Action, Reaction, Result

[MJB12741]

Very good. And I sure do agree. So now can we have a clean & honest "debate" as you suggested? Or are you still going to chicken out?

Not in all cases, but in major escalations yes I do.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Yeah, so far you actually seem to want to have this debate. Now I'd like to ask about the time frame, please start with your opening argument and tell me what your objectives are. Go ahead.

 

[MJB12741]

As a token of my appreciation for a clean & honest debate I offer you first opportunity to pick any issue pertaining to Israel & the Palestinians in any time frame of your choosing, if you will then allow me to do the same afterwards?

PS: I for one am a man who prefers to limit using links. Problem is anyone can find links to support any perspective on any issue. Please allow me my own thinking rather than send you links posted by a bunch of Zionists to do my thinking for me. Fair enough? If so ---- take a load off your mind & fire away.

Yeah, so far you actually seem to want to have this debate. Now I'd like to ask about the time frame, please start with your opening argument and tell me what your objectives are. Go ahead.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Fair game, but I thought you're going to have the opening statement regarding the Gaza Israel conflict from a certain timeline? I want you to start it off. Cool?

 

[MJB12741]

Well then, if you insist I begin, then let us begin at the beginning. Fair enough? Your side likes to blame Israel for all the conflicts. And the Zionists like to blame the Palestinians. History has proven this will get neither side anywhere in achieving a lasting peace. Just more tit for tat killings blaming each other for starting them.

Now I believe the conflict started long before the UN re-establishment of Israel in 1948 which so many on the Palestinian side claim was the cause. I believe it began with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire & British Mandate in the early 1900's. For starters, do you agree? And if not, why not?

Fair game, but I thought you're going to have the opening statement regarding the Gaza Israel conflict from a certain timeline? I want you to start it off. Cool?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Well then, if you insist I begin, then let us begin at the beginning. Fair enough? Your side likes to blame Israel for all the conflicts. And the Zionists like to blame the Palestinians. History has proven this will get neither side anywhere in achieving a lasting peace. Just more tit for tat killings blaming each other for starting them.

Now I believe the conflict started long before the UN re-establishment of Israel in 1948 which so many on the Palestinian side claim was the cause. I believe it began with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire & British Mandate in the early 1900's. For starters, do you agree? And if not, why not?

Fair game, but I thought you're going to have the opening statement regarding the Gaza Israel conflict from a certain timeline? I want you to start it off. Cool?

I do agree about your first statement. Both sides nowadays tend to not admit their mistakes. It's a one blame game. But they also cannot look at each others perspective and can be easily gullible to this blame game.

For your second part, I also do agree, in regards to the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs were affected by that. And they grew tired of living under control. Now I'm assuming in regards to the British Mandate, you are referring to both Jews and Arabs? Correct?

It definitely began before that but in a different sense after 1948 or so the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs received the bad side of European politics and regarding WW2 it led to actions taken by the British and international community which upset both sides I would say so.

 

[MJB12741]

Okay. I'll buy what you say here. I'll even add Sykes-Pico for you to support your claims here of Arabs living under foreign control in the early 1900's. Any blame on Israel so far???

Well then, if you insist I begin, then let us begin at the beginning. Fair enough? Your side likes to blame Israel for all the conflicts. And the Zionists like to blame the Palestinians. History has proven this will get neither side anywhere in achieving a lasting peace. Just more tit for tat killings blaming each other for starting them.

Now I believe the conflict started long before the UN re-establishment of Israel in 1948 which so many on the Palestinian side claim was the cause. I believe it began with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire & British Mandate in the early 1900's. For starters, do you agree? And if not, why not?

Fair game, but I thought you're going to have the opening statement regarding the Gaza Israel conflict from a certain timeline? I want you to start it off. Cool?

I do agree about your first statement. Both sides nowadays tend to not admit their mistakes. It's a one blame game. But they also cannot look at each others perspective and can be easily gullible to this blame game.

For your second part, I also do agree, in regards to the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs were affected by that. And they grew tired of living under control. Now I'm assuming in regards to the British Mandate, you are referring to both Jews and Arabs? Correct?

It definitely began before that but in a different sense after 1948 or so the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs received the bad side of European politics and regarding WW2 it led to actions taken by the British and international community which upset both sides I would say so.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Israel wasn't created yet, but we're approaching immigration and the mandate. But the Arab world came under that moment, where everyone seeker their oil. This should lead is to understand they were already frustrated with events leading up to and during the early 1900's. And reactions politically didn't have much effects on any change.

 

[MJB12741]

Good morning BIK. Okay, close enough to my thinking to avoid starting any argument with you so far.

So what do we agree on so far? Looks to me like in the early 1900's prior to the re-establishment of Israel, the Arabs were already very upset with foreign control by the Ottomans, the British, & then the French & Russians as well with the Sykes Picot agreement. And the Arabs had every right to feel that way. But still nothing whatsoever against Israel. Is my summary thus far fair & accurate as to what we agree on so far?

Israel wasn't created yet, but we're approaching immigration and the mandate. But the Arab world came under that moment, where everyone seeker their oil. This should lead is to understand they were already frustrated with events leading up to and during the early 1900's. And reactions politically didn't have much effects on any change.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Good morning to you to, Yes we do, so now were approaching some important events. And you may also make that case for Jews later on.

 

[MJB12741]

Which "important event" would you like for us to start with?

Good morning to you to, Yes we do, so now were approaching some important events. And you may also make that case for Jews later on.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Probably the British Campaign for Palestine. We went over the Ottoman campaigns in the 1830's, but this is where Great Britain was awarded their mandates. And we had Palestinian revolts following this scattered throughout the 1920's to maybe mid 1930's, those were the major ones. Then the Balfour Declaration was created and the Palestine Arab Congress was created to oppose it while also the Zionist Commision was formed was active in promoting Zionist objectives. The Palestine Arab Congress also included the Muslim-Christian Association. I think this is the part where Zionists directly became involved in larger frame for this conflict.

Now where I want you to agree, is regarding the Balfour Declaration, I think all of us clearly knew this was a unfair document and was generally created for a Jewish Home in Palestine. It was presented Lord Roshchild in Britain, and I do believe Zionists in Europe had ties to this Mandate and wanted them to guarantee a state for them. Had the Arabs and Jews had a better chance to live together if there wasn't a independent Jewish State created on Palestine? Yes I do believe so, but you had Britain and France saying some Arab territory would be given to the Palestinians under their administration. I believe that this document made it clear that there was cooperation between Britain and the Zionists. It was already an unfair move which I believe you won't disagree on. The British government chose to support Zionist aspirations.

I believe this also proves the push for an independent Jewish State by Zionists was well before WW2.

 

[Hossfly]

Probably the British Campaign for Palestine. We went over the Ottoman campaigns in the 1830's, but this is where Great Britain was awarded their mandates. And we had Palestinian revolts following this scattered throughout the 1920's to maybe mid 1930's, those were the major ones. Then the Balfour Declaration was created and the Palestine Arab Congress was created to oppose it while also the Zionist Commision was formed was active in promoting Zionist objectives. The Palestine Arab Congress also included the Muslim-Christian Association. I think this is the part where Zionists directly became involved in larger frame for this conflict.

Now where I want you to agree, is regarding the Balfour Declaration, I think all of us clearly knew this was a unfair document and was generally created for a Jewish Home in Palestine. It was presented Lord Roshchild in Britain, and I do believe Zionists in Europe had ties to this Mandate and wanted them to guarantee a state for them. Had the Arabs and Jews had a better chance to live together if there wasn't a independent Jewish State created on Palestine? Yes I do believe so, but you had Britain and France saying some Arab territory would be given to the Palestinians under their administration. I believe that this document made it clear that there was cooperation between Britain and the Zionists. It was already an unfair move which I believe you won't disagree on. The British government chose to support Zionist aspirations.

I believe this also proves the push for an independent Jewish State by Zionists was well before WW2.

".....Well before World War2." Say about the time shortly before Moses left Egypt? That just about covers the time period. You win a seegar.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Btw MJ, I may not have all day, I have a little time today. But I want to include that this made the Palestinians suspicious of the Zionists, it seemed like a pre planned action. Right after a year or so after the British campaign for Palestine a declaration was presented right away and it made the whole Mandate seem like it had one purpose, the creation of a Jewish State in Palestine.

 

[MJB12741]

Well, now we have a little disagreement but hopefully one that won't deter us from moving on. Before I comment on the Balfour Declaration I would like to back up for a moment & ask you if would agree the Dreyfus Affair in France 1894 was a prime factor that led to the Jews seeking an approved homeland?

Probably the British Campaign for Palestine. We went over the Ottoman campaigns in the 1830's, but this is where Great Britain was awarded their mandates. And we had Palestinian revolts following this scattered throughout the 1920's to maybe mid 1930's, those were the major ones. Then the Balfour Declaration was created and the Palestine Arab Congress was created to oppose it while also the Zionist Commision was formed was active in promoting Zionist objectives. The Palestine Arab Congress also included the Muslim-Christian Association. I think this is the part where Zionists directly became involved in larger frame for this conflict.

Now where I want you to agree, is regarding the Balfour Declaration, I think all of us clearly knew this was a unfair document and was generally created for a Jewish Home in Palestine. It was presented Lord Roshchild in Britain, and I do believe Zionists in Europe had ties to this Mandate and wanted them to guarantee a state for them. Had the Arabs and Jews had a better chance to live together if there wasn't a independent Jewish State created on Palestine? Yes I do believe so, but you had Britain and France saying some Arab territory would be given to the Palestinians under their administration. I believe that this document made it clear that there was cooperation between Britain and the Zionists. It was already an unfair move which I believe you won't disagree on. The British government chose to support Zionist aspirations.

I believe this also proves the push for an independent Jewish State by Zionists was well before WW2.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I wouldn't say prime factor, I would say slightly. If you disagree to ahead and explain your position and go ahead and move on with what you were gonna say.

 

[MJB12741]

My point is that both the Jews & the Arabs got screwed long before the re-establishment of Israel causing valid justifications to protect themselves. For the Arabs it meant keeping foreigners out of their countries. For the Jews it meant finding a safe haven in their own land. And the Mizrachi Arab Jews were in Israel or Palestine, whichever we prefer to call it for thousands of years before any Muslims. So whose land should it be?

PS: I am not on this board 24/7. Don't even look at most posts. Too many better things to do with my life. So please forgive me for any time delays in getting back to you in our debate. And I grant you the same understanding.

I wouldn't say prime factor, I would say slightly. If you disagree to ahead and explain your position and go ahead and move on with what you were gonna say.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Me too. I'm going out for the day, so I will post back maybe tonight.

 

[Hossfly]

Me too. I'm going out for the day, so I will post back maybe tonight.

Good boy! Don't get run over by a runaway camel, honeykins.

 

[MJB12741]

No problem. Regarding the Balfour Declaration I believe we must first ask who needed it & why? Let us not forget the many Jewish persecutions even before the Nazi's. Hence the Zionist need to find a homeland. And where else should it be than back in their original homeland long before any Muslim Palestinians moved in from surrounding Arab countries?

Me too. I'm going out for the day, so I will post back maybe tonight.