"after America, There Is No Place To Go"

[TemplarKormac]

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. .

are you talking Iran or USA?? If USA can you present best example?

US.

Liberals hold the religious view that it is evil to exercise one's right to choose one's associations so they've co-opted the power of government to shove their religious view down everyone's throat. If you're a baker who doesn't want to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding, too bad, you must comply with the liberal religious view and associate with people you prefer not to associate with.

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

William F.Buckley Jr.

It isn't that liberals are shocked and offended THAT there are other views, it's that we're shocked and offended by how STUPID and SELFISH right wing views are!

In other words, you're bigoted.

Carry on.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Tanker yelling to the man : "You are the problem, not the solution."

Well then, why did the tanker stop? It takes only one person to start a revolution.

 

[Plasmaball]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Tanker yelling to the man : "You are the problem, not the solution."

Well then, why did the tanker stop? It takes only one person to start a revolution.

that isnt you

 

[TemplarKormac]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Tanker yelling to the man : "You are the problem, not the solution."

Well then, why did the tanker stop? It takes only one person to start a revolution.

that isnt you

Nor is it you. You're simply a loudmouth. People would sweat profusely while being assaulted with all of that hot air.

 

[Plasmaball]

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Tanker yelling to the man : "You are the problem, not the solution."

Well then, why did the tanker stop? It takes only one person to start a revolution.

that isnt you

Nor is it you. You're simply a loudmouth. People would sweat profusely while being assaulted with all of that hot air.

you shouldnt talk about sweating, you are a virgin to it

 

[Derideo_Te]

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. .

are you talking Iran or USA?? If USA can you present best example?

US.

Liberals hold the religious view that it is evil to exercise one's right to choose one's associations so they've co-opted the power of government to shove their religious view down everyone's throat. If you're a baker who doesn't want to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding, too bad, you must comply with the liberal religious view and associate with people you prefer not to associate with.

The usual ignorant twaddle from Pastor Rikurzhen blaming "evil libruls" for laws that have been around since the 1960's and 70's. Of course he ignores the facts that his beloved conservatives could have "repealed" these laws many times over since then thereby making them equally complicit.

Keep on preaching your perverted "Gospel of Conservatism" but no one with any sense is buying your "liberal religion" BS because you have zero credibility.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

Coming from a fucking moron who believes any government is by definition Socialism, that means a lot

 

[Derideo_Te]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

Coming from a fucking moron who believes any government is by definition Socialism, that means a lot

Ironic that you cannot refute a single statement and are forced to use vulgarities as a personal attack exposes the utter vacuousness of your position. But you are and always will be part of the problem for those very reasons. Your anger and hatred coupled with your inability to comprehend are your problem, not mine.

 

[deltex1]

Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian, now in her 80's, who lived and remembers living under the Third Reich in the years leading up to WWII. Subsequently a naturalized American citizen she has spent the larger part of her life speaking on socialism and how Hitler managed to come to power, slowly, by fits and starts, but relentlessly.

The following is posted in its entirety as its source is contained strictly in emails and therefore is not a copyright violation. Snopes and other fact checking groups have researched its origin and have not been able to locate an original source. It does strongly follow the context of what Werthmann would say.

For those who don't wish to read the whole long thing, the money paragraph is here:

"Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria .Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom."

For the purpose of this discussion, could some or all of this happen in the USA? Is some or all of it happening already? At an even slower pace that what Werthmann describes in Austria?

Or can we be complacent and confident that this relates to us in no way?

America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away
By: Kitty Werthmann

What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or will ever read in history books.
I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote.. I've never read that in any American publications. Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.

In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan interest rates.

Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food.. Not that they didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need.. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people - about 30 daily.

The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna , Linz , and Graz were destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to let them decide what kind of government they wanted.

We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany , where Hitler had been in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group -- Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria . We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.

We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed.

After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.

Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been required to give up for marriage.

Hitler Targets Education - Eliminates Religious Instruction for Children:
Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education.

Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail. The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it.. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.

My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.

Equal Rights Hits Home:
In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work, you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.
Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.

Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:
When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers. You could take your children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government. The state raised a whole generation of children.. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.

Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under Government Controls:
Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.
We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

"Mercy Killing" Redefined:
In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps . The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded.

When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.

As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

The Final Steps - Gun Laws:
Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

No more freedom of speech.
Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria .Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.

After World War II, Russian troops occupied Austria. Women were raped, preteen to elderly. The press never wrote about this either. When the Soviets left in 1955, they took everything that they could, dismantling whole factories in the process. They sawed down whole orchards of fruit, and what they couldn't destroy, they burned. We called it The Burned Earth. Most of the population barricaded themselves in their houses. Women hid in their cellars for 6 weeks as the troops mobilized. Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians. This is an eye witness account.

"It's true..those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away

"After America , There is No Place to Go"​

The way to stay free is to point out the moral corruption of the left and constantly measure the failure of their policies. Obama is their example of perfection. Do I need to say more?

 

[Foxfyre]

Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian, now in her 80's, who lived and remembers living under the Third Reich in the years leading up to WWII. Subsequently a naturalized American citizen she has spent the larger part of her life speaking on socialism and how Hitler managed to come to power, slowly, by fits and starts, but relentlessly.

The following is posted in its entirety as its source is contained strictly in emails and therefore is not a copyright violation. Snopes and other fact checking groups have researched its origin and have not been able to locate an original source. It does strongly follow the context of what Werthmann would say.

For those who don't wish to read the whole long thing, the money paragraph is here:

"Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria .Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom."

For the purpose of this discussion, could some or all of this happen in the USA? Is some or all of it happening already? At an even slower pace that what Werthmann describes in Austria?

Or can we be complacent and confident that this relates to us in no way?

America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away
By: Kitty Werthmann

What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or will ever read in history books.
I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote.. I've never read that in any American publications. Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.

In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan interest rates.

Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food.. Not that they didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need.. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people - about 30 daily.

The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna , Linz , and Graz were destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to let them decide what kind of government they wanted.

We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany , where Hitler had been in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group -- Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria . We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.

We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed.

After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.

Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been required to give up for marriage.

Hitler Targets Education - Eliminates Religious Instruction for Children:
Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education.

Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail. The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it.. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.

My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.

Equal Rights Hits Home:
In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work, you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.
Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.

Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:
When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers. You could take your children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government. The state raised a whole generation of children.. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.

Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under Government Controls:
Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.
We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

"Mercy Killing" Redefined:
In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps . The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded.

When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.

As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

The Final Steps - Gun Laws:
Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

No more freedom of speech.
Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria .Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.

After World War II, Russian troops occupied Austria. Women were raped, preteen to elderly. The press never wrote about this either. When the Soviets left in 1955, they took everything that they could, dismantling whole factories in the process. They sawed down whole orchards of fruit, and what they couldn't destroy, they burned. We called it The Burned Earth. Most of the population barricaded themselves in their houses. Women hid in their cellars for 6 weeks as the troops mobilized. Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians. This is an eye witness account.

"It's true..those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away

"After America , There is No Place to Go"​

The way to stay free is to point out the moral corruption of the left and constantly measure the failure of their policies. Obama is their example of perfection. Do I need to say more?

Thank you for bringing the thread back on topic. I much appreciate that. Some of our friends here, mostly those on the left it appears, continue to fail to grasp the concept offered in the OP and opportunity to discuss whether or not it would be possible for Americans to give up enough liberties to wind up in the predicament Austria found itself. And if they did, would they do so willingly as the Austrians did.

Rather than grasp and discuss the concept--something in my experience leftists are mostly incapable of doing--they object to the writer of the OP, object to the OP, object to others on the thread, insist that the OP is a bogus account, nitpick the history as flawed, and engage in schoolyard bullying and insults, yadda yadda. And all because they seem to be offended that it seems to cast liberals in a bad light, . Even after insisting all these years that Hitler was on the right side of the spectrum.

But setting that aside. . . .

Responding to your point and for those who are able to identify and discuss a concept, and bringing the topic back on tract, I don't know whether I agree that Obama is their example of perfection. But I think they did welcome him as their messiah, savior, rescuer of liberalism from what they saw as evil conservatism Bush 43 style plus as a black man, he symbolized the nobleness and virtue of liberalism.. And once a hero is adopted, it is very difficult to eat crow and admit that one's faith and loyalty and admiration is misguided if one even concludes that it was.

But it is for certain, whether it comes from the left or the right, the gradual transfer of individual liberties to control of the central government is what gave Hitler the power to wreck such havoc. Could it happen here? I say yes it could if we value ideology over liberty or if we choose to accept each little encroachment on our liberties instead of emphatically pushing back.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

Coming from a fucking moron who believes any government is by definition Socialism, that means a lot

Ironic that you cannot refute a single statement and are forced to use vulgarities as a personal attack exposes the utter vacuousness of your position. But you are and always will be part of the problem for those very reasons. Your anger and hatred coupled with your inability to comprehend are your problem, not mine.

Sometimes, when talking to people who are just plain fucking stupid and refuse to learn it's best to say it outright: you're a fucking moron

 

[Derideo_Te]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

Coming from a fucking moron who believes any government is by definition Socialism, that means a lot

Ironic that you cannot refute a single statement and are forced to use vulgarities as a personal attack exposes the utter vacuousness of your position. But you are and always will be part of the problem for those very reasons. Your anger and hatred coupled with your inability to comprehend are your problem, not mine.

Sometimes, when talking to people who are just plain fucking stupid and refuse to learn it's best to say it outright: you're a fucking moron

Since you provide nothing of any value to this thread and actually derailing it with your mindless vulgarities you have earned yourself a one way ticket to Cyberia.

[People you ignore] *click* [Member to Ignore] "CrusaderFrank" [Save Changes] *click*

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't suppose it would do any good to once again ask those who only want to hurl insults at each other to take those squabbles elsewhere? Is there no civility left on USMB? I have no more right to demand respect than anybody else does, but is there no sense of propriety left? There are too few of us left who enjoy discussing a concept to overcome those who seem to get their jollies sniping at each other?

Going back to my previous post, and one more time, the OP is NOT comparing the USA to Nazi Germany. The OP is describing a process by which people are stripped of their power of self determination and brain washed or lulled into complacency by which they accept that as normal.

It has taken decades, not five years, for the USA to gradually move from liberty to submission to a central government that dictates our rights, our privileges, our conduct in society. It hasn't been via any sweeping change or policy, but by a thousand tiny cuts, each which seemed inconsequential at the time in the grand scheme of things.

Will we continue down that path until we are no longer America, land of the free, home of the brave? Is it too late to turn it around?

 

[Pennywise]

I don't suppose it would do any good to once again ask those who only want to hurl insults at each other to take those squabbles elsewhere? Is there no civility left on USMB? I have no more right to demand respect than anybody else does, but is there no sense of propriety left? There are too few of us left who enjoy discussing a concept to overcome those who seem to get their jollies sniping at each other?

Going back to my previous post, and one more time, the OP is NOT comparing the USA to Nazi Germany. The OP is describing a process by which people are stripped of their power of self determination and brain washed or lulled into complacency by which they accept that as normal.

It has taken decades, not five years, for the USA to gradually move from liberty to submission to a central government that dictates our rights, our privileges, our conduct in society. It hasn't been via any sweeping change or policy, but by a thousand tiny cuts, each which seemed inconsequential at the time in the grand scheme of things.

Will we continue down that path until we are no longer America, land of the free, home of the brave? Is it too late to turn it around?

It's likely too late. It's not all on Obama, not by a long shot, but the 2012 election pretty much sealed our fate.

Apathy, ignorance and stupidity of the masses is to blame, with a hearty portion of that due to government schools and government in general.

Stick a fork in America. We are like a Manson family crime scene photo.

 

[Unkotare]

Stick a fork in America. We are like a Manson family crime scene photo.

Then what the fuck are you still doing here? GTFO now, you pessimistic pussy.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't suppose it would do any good to once again ask those who only want to hurl insults at each other to take those squabbles elsewhere? Is there no civility left on USMB? I have no more right to demand respect than anybody else does, but is there no sense of propriety left? There are too few of us left who enjoy discussing a concept to overcome those who seem to get their jollies sniping at each other?

Going back to my previous post, and one more time, the OP is NOT comparing the USA to Nazi Germany. The OP is describing a process by which people are stripped of their power of self determination and brain washed or lulled into complacency by which they accept that as normal.

It has taken decades, not five years, for the USA to gradually move from liberty to submission to a central government that dictates our rights, our privileges, our conduct in society. It hasn't been via any sweeping change or policy, but by a thousand tiny cuts, each which seemed inconsequential at the time in the grand scheme of things.

Will we continue down that path until we are no longer America, land of the free, home of the brave? Is it too late to turn it around?

It's likely too late. It's not all on Obama, not by a long shot, but the 2012 election pretty much sealed our fate.

Apathy, ignorance and stupidity of the masses is to blame, with a hearty portion of that due to government schools and government in general.

Stick a fork in America. We are like a Manson family crime scene photo.

There is the pragmatic side of me who has observed all this happening for a very long time now that agrees with your pessimism. Once government has made the majority of us dependent on that government, that government can do any damn thing to us that it decides to do. The only thing creating any restraint is the fact that a complacent and cooperative people is so much easier and more pleasant and profitable to exploit than is one controlled at gunpoint.

You are right that Obama is not the problem. He is the result of the problem.


Then there is the optimist side of me that sees those who still understand. They are posting on these message boards, writing letters to the editor, calling in to talk shows, attending town meetings, and showing up at the tax reformers and Tea Party rallies. And that gives me hope.

I do believe this is the last generation with any hope to turn it around though.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Its common to feel less optimistic the older you get. Now that some of you are older you dont like the scary future.

Every generation is like that. It just feels different because now its your turn

 

[Pennywise]

Stick a fork in America. We are like a Manson family crime scene photo.

Then what the fuck are you still doing here? GTFO now, you pessimistic pussy.

Because like the thread title says, there's nowhere else to go.

Now go fuck your goat, you mongrel.

 

[Pennywise]

I don't suppose it would do any good to once again ask those who only want to hurl insults at each other to take those squabbles elsewhere? Is there no civility left on USMB? I have no more right to demand respect than anybody else does, but is there no sense of propriety left? There are too few of us left who enjoy discussing a concept to overcome those who seem to get their jollies sniping at each other?

Going back to my previous post, and one more time, the OP is NOT comparing the USA to Nazi Germany. The OP is describing a process by which people are stripped of their power of self determination and brain washed or lulled into complacency by which they accept that as normal.

It has taken decades, not five years, for the USA to gradually move from liberty to submission to a central government that dictates our rights, our privileges, our conduct in society. It hasn't been via any sweeping change or policy, but by a thousand tiny cuts, each which seemed inconsequential at the time in the grand scheme of things.

Will we continue down that path until we are no longer America, land of the free, home of the brave? Is it too late to turn it around?

It's likely too late. It's not all on Obama, not by a long shot, but the 2012 election pretty much sealed our fate.

Apathy, ignorance and stupidity of the masses is to blame, with a hearty portion of that due to government schools and government in general.

Stick a fork in America. We are like a Manson family crime scene photo.

There is the pragmatic side of me who has observed all this happening for a very long time now that agrees with your pessimism. Once government has made the majority of us dependent on that government, that government can do any damn thing to us that it decides to do. The only thing creating any restraint is the fact that a complacent and cooperative people is so much easier and more pleasant and profitable to exploit than is one controlled at gunpoint.

You are right that Obama is not the problem. He is the result of the problem.


Then there is the optimist side of me that sees those who still understand. They are posting on these message boards, writing letters to the editor, calling in to talk shows, attending town meetings, and showing up at the tax reformers and Tea Party rallies. And that gives me hope.

I do believe this is the last generation with any hope to turn it around though.

There is such a dramatic sea change that has to take place within the populace that your optimism is not likely to bear fruit. It will take a leader who refuses to play by the party games and that very attribute will make it difficult to get the nomination.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

The ones who say Americans are the enemy are Rachel Maddow speaking of the Tea Party, Barack Obama speaking of the middle class, Nancy Pelosi speaking of Republicans, and rdean speaking of Sarah Palin.