Affirmative Action

[ClosedCaption]

Yeah because you're a Troll Yurt. Go read, of course that's asking too much of you, right?

Read my Avatar. Its not about me

 

[ClosedCaption]

Nice double talk to avoid admitting something there, slick.

So you can tell me that there is not a single person out there that was denied admission to a school because someone else using thier race as a qualifier got in due to an increased criteria score?

Because if thats the case, then yes, AA does not discriminate. If that is not the case, then it does discriminate, and a white male is the most likely victim of said discrimination.

Avoid admitting what? Some guy "FEELS" that he was passed over by some black person and what you're gonna hold his hand until the feelings go away. The only way that can be true is if that person KNEW. In that case he has a point. If he cant, its like believing the kid who loses a foot race because he claims his shoes were untied.

FACT: white males have been passed over, otherwise, AA never worked.

you do realize uni's and colleges have a set admittance, they don't accept more people because of AA, they do NOT accept in order to make AA work

And if AA didnt exist in the first EVERYONE else would still be passed up for white males. I know which you prefer, I prefer more opportunity for all people not just white GUYS

 

[OriginalShroom]

So the OP is finally admiting that the Government's Liberal programs are designed to discriminate against White Men?

That's a good thing.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
What this proves is a number of things:

1. AA doesn't discriminate against whites
2. AA isn't for blacks only
3. AA doesn't "destroy" the black community because the white women community Is just fine
4. You can finally stop pretending Affirmative Action is for blacks only. The 2nd group that benefits the most: Asian

HAHAHA. uranidiot. It doesn't prove any of those things.

What no one can argue is that AA violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.

 

[martybegan]

He should feel like he doesn't know he was "passed up for someone else" and using that is a excuse for failure, maybe? Is that even possible? Yeah

I didn't say women aren't effected? Nice deflect tho

Good for Asian...Shame on blacks

Got it...its always different for blacks but but but...it has NOTHING to do with racism. Just those blacks

Nice double talk to avoid admitting something there, slick.

So you can tell me that there is not a single person out there that was denied admission to a school because someone else using thier race as a qualifier got in due to an increased criteria score?

Because if thats the case, then yes, AA does not discriminate. If that is not the case, then it does discriminate, and a white male is the most likely victim of said discrimination.

Avoid admitting what? Some guy "FEELS" that he was passed over by some black person and what you're gonna hold his hand until the feelings go away. The only way that can be true is if that person KNEW. In that case he has a point. If he cant, its like believing the kid who loses a foot race because he claims his shoes were untied.

And if you are using the logic that because AA is not perfect than it should be shelved then you can also list all the other unperfect things you want to do away with that don't involve blacks.

College admissions are not Schrodinger's cat, where the status is undetermined until there is a qualified observer. The very mechanism of AA coupled with the limited slots to big time colleges means SOMEONE had to be passed over to allow the AA recipient in. The fact you cant even admit this shows that you cant face the reality of a program you support, namely someone gets shafted.

I guess its because the person that gets shafted comes from a group you don't like, that somehow makes it OK.

All I want to hear from an AA supporter is admission that it screws someone else over to give someone else an advantage.

 

[martybegan]

Avoid admitting what? Some guy "FEELS" that he was passed over by some black person and what you're gonna hold his hand until the feelings go away. The only way that can be true is if that person KNEW. In that case he has a point. If he cant, its like believing the kid who loses a foot race because he claims his shoes were untied.

FACT: white males have been passed over, otherwise, AA never worked.

you do realize uni's and colleges have a set admittance, they don't accept more people because of AA, they do NOT accept in order to make AA work

And if AA didnt exist in the first EVERYONE else would still be passed up for white males. I know which you prefer, I prefer more opportunity for all people not just white GUYS

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

/thread.

 

[ClosedCaption]

FACT: white males have been passed over, otherwise, AA never worked.

you do realize uni's and colleges have a set admittance, they don't accept more people because of AA, they do NOT accept in order to make AA work

And if AA didnt exist in the first EVERYONE else would still be passed up for white males. I know which you prefer, I prefer more opportunity for all people not just white GUYS

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

/thread.

King was well aware of the arguments used against affirmative action policies. As far back as 1964, he was writing in Why We Can't Wait: "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

King supported affirmative action";type programs because he never confused the dream with American reality. As he put it, "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis (quoted in Let the Trumpet Sound, by Stephen Oates).

You want to quote King huh? Now I bet you don't want to anymore lol

 

[squeeze berry]

CC: why do you think AA is necessary now? in your own words. it has already worked, let us end it and have all citizens be on equal ground.

No one said that. Read the article. I'm not your babysitter. I even quoted why

it's an opinion piece from what I can tell.

no stats/facts to support

 

[martybegan]

And if AA didnt exist in the first EVERYONE else would still be passed up for white males. I know which you prefer, I prefer more opportunity for all people not just white GUYS

/thread.

King was well aware of the arguments used against affirmative action policies. As far back as 1964, he was writing in Why We Can't Wait: "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

King supported affirmative action";type programs because he never confused the dream with American reality. As he put it, "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis (quoted in Let the Trumpet Sound, by Stephen Oates).

You want to quote King huh? Now I bet you don't want to anymore lol

He supported it in 1964, as a tool against instituional racism, which was rampant at the time. On that I agree with him. Nowhere, however, did he support it as a continuous permanent system.

At this point it has gone from correcting insitutional racism to promoting reverse discrimination. It should be ended.

 

[ClosedCaption]

/thread.

King was well aware of the arguments used against affirmative action policies. As far back as 1964, he was writing in Why We Can't Wait: "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

King supported affirmative action";type programs because he never confused the dream with American reality. As he put it, "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis (quoted in Let the Trumpet Sound, by Stephen Oates).

You want to quote King huh? Now I bet you don't want to anymore lol

He supported it in 1964, as a tool against instituional racism, which was rampant at the time. On that I agree with him. Nowhere, however, did he support it as a continuous permanent system.

At this point it has gone from correcting insitutional racism to promoting reverse discrimination. It should be ended.

Just like I thought, quote him when its convient then give him the back hand when its not.

How long did he say it should be a program like this? You don't know...So lets look at the quote again:

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis

Unless you can find where he said 50 years is too much or show where he was against a
permanent plan" as you say. If you cant show that you're just making it up. You guys have been trying to white wash King since the day he died, not knowing (because no one told you) that he was FOR Affirmative Action SPECIFICALLY AND NARROWLY FOCUSED on BLACKS. Not this white women and Asians get it and blacks get the blame bullshit

 

[martybegan]

You want to quote King huh? Now I bet you don't want to anymore lol

He supported it in 1964, as a tool against instituional racism, which was rampant at the time. On that I agree with him. Nowhere, however, did he support it as a continuous permanent system.

At this point it has gone from correcting insitutional racism to promoting reverse discrimination. It should be ended.

Just like I thought, quote him when its convient then give him the back hand when its not.

How long did he say it should be a program like this? You don't know...So lets look at the quote again:

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis

Unless you can find where he said 50 years is too much or show where he was against a
permanent plan" as you say. If you cant show that you're just making it up. You guys have been trying to white wash King since the day he died, not knowing (because no one told you) that he was FOR Affirmative Action SPECIFICALLY AND NARROWLY FOCUSED on BLACKS. Not this white women and Asians get it and blacks get the blame bullshit

Can you see where he said it should be permanent? Also note the "just and equal basis" part. In 1964 there was no just and equal basis, there was insitutional racism. That is not the case now. A black applicant is no different than a white applicant. What AA does now is give them a leg up when there is no longer an insitutional leg down. The Civil rights acts have been in place for decades, people applying for schools now have never seen insitutional racism, yet they benefit from a practice that trys to correct a wrong they have never been part of.

I am not blaming blacks for AA, I am blaming politicians for keeping it going. And if King was for it specifically focused on blacks I am not suprised or applalled, because back then it was needed.

Also try to remember that the main reason others get to jump on the AA gravy train is that progressive politicans have never met a disadvantaged group they didnt like, or didnt try to exploit for votes. The reason they dont limit it to blacks is they want the other groups on the gravy train, although they honestly probably dont like the whole asians getting on the bandwagon thing because of the traditionally conservative nature of asian culture.

Keep flailing around though, its fun to watch, and only increases my rep score when I respond to your "logic"

 

[ClosedCaption]

He supported it in 1964, as a tool against instituional racism, which was rampant at the time. On that I agree with him. Nowhere, however, did he support it as a continuous permanent system.

At this point it has gone from correcting insitutional racism to promoting reverse discrimination. It should be ended.

Just like I thought, quote him when its convient then give him the back hand when its not.

How long did he say it should be a program like this? You don't know...So lets look at the quote again:

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis

Unless you can find where he said 50 years is too much or show where he was against a
permanent plan" as you say. If you cant show that you're just making it up. You guys have been trying to white wash King since the day he died, not knowing (because no one told you) that he was FOR Affirmative Action SPECIFICALLY AND NARROWLY FOCUSED on BLACKS. Not this white women and Asians get it and blacks get the blame bullshit

Can you see where he said it should be permanent? Also note the "just and equal basis" part. In 1964 there was no just and equal basis, there was insitutional racism. That is not the case now. A black applicant is no different than a white applicant. What AA does now is give them a leg up when there is no longer an insitutional leg down. The Civil rights acts have been in place for decades, people applying for schools now have never seen insitutional racism, yet they benefit from a practice that trys to correct a wrong they have never been part of.

I am not blaming blacks for AA, I am blaming politicians for keeping it going. And if King was for it specifically focused on blacks I am not suprised or applalled, because back then it was needed.

Also try to remember that the main reason others get to jump on the AA gravy train is that progressive politicans have never met a disadvantaged group they didnt like, or didnt try to exploit for votes. The reason they dont limit it to blacks is they want the other groups on the gravy train, although they honestly probably dont like the whole asians getting on the bandwagon thing because of the traditionally conservative nature of asian culture.

Keep flailing around though, its fun to watch, and only increases my rep score when I respond to your "logic"

Its funny when whites try to tell blacks that everything is all good now. Maybe you would understand if you tried to tell women there is no need for their protections because "its all good" and see the response you get

They want other folks on the gravy train? The "gravy train" called equality? Do you see how you view this? As a gravy train?

Facts disagree with you, I know you cant believe it looking through your blue eyes but trust someone who lives it not the peanut gallery

 

[martybegan]

Just like I thought, quote him when its convient then give him the back hand when its not.

How long did he say it should be a program like this? You don't know...So lets look at the quote again:



Unless you can find where he said 50 years is too much or show where he was against a
permanent plan" as you say. If you cant show that you're just making it up. You guys have been trying to white wash King since the day he died, not knowing (because no one told you) that he was FOR Affirmative Action SPECIFICALLY AND NARROWLY FOCUSED on BLACKS. Not this white women and Asians get it and blacks get the blame bullshit

Can you see where he said it should be permanent? Also note the "just and equal basis" part. In 1964 there was no just and equal basis, there was insitutional racism. That is not the case now. A black applicant is no different than a white applicant. What AA does now is give them a leg up when there is no longer an insitutional leg down. The Civil rights acts have been in place for decades, people applying for schools now have never seen insitutional racism, yet they benefit from a practice that trys to correct a wrong they have never been part of.

I am not blaming blacks for AA, I am blaming politicians for keeping it going. And if King was for it specifically focused on blacks I am not suprised or applalled, because back then it was needed.

Also try to remember that the main reason others get to jump on the AA gravy train is that progressive politicans have never met a disadvantaged group they didnt like, or didnt try to exploit for votes. The reason they dont limit it to blacks is they want the other groups on the gravy train, although they honestly probably dont like the whole asians getting on the bandwagon thing because of the traditionally conservative nature of asian culture.

Keep flailing around though, its fun to watch, and only increases my rep score when I respond to your "logic"

Its funny when whites try to tell blacks that everything is all good now. Maybe you would understand if you tried to tell women there is no need for their protections because "its all good" and see the response you get

They want other folks on the gravy train? The "gravy train" called equality? Do you see how you view this? As a gravy train?

Facts disagree with you, I know you cant believe it looking through your blue eyes but trust someone who lives it not the peanut gallery

I have green grey eyes actually.

AA is not equality, it s governmental inequality to correct a previous wrong. How can it be equality when it screws over one group to help another?

And what facts are you talking about? You keep glossing over the fact that there are actual losers when it comes to AA, those passed over due to someone else getting a benefit soley due to thier skin color, sex or ethnic group. These are, when it comes to university admissions, kids who were BORN decades after the civil rights acts were passed, have never been part of an insitutional racist system, and yet have to suffer for the sins of thier fathers.

I find it comical that you cannot even admit that this is the case. Typical progressive head in the sand idiot.

 

[asaratis]

AA is quasi-quota system coupled with a lowering of the bar...just as No Child Left Behind was a dumbing down of the "school" system.

When forced to use MB firms as subcontractors, it is often advantageous to pay them as agreed upon and do the work yourself. While there are some reputable quality MB firms, there is also a slew of incompetent do-nothing-right firms that are just out for the free business. There is no way they could care less about actually performing well.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Can you see where he said it should be permanent? Also note the "just and equal basis" part. In 1964 there was no just and equal basis, there was insitutional racism. That is not the case now. A black applicant is no different than a white applicant. What AA does now is give them a leg up when there is no longer an insitutional leg down. The Civil rights acts have been in place for decades, people applying for schools now have never seen insitutional racism, yet they benefit from a practice that trys to correct a wrong they have never been part of.

I am not blaming blacks for AA, I am blaming politicians for keeping it going. And if King was for it specifically focused on blacks I am not suprised or applalled, because back then it was needed.

Also try to remember that the main reason others get to jump on the AA gravy train is that progressive politicans have never met a disadvantaged group they didnt like, or didnt try to exploit for votes. The reason they dont limit it to blacks is they want the other groups on the gravy train, although they honestly probably dont like the whole asians getting on the bandwagon thing because of the traditionally conservative nature of asian culture.

Keep flailing around though, its fun to watch, and only increases my rep score when I respond to your "logic"

Its funny when whites try to tell blacks that everything is all good now. Maybe you would understand if you tried to tell women there is no need for their protections because "its all good" and see the response you get

They want other folks on the gravy train? The "gravy train" called equality? Do you see how you view this? As a gravy train?

Facts disagree with you, I know you cant believe it looking through your blue eyes but trust someone who lives it not the peanut gallery

I have green grey eyes actually.

AA is not equality, it s governmental inequality to correct a previous wrong. How can it be equality when it screws over one group to help another?

Because previous to the law all other groups were being screwed for ONE.

And what facts are you talking about? You keep glossing over the fact that there are actual losers when it comes to AA, those passed over due to someone else getting a benefit soley due to thier skin color, sex or ethnic group. These are, when it comes to university admissions, kids who were BORN decades after the civil rights acts were passed, have never been part of an insitutional racist system, and yet have to suffer for the sins of thier fathers.

You said earlier there is no difference between blacks and whites. I'm sure you're extending that to Men and Women too. Fact is that HR depts. see a difference. Studies see the difference, blacks see the difference. YOU don't. That's not a fact, that's your opinion unless we are going to throw studies and research into the same pile you threw MLK after it wasn't convient anymore?

I find it comical that you cannot even admit that this is the case. Typical progressive head in the sand idiot.

Admit what? Dude, I understand how you want it to go back where everyone is free to discrimainate against blacks, women etc etc for white guys. Hell if I was a white guy ID WANT THAT TOO! But the program only exists because people weren't doing right by EVERYONE ELSE. Take the program away with no more than a "trust me" is for fools who don't trust studies, research etc etc

 

[martybegan]

AA is quasi-quota system coupled with a lowering of the bar...just as No Child Left Behind was a dumbing down of the "school" system.

When forced to use MB firms as subcontractors, it is often advantageous to pay them as agreed upon and do the work yourself. While there are some reputable quality MB firms, there is also a slew of incompetent do-nothing-right firms that are just out for the free business. There is no way they could care less about actually performing well.

And they are usually booked solid. When you do work with a municipality that forces you to have up to 25% of your contract subbed out to MBE/WBE firms you end up with having to hire substandard companies just to meet your goals, or risk not winning another contract. Of course when the MBE/WBE firm puts out a crap product, our company gets the blame, not the MBE/WBE or the rule that forced the situation in the first place.

 

[martybegan]

Its funny when whites try to tell blacks that everything is all good now. Maybe you would understand if you tried to tell women there is no need for their protections because "its all good" and see the response you get

They want other folks on the gravy train? The "gravy train" called equality? Do you see how you view this? As a gravy train?

Facts disagree with you, I know you cant believe it looking through your blue eyes but trust someone who lives it not the peanut gallery

I have green grey eyes actually.

AA is not equality, it s governmental inequality to correct a previous wrong. How can it be equality when it screws over one group to help another?

Because previous to the law all other groups were being screwed for ONE.

And what facts are you talking about? You keep glossing over the fact that there are actual losers when it comes to AA, those passed over due to someone else getting a benefit soley due to thier skin color, sex or ethnic group. These are, when it comes to university admissions, kids who were BORN decades after the civil rights acts were passed, have never been part of an insitutional racist system, and yet have to suffer for the sins of thier fathers.

You said earlier there is no difference between blacks and whites. I'm sure you're extending that to Men and Women too. Fact is that HR depts. see a difference. Studies see the difference, blacks see the difference. YOU don't. That's not a fact, that's your opinion unless we are going to throw studies and research into the same pile you threw MLK after it wasn't convient anymore?

I find it comical that you cannot even admit that this is the case. Typical progressive head in the sand idiot.

Admit what? Dude, I understand how you want it to go back where everyone is free to discrimainate against blacks, women etc etc for white guys. Hell if I was a white guy ID WANT THAT TOO! But the program only exists because people weren't doing right by EVERYONE ELSE. Take the program away with no more than a "trust me" is for fools who don't trust studies, research etc etc

I want to go back to nothing of the sort. I am actually what King was looking for all those years ago, I work with and for women, I have women work for me. I have all sorts of minorities work with and for me, and I work for minorities. My girlfriend isnt white. I judge people on results, not on race. What I dont feel like dealing with is being placed at a disadvantage by the government due to sins I had no part in, and crimes to which I have recieved no benefit, nor did i perform or condone. The fact that those who support it basically say I dont even have the RIGHT to be opposed to it, and wont admit that it does place me at a disadvantage is just rubbing salt in the wound.

In college there was a grant availible to blacks and women only. At the time my father had been laid off and I could have used it, and applied for it (after the screening it was need/merit based). But I couldnt apply soley because of the color of my skin and my sex.

So How is that supposed to be fair?

 

[PixieStix]

Affirmative action is unconstitutional....period

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I've got an idea, how about we hire the person most qualified, and stop looking at race and sex? We could also use this novel idea for school admissions as well.
I realize this isn't complicated enough for those whose liveliehood depends on keeping us divided, but I'm sure if we tried, we could create rules and regulations even for such a simple plan, that would apease even the government paper pushers.

 

[Vox]

Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone

Their successes make the case not for abandoning affirmative action but for continuing it


Read more: Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com

While people of color, individually and as groups, have been helped by affirmative action in the subsequent years, data and studies suggest women — white women in particular — have benefited disproportionately. According to one study, in 1995, 6 million women, the majority of whom were white, had jobs they wouldn’t have otherwise held but for affirmative action.

Another study shows that women made greater gains in employment at companies that do business with the federal government, which are therefore subject to federal affirmative-action requirements, than in other companies — with female employment rising 15.2% at federal contractors but only 2.2% elsewhere. And the women working for federal-contractor companies also held higher positions and were paid better.


Read more: Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com

What this proves is a number of things:

1. AA doesn't discriminate against whites
2. AA isn't for blacks only
3. AA doesn't "destroy" the black community because the white women community Is just fine
4. You can finally stop pretending Affirmative Action is for blacks only. The 2nd group that benefits the most: Asian

in which terms?
in suicide rates?