AGW Meets the Bologna Detection Test

[Wuwei]

That's not a subsidy "for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production"
I insist we remove all tax expenditures for ethanol and that we remove the ethanol blending mandate. Today.

I agree. Ethanol subsidies benefit absolutely nobody but corn farmers.

I also think we should eliminate oil subsidies.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Which science? Mann and the fake hockey stick, the single tree ring and his merging of proxy and instrument data?

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense. You're supposed to be trying to show you're not a conspiracy cultist, remember?

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares? Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science? You need to understand that we're not like you. We don't take orders from charismatic cult leaders. The science matters, not the person or the politics.

I'm not afraid of unreliable and more expensive "green energy". Buy all you want.

I'd prefer not to waste tax dollars on it or damage our economy or electrical grid because of it.

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning. Apparently, it's "reason" when you do it, "fear" when someone else does the same thing.

Liberals want to give the government more power and more money. They think global warming...err...climate change...err...extreme weather is the best way to advance their cause. Billions thrown at climate science has bought them many scientists willing to lie and cheat

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense.

Pointing out Mann's bullshit isn't nonsense.

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares?

I do. No answer? LOL!

Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science?

Can't you defend his part of the science?

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning.

Nuclear is reliable and actually useful without stressing the grid.

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

Pointing out the big government corruption of the science doesn't help your cause.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

It's called a subsidy.
What Are the Major Federal Government Subsidies?

Writing off a legitimate business expense is not a subsidy.

Amortization is a legitimate business expense, but the gov subsidies go way beyond just that.

but the gov subsidies go way beyond just that

Most of the "subsidies" that the greens whine about are typical business expense write offs, not subsidies for oil, gas and coal.

As your link showed, by far the biggest one was a green subsidy, ethanol. LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's not a subsidy "for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production"
I insist we remove all tax expenditures for ethanol and that we remove the ethanol blending mandate. Today.

I agree. Ethanol subsidies benefit absolutely nobody but corn farmers.

I also think we should eliminate oil subsidies.

I also think we should eliminate oil subsidies.

Great. Which ones? Be specific.

 

[Old Rocks]

Which science? Mann and the fake hockey stick, the single tree ring and his merging of proxy and instrument data?

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense. You're supposed to be trying to show you're not a conspiracy cultist, remember?

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares? Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science? You need to understand that we're not like you. We don't take orders from charismatic cult leaders. The science matters, not the person or the politics.

I'm not afraid of unreliable and more expensive "green energy". Buy all you want.

I'd prefer not to waste tax dollars on it or damage our economy or electrical grid because of it.

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning. Apparently, it's "reason" when you do it, "fear" when someone else does the same thing.

Liberals want to give the government more power and more money. They think global warming...err...climate change...err...extreme weather is the best way to advance their cause. Billions thrown at climate science has bought them many scientists willing to lie and cheat

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense.

Pointing out Mann's bullshit isn't nonsense.

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares?

I do. No answer? LOL!

Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science?

Can't you defend his part of the science?

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning.

Nuclear is reliable and actually useful without stressing the grid.

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

Pointing out the big government corruption of the science doesn't help your cause.

More than a dozen independent studies have confirmed the Mann graph. That you wish to lie about that is a sad comment on your knowledge and ethics.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Which science? Mann and the fake hockey stick, the single tree ring and his merging of proxy and instrument data?

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense. You're supposed to be trying to show you're not a conspiracy cultist, remember?

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares? Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science? You need to understand that we're not like you. We don't take orders from charismatic cult leaders. The science matters, not the person or the politics.

I'm not afraid of unreliable and more expensive "green energy". Buy all you want.

I'd prefer not to waste tax dollars on it or damage our economy or electrical grid because of it.

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning. Apparently, it's "reason" when you do it, "fear" when someone else does the same thing.

Liberals want to give the government more power and more money. They think global warming...err...climate change...err...extreme weather is the best way to advance their cause. Billions thrown at climate science has bought them many scientists willing to lie and cheat

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense.

Pointing out Mann's bullshit isn't nonsense.

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares?

I do. No answer? LOL!

Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science?

Can't you defend his part of the science?

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning.

Nuclear is reliable and actually useful without stressing the grid.

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

Pointing out the big government corruption of the science doesn't help your cause.

More than a dozen independent studies have confirmed the Mann graph. That you wish to lie about that is a sad comment on your knowledge and ethics.

More than a dozen independent studies have confirmed the Mann graph.

A dozen independent studies eliminated the MWP and the LIA?

Maybe you know how much money Mann received when he won the Nobel Prize?

 

[Wuwei]

Most of the "subsidies" that the greens whine about are typical business expense write offs, not subsidies for oil, gas and coal.

Nope. The subsidies go well beyond that.

As your link showed, by far the biggest one was a green subsidy, ethanol. LOL!

I agree corn ethanol is the worst technology and benefits only corn farmers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Most of the "subsidies" that the greens whine about are typical business expense write offs, not subsidies for oil, gas and coal.

Nope. The subsidies go well beyond that.

As your link showed, by far the biggest one was a green subsidy, ethanol. LOL!

I agree corn ethanol is the worst technology and benefits only corn farmers.

The subsidies go well beyond that.

Like what?

 

[Wuwei]

I also think we should eliminate oil subsidies.

Great. Which ones? Be specific.

These:

• Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.
• Intangible Drilling Costs - $8.9 billion.
• Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.
• Percentage Depletion Allowance - $4.327 billion.
• Short Amortization for Refinery Equipment Deductions - $2.3 billion.
• Geological and Geophysical Costs Tax Credit - $698 million.
• Natural Gas Distribution Lines - $500 million.
• Ultradeepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and other Petroleum Resources R&D - $230 million.
• Passive Loss Exemption - $105 million.
• Unconventional Fossil Technology Program - $100 million.
• Domestic Manufacturing Deduction
• Credits for Oil and Gas from Marginal Wells
• Other subsidies - $161 million.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I also think we should eliminate oil subsidies.

Great. Which ones? Be specific.

These:

• Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.
• Intangible Drilling Costs - $8.9 billion.
• Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.
• Percentage Depletion Allowance - $4.327 billion.
• Short Amortization for Refinery Equipment Deductions - $2.3 billion.
• Geological and Geophysical Costs Tax Credit - $698 million.
• Natural Gas Distribution Lines - $500 million.
• Ultradeepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and other Petroleum Resources R&D - $230 million.
• Passive Loss Exemption - $105 million.
• Unconventional Fossil Technology Program - $100 million.
• Domestic Manufacturing Deduction
• Credits for Oil and Gas from Marginal Wells
• Other subsidies - $161 million.

Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.

If this is supposed to be the incentive to drill offshore, when oil was $18/bbl, okay.

All the rest sound like typical business expenses for oil and gas

 

[Wuwei]

All the rest sound like typical business expenses for oil and gas

I suppose they can "sound like" anything you want. Not me.
Typical businesses don't have the sort of industrial makeup as oil and gas companies, so the subsidies oil and gas get aren't typical. I prefer that the government reduce costs by these unnecessary expenditures. I assume you don't.

Why do you think the list I gave are not subsidies. Be specific.

 

[Wuwei]

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet. The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

Speaking of subsidies....
Nuclear Power: Still Not Viable without Subsidies

Government subsidies to the nuclear power industry over the past fifty years have been so large in proportion to the value of the energy produced that in some cases it would have cost taxpayers less to simply buy kilowatts on the open market and give them away, according to a February 2011 report by the Union of Concerned Scientists.​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All the rest sound like typical business expenses for oil and gas

I suppose they can "sound like" anything you want. Not me.
Typical businesses don't have the sort of industrial makeup as oil and gas companies, so the subsidies oil and gas get aren't typical. I prefer that the government reduce costs by these unnecessary expenditures. I assume you don't.

Why do you think the list I gave are not subsidies. Be specific.

Typical businesses don't have the sort of industrial makeup as oil and gas companies

That's why their typical business expenses sound scary to liberals.

I prefer that the government reduce costs by these unnecessary expenditures.

Which business expenses shouldn't be deductible for oil and gas companies? Why?

Why do you think the list I gave are not subsidies

Because writing off a business expense isn't a subsidy.

 

[Wuwei]

That's why their typical business expenses sound scary to liberals.

Cut the juvenile crap.

Which business expenses shouldn't be deductible for oil and gas companies? Why?

Because writing off a business expense isn't a subsidy.

All business expenses should be handled equally by all companies.

Look, the use of subsidies is not business expense. Read about the difference between subsidies and business expenses in detail. I gave references as a start. If they were business expenses they wouldn't be called subsidies.

I am not interested in carrying on an argument with someone who is using gut feel to make points that he is only guessing at. I for one don't want the government to continue to pay subsidies for mature industries that can make it on their own.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's why their typical business expenses sound scary to liberals.

Cut the juvenile crap.

Which business expenses shouldn't be deductible for oil and gas companies? Why?

Because writing off a business expense isn't a subsidy.

All business expenses should be handled equally by all companies.

Look, the use of subsidies is not business expense. Read about the difference between subsidies and business expenses in detail. I gave references as a start. If they were business expenses they wouldn't be called subsidies.

I am not interested in carrying on an argument with someone who is using gut feel to make points that he is only guessing at. I for one don't want the government to continue to pay subsidies for mature industries that can make it on their own.

If they were business expenses they wouldn't be called subsidies.

They'd be called subsidies by people who don't know what a subsidy is and by people who don't like oil.

All those you listed, except ethanol and royalty relief were typical business expenses.

 

[Wuwei]

They'd be called subsidies by people who don't know what a subsidy is and by people who don't like oil.

Nope. They are called business expenses by people who want to keep subsidies for oil.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They'd be called subsidies by people who don't know what a subsidy is and by people who don't like oil.

Nope. They are called business expenses by people who want to keep subsidies for oil.

Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.

• Intangible Drilling Costs - $8.9 billion.

• Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.

• Percentage Depletion Allowance - $4.327 billion.

• Short Amortization for Refinery Equipment Deductions - $2.3 billion.

• Geological and Geophysical Costs Tax Credit - $698 million.

• Natural Gas Distribution Lines - $500 million.

• Ultradeepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and other Petroleum Resources R&D - $230 million.

• Passive Loss Exemption - $105 million.

• Unconventional Fossil Technology Program - $100 million.

• Domestic Manufacturing Deduction

• Credits for Oil and Gas from Marginal Wells

• Other subsidies - $161 million.

Which ones aren't typical business expenses? Why?

 

[Wuwei]

Clearly define those terms please.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Clearly define those terms please.

Typical business expenses: Business expenses incurred in the normal operations of a typical oil and gas company.

Now can you define subsidy please?

 

[Wuwei]

Typical business expenses: Business expenses incurred in the normal operations of a typical oil and gas company.

I mean item by item.