the 1920 elections, is still with us in the area of education.
Oh, and as for #2, it is due to the element of force, as liberalism stems from fascism.
Any other questions?
Have you heard the expression: "Sometimes Less is More?"
You're exposition is fairly basic: Education in the USA has never been anything but what you'd call "progressive," having been influanced since 1920, and only being in compulsory existance in the states since 1918.
The simple fallacy of this arguement is that you cannot characterise "Education in the USA," regardless of how much Ann Coulter would like to lable it as such for the past 90 years. The only nationally applied standards have been effective since the passage of NCLB. The OP is a result of these standards: The Schools were underperforming based on NCLB instituted measurements; The board chose to remedy the situation with more instructional time (longer schooldays/more schooldays).
The board did NOT choose to pay for this additional time, so the teachers (unionized) refused to work for free, as would any sane group of Americans. They were subsequently fired.
Who will replace them? Better Teachers?
Even Ms Coulter cannot believe that better quality/quantity teaching is had when individuals chose to teach more for less.
Perhaps Ms. Coulter can get a job teaching there.
Unclear why you and the hirsute one have brought up Queen Ann, but as you wish:
Ann Coulter on Education :: Accuracy In Academia
When Ann CoulterÂ’s most recent book, Godless,
1. In chapter 6: The Liberal Priesthood: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Teacher, Coulter takes on teacher indoctrination, pay, qualifications, and crime. She cites Jay Bennish, the high school teacher caught on tape comparing Bush to Hitler and saying the U.S. is the “single most violent nation on planet Earth,” as evidence. She also lists a number of schools busy banning Christian faith references, while forcing students to participate in activities of other faiths.
2. Coulter tackles the failure of government schools…Coulter uses information from David Salisbury of the Center for Education Freedom at CATO Institute to illustrate the failure of public education. “Throughout the twentieth century, the scores of preschool age children on IQ and kindergarten readiness tests have climbed steadily upward….It’s not until they move up through grade school and on to high school that their performance declines,” said Salisbury.
Also according to Salisbury, American students do better than many other countries in international comparisons of reading, math and science during fourth grade international tests ranking 92nd percentile in science, 70th in reading and 58th in math. But by eighth grade, Americans are average, and by “twelfth—having received all the benefits of an American education—they are near the bottom.”
“Question,” Coulter writes, “Is student achievement inversely proportional to time spent in U.S. public schools, or is there a correlation between poor student achievement and time spent in U.S. public schools?” “Remember how factories in the old Soviet Union stayed open year after year even though half the products they turned out were defective? U.S. public schools have become like that, which is why Democrats feel so much at home in the education business,” writes Coulter.
3. Then she attacked the central mantra of teachers—We are underpaid. Providing information from Richard Vedder of Ohio University who examined U.S. Department of Labor data, she writes that “Weekly pay for teachers in 2001 was about the same (within 10 percent) as for accountants, biological and life scientists, registered nurses, and editors and reporters, while teachers earned significantly more than social workers and artists.” In fact, the only group with higher weekly pay [of seven professions examined] were lawyers and judges.
But, Coulter argues, teachers also get summer vacations, professional days off, snow days and federal holidays off, concluding, “it appears that the only people who get better compensation than teachers for nine months’ work are professional baseball players.”
Vedder also calculated hourly wages, based on self-reported data compiled by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In this case, “Teachers earned more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, university-level foreign-language teachers, librarians, technical writers, musicians, artists, and editors and reporters.”
Adding another element to her argument, Coulter explains that teachers also get “more generous pensions that other professional workers,” have health insurance plans many of which require no contributing payment by the teachers, and have “absolute job security.”
4. …if Coulter is correct, they are also likely to be poorly qualified. Frederick Hess of the American Enterprise Institute is quoted, saying “Undergraduate education majors typically have lower SAT and ACT scores than other students.” “The lower the quality of the undergraduate institution a person attends, the more likely he or she is to wind up in the teaching profession,” he notes.
Coulter writes that in 2001, only 60 percent of education students could pass the basic teacher licensing exam in Virginia. How did Virginia respond? The state board of education lowered the requirements, Coulter writes.
According to Coulter, Massachusetts lowered the passing grade for a basic-skills test for teachers in 1998 when nearly two-thirds failed it.
5. It would also seem that not only are teachers overpaid and unqualified, in many instances, many are criminals.
“In addition to grand theft, disorderly conduct, weapons charges, and attempted murder, there were also 180 claims of sexual abuse by New York City public school teachers in 2005—all before May,” writes Coulter. She writes that professor Charol Shakeshaft analyzed data from an American Association of University Women Education Foundation survey and “estimates that between 1991-2000, roughtly 290,000 students were subjected to physical sexual abuse by teachers or other school personnel.”
While all of this seems bleak, Coulter does offer some solutions. Concluding the chapter, she writes, “There’s nothing the matter with teachers that a little less unionization and more competition couldn’t cure.” At a recent appearance in Washington, D.C. she also encouraged conservative women to enter four career fields if they really want to impact the world. Public education was one of the four.
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