Aircraft carriers are as useless as battleships in an all out war with China or Russia

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esalla

esalla

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
The point is that no carrier has been attacked since WW2, any and all American carriers could now be sunk inside of hours. So why keep building them? We could build 4 Virginia class subs or 2 Columbia class subs that have the ability to hide unlike a carrier with a perpetual bullseye on it's deck. But this is not really correct since no carrier operates alone and the real price is of the carrier group.

Navy Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, warned that hypersonic missiles were a “nightmare weapon” that threatened to make carriers obsolete.
‘Sitting ducks’

As for rising threats to the carrier, King believes hypersonic missiles are an existential threat to the Navy and urged Gilday to take the issue head on.
“Every aircraft carrier that we own can disappear in a coordinated attack,” King said. “And it is a matter of minutes.
Murmansk, [Russia], to the Norwegian Sea is 12 minutes at 6,000 miles an hour.
“So I hope you will take back a sense of urgency to the Navy and to the research capacity and to the private sector that this has to be an urgent priority [To do what LOL? No amount of “research capacity” will give you the ability to intercept hypersonic missiles.] because otherwise we are creating a vulnerability that could in itself lead to instability.”
In an interview with Defense News, King said the speed at which the Russians and Chinese are fielding the capability worries him.
“My concern is that we are a number of years away from having that capacity, and our adversaries are within a year of deployment,” he said. “And that creates a dangerous gap,
in my view. This represents a qualitative gap in offensive warfare that history tells we better figure out how to deal with, or it will mitigate our … advantage.”
King, who represents the state where half the Navy’s destroyers are produced, also said he’s concerned about the long-term viability of aircraft carriers in a world with hypersonic missiles.
“I think it does raise a question of the role of the aircraft carrier if we cannot figure a way to counter this capability,”
he said. “I don’t want indefensible, $12 billion sitting ducks out there. I’m not prepared to say the carrier is obsolete, but I say that this weapon undermines the viability of the carrier.”
 
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Markle

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The point is that no carrier has been attacked since WW2, any and all American carriers could now be sunk inside of hours. So why keep building them? We could build 4 Virginia class subs or 2 Columbia class subs that have the ability to hide unlike a carrier with a perpetual bullseye on it's deck. But this is not really correct since no carrier operates alone and the real price is of the carrier group.

Navy Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, warned that hypersonic missiles were a “nightmare weapon” that threatened to make carriers obsolete.
‘Sitting ducks’

As for rising threats to the carrier, King believes hypersonic missiles are an existential threat to the Navy and urged Gilday to take the issue head on.
“Every aircraft carrier that we own can disappear in a coordinated attack,” King said. “And it is a matter of minutes.
Murmansk, [Russia], to the Norwegian Sea is 12 minutes at 6,000 miles an hour.
“So I hope you will take back a sense of urgency to the Navy and to the research capacity and to the private sector that this has to be an urgent priority [To do what LOL? No amount of “research capacity” will give you the ability to intercept hypersonic missiles.] because otherwise we are creating a vulnerability that could in itself lead to instability.”
In an interview with Defense News, King said the speed at which the Russians and Chinese are fielding the capability worries him.
“My concern is that we are a number of years away from having that capacity, and our adversaries are within a year of deployment,” he said. “And that creates a dangerous gap,
in my view. This represents a qualitative gap in offensive warfare that history tells we better figure out how to deal with, or it will mitigate our … advantage.”
King, who represents the state where half the Navy’s destroyers are produced, also said he’s concerned about the long-term viability of aircraft carriers in a world with hypersonic missiles.
“I think it does raise a question of the role of the aircraft carrier if we cannot figure a way to counter this capability,”
he said. “I don’t want indefensible, $12 billion sitting ducks out there. I’m not prepared to say the carrier is obsolete, but I say that this weapon undermines the viability of the carrier.”
The chances of an all-out war with anyone taking out one or more of our aircraft carriers is somewhere between slim and none.

Like it or not, we are the police of the world. If you don't like it, well who do you prefer to fill the vacuum. It has worked since WW-II and we had two World Wars in twenty-five years. It has been seventy-five years since the end of WW-II. Had the allies had the military might we have today AND the fortitude to challenge Hitler, there never would have been WW-II.

We will most definitely have some dictators challenge their neighbors. Three or four nuclear subs, underwater, is not a show of force. A carrier group of the United States, bristling with weapons shows massive force.

I'm an old codger, I won't see it but I believe China will take control of our country. There won't be a war, we'll turn over the keys. Thanks to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, China has long term leases on the ports at both ends of the Panama Canal. They also have a long term lease on a major part of the Long Beach Seaport. It may be completed by now but they have been enlarging a port in the Caribbean which adjoins a 13,000 ft. runway, large enough for their largest aircraft.

I pray that I am wrong but I don't see any other eventual outcome. The Biden Crime Family will again allow China to steal and extort our intellectual property and return to their dishonest trade practices with us. They do not fear a nuclear attack, they do not fear 100 million dead. We do.
 

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What freaking war? Yeah it's true that Carriers would be sitting ducks in the unlikely event of a global navy war but Russia is our partner in the International Space Station and the presumed president has his family fortune tied up in China's economy. The real value of billion dollar Carriers seems to be in the jerkwater attitude of old Pentagon types who spend their time picking names for the future ships.
 

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esalla

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The point is that no carrier has been attacked since WW2, any and all American carriers could now be sunk inside of hours. So why keep building them? We could build 4 Virginia class subs or 2 Columbia class subs that have the ability to hide unlike a carrier with a perpetual bullseye on it's deck. But this is not really correct since no carrier operates alone and the real price is of the carrier group.

Navy Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, warned that hypersonic missiles were a “nightmare weapon” that threatened to make carriers obsolete.
‘Sitting ducks’

As for rising threats to the carrier, King believes hypersonic missiles are an existential threat to the Navy and urged Gilday to take the issue head on.
“Every aircraft carrier that we own can disappear in a coordinated attack,” King said. “And it is a matter of minutes.
Murmansk, [Russia], to the Norwegian Sea is 12 minutes at 6,000 miles an hour.
“So I hope you will take back a sense of urgency to the Navy and to the research capacity and to the private sector that this has to be an urgent priority [To do what LOL? No amount of “research capacity” will give you the ability to intercept hypersonic missiles.] because otherwise we are creating a vulnerability that could in itself lead to instability.”
In an interview with Defense News, King said the speed at which the Russians and Chinese are fielding the capability worries him.
“My concern is that we are a number of years away from having that capacity, and our adversaries are within a year of deployment,” he said. “And that creates a dangerous gap,
in my view. This represents a qualitative gap in offensive warfare that history tells we better figure out how to deal with, or it will mitigate our … advantage.”
King, who represents the state where half the Navy’s destroyers are produced, also said he’s concerned about the long-term viability of aircraft carriers in a world with hypersonic missiles.
“I think it does raise a question of the role of the aircraft carrier if we cannot figure a way to counter this capability,”
he said. “I don’t want indefensible, $12 billion sitting ducks out there. I’m not prepared to say the carrier is obsolete, but I say that this weapon undermines the viability of the carrier.”
The chances of an all-out war with anyone taking out one or more of our aircraft carriers is somewhere between slim and none.

Like it or not, we are the police of the world. If you don't like it, well who do you prefer to fill the vacuum. It has worked since WW-II and we had two World Wars in twenty-five years. It has been seventy-five years since the end of WW-II. Had the allies had the military might we have today AND the fortitude to challenge Hitler, there never would have been WW-II.

We will most definitely have some dictators challenge their neighbors. Three or four nuclear subs, underwater, is not a show of force. A carrier group of the United States, bristling with weapons shows massive force.

I'm an old codger, I won't see it but I believe China will take control of our country. There won't be a war, we'll turn over the keys. Thanks to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, China has long term leases on the ports at both ends of the Panama Canal. They also have a long term lease on a major part of the Long Beach Seaport. It may be completed by now but they have been enlarging a port in the Caribbean which adjoins a 13,000 ft. runway, large enough for their largest aircraft.

I pray that I am wrong but I don't see any other eventual outcome. The Biden Crime Family will again allow China to steal and extort our intellectual property and return to their dishonest trade practices with us. They do not fear a nuclear attack, they do not fear 100 million dead. We do.
So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China, just camel jock countries.

Not needed anymore
 
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esalla

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
Yes
Does anyone else say this, or just you?
 

Dayton3

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So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China
Why would a carrier attack Russia or China anyway? In World War Two the U.S. had a massive virtually invincible carrier force.

yet U.S. carriers rarely attacked Japan. Japan was dealt with by B-29 bomber attacks and submarine attacks on its shipping.
 
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LO
So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China
Why would a carrier attack Russia or China anyway? In World War Two the U.S. had a massive virtually invincible carrier force.

yet U.S. carriers rarely attacked Japan. Japan was dealt with by B-29 bomber attacks and submarine attacks on its shipping.
LOL the American carrier force was not invincible in WW2 kid. See the war was larger than Pearl of Midway your fav movie of all time.

Why are you being stupid on purpose?



PrincetonLight carrier45 aircraft24 October 1944Leyte Gulf108Sunk by land based Japanese bomber during the Battle of Leyte Gulf
USS St. Lo Cve63.jpgSt. LoEscort carrier28 aircraft25 October 1944Leyte Gulf143Sunk by Japanese kamikaze aircraft during the Battle off Samar
USS Saratoga (CV-3) underway, circa in 1942 (80-G-K-459).jpgSaratogaFleet carrier91 aircraft25 July 1946Bikini AtollSunk as target during Operation Crossroads
USS Wasp (CV-7) entering Hampton Roads on 26 May 1942.jpgWaspFleet carrier76 aircraft15 September 1942Southeast of San Cristobal Island193Sunk by the Japanese submarine I-19
USS Yorktown (CV-5) Jul1937.jpgYorktownFleet carrier90 aircraft7 June 1942North of Midway Island81Crippled by Japanese dive bombers and torpedo bombers during the Battle of Midway later sunk by Japanese submarine I-168 while under tow.
 

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In a all out global conflict the whole of the US Navy is pretty much useless after the first hour.

Why?

Jets, drones, and missiles, are cheaper, and the navy will be at the bottom of the sea. That includes submarines. You can't hide that much metal moving through a magnetic field for long.

As for all that electronic equipment like; naval ships, jets, drones, missiles, computers, laser sights, light weight comm gear, solar panels, etc,... That'll all be so much useless junk after the first or second EMP pulse.

Low tech like a simple 9mm Beretta, a K-Bar, candles, or vacuum tube radio, will be more useful.

*****SMILE*****


:)
 

Daryl Hunt

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View attachment 419214

In a all out global conflict the whole of the US Navy is pretty much useless after the first hour.

Why?

Jets, drones, and missiles, are cheaper, and the navy will be at the bottom of the sea. That includes submarines. You can't hide that much metal moving through a magnetic field for long.

As for all that electronic equipment like; naval ships, jets, drones, missiles, computers, laser sights, light weight comm gear, solar panels, etc,... That'll all be so much useless junk after the first or second EMP pulse.

Low tech like a simple 9mm Beretta, a K-Bar, candles, or vacuum tube radio, will be more useful.

*****SMILE*****


:)
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones,” Einstein said.
 

Markle

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So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China, just camel jock countries.

Not needed anymore
They, and our other military might, is why there is no chance of an all-out war. As a result of World War-II, we are the leaders of the free world. As such we are the police of the world. If you don't think we should be the police of the world, specifically, who would better fill the void?
 
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esalla

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View attachment 419214

In a all out global conflict the whole of the US Navy is pretty much useless after the first hour.

Why?

Jets, drones, and missiles, are cheaper, and the navy will be at the bottom of the sea. That includes submarines. You can't hide that much metal moving through a magnetic field for long.

As for all that electronic equipment like; naval ships, jets, drones, missiles, computers, laser sights, light weight comm gear, solar panels, etc,... That'll all be so much useless junk after the first or second EMP pulse.

Low tech like a simple 9mm Beretta, a K-Bar, candles, or vacuum tube radio, will be more useful.

*****SMILE*****


:)
No one mentioned all out nuclear war. The fact is that if a carrier merely defends Taiwan against attack and fires upon chinese aircraft that the carrier will be sunk before it's own aircraft can land. Since the USA knows this the carrier can not be used for this. SO THE CARRIER IS USELESS

This is not really rocket science
 
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esalla

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So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China, just camel jock countries.

Not needed anymore
They, and our other military might, is why there is no chance of an all-out war. As a result of World War-II, we are the leaders of the free world. As such we are the police of the world. If you don't think we should be the police of the world, specifically, who would better fill the void?
I think little people like you should serve as the police of the world yourself instead of requiring others to do so

 

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
Yes
Does anyone else say this, or just you?
The IJN began putting radar on ships in 1942. Yamato had type 21 air and sea search radar installed in July 1943, Musashi had Type 22 and Type 13 radars installed in April of 1944. CV Junyo had Type 21 radar installed July 1942. CA Haguro had a Type 13 radar installed June 1944. CA Mogami had Type 21 radar installed in September 1942. CL Oyodo had a Type 22 radar installed in March 1944. That's just a few ships picked at random. The information is from the tabular ship movements posted on combinedfleet.com.
 
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esalla

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
Yes
Does anyone else say this, or just you?
The IJN began putting radar on ships in 1942. Yamato had type 21 air and sea search radar installed in July 1943, Musashi had Type 22 and Type 13 radars installed in April of 1944. CV Junyo had Type 21 radar installed July 1942. CA Haguro had a Type 13 radar installed June 1944. CA Mogami had Type 21 radar installed in September 1942. CL Oyodo had a Type 22 radar installed in March 1944. That's just a few ships picked at random. The information is from the tabular ship movements posted on combinedfleet.com.
Did any of them work, and if so what was the maximum range and resolution
 

AZrailwhale

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
Yes
Does anyone else say this, or just you?
The IJN began putting radar on ships in 1942. Yamato had type 21 air and sea search radar installed in July 1943, Musashi had Type 22 and Type 13 radars installed in April of 1944. CV Junyo had Type 21 radar installed July 1942. CA Haguro had a Type 13 radar installed June 1944. CA Mogami had Type 21 radar installed in September 1942. CL Oyodo had a Type 22 radar installed in March 1944. That's just a few ships picked at random. The information is from the tabular ship movements posted on combinedfleet.com.
Did any of them work, and if so what was the maximum range and resolution
Do your own research, they were at least as good as early to mid war USN and RN radars. The IJN didn't have technological problems with radar, they had doctrinal problems with it as well as production problems.
 
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esalla

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Actually kid a carrier could appear out of no where in WW2 because radar and satellite tech did not exist.
Rudimentary radar existed and saved England. It was new and many in charge did not trust the results, what they were seeing on their own screens.

Satellites you are right about.
Did the Japs have radar at Leyte Gulf
Yes
Does anyone else say this, or just you?
The IJN began putting radar on ships in 1942. Yamato had type 21 air and sea search radar installed in July 1943, Musashi had Type 22 and Type 13 radars installed in April of 1944. CV Junyo had Type 21 radar installed July 1942. CA Haguro had a Type 13 radar installed June 1944. CA Mogami had Type 21 radar installed in September 1942. CL Oyodo had a Type 22 radar installed in March 1944. That's just a few ships picked at random. The information is from the tabular ship movements posted on combinedfleet.com.
Did any of them work, and if so what was the maximum range and resolution
Do your own research, they were at least as good as early to mid war USN and RN radars. The IJN didn't have technological problems with radar, they had doctrinal problems with it as well as production problems.
Radar was not entirely consequential in WW2, the British used it first and their huge land based units could see 80 miles. LOL what did that radar do to stop the buzz bombs.

Nothing because radar meant nothing in WW2, shit the Jap invasion of Pearl was seen on radar and no one gave a shit because no one understood how it worked
 

Dayton3

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View attachment 419214

In a all out global conflict the whole of the US Navy is pretty much useless after the first hour.

Why?

Jets, drones, and missiles, are cheaper, and the navy will be at the bottom of the sea. That includes submarines. You can't hide that much metal moving through a magnetic field for long.

As for all that electronic equipment like; naval ships, jets, drones, missiles, computers, laser sights, light weight comm gear, solar panels, etc,... That'll all be so much useless junk after the first or second EMP pulse.

Low tech like a simple 9mm Beretta, a K-Bar, candles, or vacuum tube radio, will be more useful.

*****SMILE*****


:)
You sound like the fool who posted just above you. An "all out global conflict" is not necessarily a nuclear war.
 

Dayton3

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So why do we need carriers if there is no chance of war? The fact is that no carrier can ever attack Russia or China, just camel jock countries.

Not needed anymore
They, and our other military might, is why there is no chance of an all-out war. As a result of World War-II, we are the leaders of the free world. As such we are the police of the world. If you don't think we should be the police of the world, specifically, who would better fill the void?
I think little people like you should serve as the police of the world yourself instead of requiring others to do so

Why do make such a big deal about the injuries to Americans who VOLUNTEERED to serve in the military? Knowing full well what price they might have to pay.
 

Dayton3

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View attachment 419214

In a all out global conflict the whole of the US Navy is pretty much useless after the first hour.

Why?

Jets, drones, and missiles, are cheaper, and the navy will be at the bottom of the sea. That includes submarines. You can't hide that much metal moving through a magnetic field for long.

As for all that electronic equipment like; naval ships, jets, drones, missiles, computers, laser sights, light weight comm gear, solar panels, etc,... That'll all be so much useless junk after the first or second EMP pulse.

Low tech like a simple 9mm Beretta, a K-Bar, candles, or vacuum tube radio, will be more useful.

*****SMILE*****


:)
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones,” Einstein said.
Einstein knew nothing about strategy, weapons or foreign policy.
 

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