Act of War

[Tehon]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

Was this written into the agreement that he signed?

The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND

New agreements can be made..............while he made the agreement Obama had no intention of trying to make a deal to ensure they wouldn't have the intel backing and support needed to assist the Iraqi's in holding the North...................Obama wanted out.............period.................the Iraqi's knew that............

Had Romney been in office............they would have cut another deal to CEMENT the VICTORY...........not CUT AND RUN.

While I don't disagree with you that Obama wasn't overly concerned about getting a new agreement, you must also realize he did not have a willing partner. The Iranian stooge that Bush promoted as Prime Minister along with the Iranians already had what they wanted.......a signed agreement that the US would leave Iraq. Bush signed that agreement not Obama.

 

[Camp]

Vietnam was lost because or arrogance, and also because the army didn't understand that things had changed.

Yep, in Iraq the forces were destroyed. Hardly surprising seeing how weak the Iraqi army was. However it was lost in the post war period by arrogance and ineptitude, again.

You say the country was taken and held. But it wasn't held. It was having problems all the time. What would become ISIS was battering away until 2007 when a surge was needed to stop this happening. Then under BUSH, the withdrawal started to happen. So, even you think that there was ineptitude from Bush. He started a withdrawal and signed a document that led to the withdrawal. AND the Republicans supported this. McCain who criticized Obama for withdrawing, yet supported and pushed for the withdrawal. Go figure.

Yeah, politicians lose wars. Politicians elected by the people. People lose wars by electing morons. Look at the current situation, Trump, I mean, COME THE **** ON.

Vietnam was lost because the Politicians didn't listen...............Generals wanted to invade the North and choke the shit out of their supplies and home base...............................again..............what the **** would we have done after with it.....................

Petraeous strategy was working...........and did cut down the violence there.............................I never was for full occupation or nation building..............but refuse to tuck tail and run from it as Obama did when these regions were payed for in blood..........................We should not have went cold turkey there...........................

Most of the ones who served feel betrayed by America............saying they would never go back and take those places again...............only to be handed over............

I've talked to many who have stated that.

Politicians don't listen? The politicians listen. What they're listening to are people who don't understand and want short term goals.
Look at Trump. He's parroting those who are nationalistic and simplistic, and he's doing well. The message is simple, far too simple, but too many people connect to simplistic messages.

He's not saying anything novel or new. He's merely putting it together in a package and being loud about it, and people seem to like that.

You keep blaming Obama for running away. But Bush started the running away. Bush gave Obama the written document that said he had to run away and EVERYONE supported it in politics, like 66% of Republicans supported it. So why would he do any different? HE WAS LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE.

So those who served feel betrayed? Why did they not feel betrayed that they being sent to places like Iraq, under equipped and in a bad situation made by the C-in-C Bush?

The final withdrawal was subject to change based on the situation in Iraq.................In the Presidential debates with Romney he said as much.............The final decision came from the new Commander N Chief and he made the final call....................which was wrong.............He ran on getting us out of there............He had no intentions of staying if the situation wasn't ready for it................You can't blame Bush for decisions he made.............

You talk about the old argument of Under equipped troops............but forget as part of the Budget cuts under Clinton we had a MASSIVE reduction in Military Budget, bases , and troops..........Your side was all too happy to Cheer for that then............and HYPOCRITES LATER for saying we sent men off to War without the equipment after CUTTING THE **** OUT OF THE MILITARY...............That is nothing more than circle jerk politics.

So you think it was a wrong call. Is it wrong when 66% of REPUBLICANS thought he should have withdrawn? Isn't that called LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE?

So, you're saying he shouldn't have listened to the people? 75% of them thought he should have withdrawn, and he should have just gone with the 25% because..... because 6 years later and with hindsight, the Republicans changed their mind?

Maybe BUSH shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Yeah, loads of people supported that too. Mainly because of his own propaganda about nuclear programs and WMD which was bullshit and they knew it.

You are the party of excuses.........................Did Obama have to ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM BUSH to make a DECISION IN IRAQ....................Kinda like HEY DAD CAN I USE YOUR CAR..............................

He made the FINAL CALL.....................and you try to lay that Blame on Bush.....................In the Debates Romney warned against it..............AS DID BUSH if the situation warranted a longer stay....................They were RIGHT and Obama was WRONG...................At a minimum our intel network should have remained.........................

Your side is good at blaming OTHERS for your own SHITTY DECISIONS.................Kinda like Libya..........and the Gun Running to Syria out of there..........How'd that TURN OUT............YEMEN......EGYPT..............Obama is a FAILURE.

Bush signed a binding agreement with Iraq a month before he left office. This was after the election and he knew that Obama had campaigned and won the election on promising to end the war and military involvement in Iraq. He could have delayed the agreement and told the Iraqi's they would have to negotiate with the new incoming President. Instead, he dumped a mess on America, the new President and the military and committed the US to follow a time table years into the future so that he and his followers could make the bogus claim that he "ended" the war in Iraq.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

Was this written into the agreement that he signed?

The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND

New agreements can be made..............while he made the agreement Obama had no intention of trying to make a deal to ensure they wouldn't have the intel backing and support needed to assist the Iraqi's in holding the North...................Obama wanted out.............period.................the Iraqi's knew that............

Had Romney been in office............they would have cut another deal to CEMENT the VICTORY...........not CUT AND RUN.

While I don't disagree with you that Obama wasn't overly concerned about getting a new agreement, you must also realize he did not have a willing partner. The Iranian stooge that Bush promoted as Prime Minister along with the Iranians already had what they wanted.......a signed agreement that the US would leave Iraq. Bush signed that agreement not Obama.

Watch the video I posted to Care4all............The man saying it was a Commanding General there who worked hand in hand with Petraous that had put a lid on the violence in Iraq......................Using the Counter Intelligence Strategy worked and was still working when we left...........................

He is saying differently.............and he basically lived with these guys back then.........including the leadership of Iraq.............He's saying the immunity deal wasn't the main problem..............The main problem was the Iraqi's didn't trust our resolve to stay the course with OBAMA............AKA they didn't trust OBAMA.

 

[Care4all]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

OK, so let's PRETEND like we kept troops there, and Obama did not bring them home....

what would that rosy scenario be??

how long would the troops be there? would any more troops be killed? would terrorism and jihadists disappear in the whole middle east? would shiites and sunnis be having a lovefest? And in Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt ,Libya, Somalia etc etc.... tell us how wonderful it would all be there in this PRETEND scenario.... I'm all ears....

I'll let General Keane answer that for you.............

that didn't answer my questions at all...give it a try on your own in answering those questions of mine and what YOU think would have happened and how the middle east would be better off with peace and unity today....if only we had left a few men in Iraq....

 

[eagle1462010]

Vietnam was lost because the Politicians didn't listen...............Generals wanted to invade the North and choke the shit out of their supplies and home base...............................again..............what the **** would we have done after with it.....................

Petraeous strategy was working...........and did cut down the violence there.............................I never was for full occupation or nation building..............but refuse to tuck tail and run from it as Obama did when these regions were payed for in blood..........................We should not have went cold turkey there...........................

Most of the ones who served feel betrayed by America............saying they would never go back and take those places again...............only to be handed over............

I've talked to many who have stated that.

Politicians don't listen? The politicians listen. What they're listening to are people who don't understand and want short term goals.
Look at Trump. He's parroting those who are nationalistic and simplistic, and he's doing well. The message is simple, far too simple, but too many people connect to simplistic messages.

He's not saying anything novel or new. He's merely putting it together in a package and being loud about it, and people seem to like that.

You keep blaming Obama for running away. But Bush started the running away. Bush gave Obama the written document that said he had to run away and EVERYONE supported it in politics, like 66% of Republicans supported it. So why would he do any different? HE WAS LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE.

So those who served feel betrayed? Why did they not feel betrayed that they being sent to places like Iraq, under equipped and in a bad situation made by the C-in-C Bush?

The final withdrawal was subject to change based on the situation in Iraq.................In the Presidential debates with Romney he said as much.............The final decision came from the new Commander N Chief and he made the final call....................which was wrong.............He ran on getting us out of there............He had no intentions of staying if the situation wasn't ready for it................You can't blame Bush for decisions he made.............

You talk about the old argument of Under equipped troops............but forget as part of the Budget cuts under Clinton we had a MASSIVE reduction in Military Budget, bases , and troops..........Your side was all too happy to Cheer for that then............and HYPOCRITES LATER for saying we sent men off to War without the equipment after CUTTING THE **** OUT OF THE MILITARY...............That is nothing more than circle jerk politics.

So you think it was a wrong call. Is it wrong when 66% of REPUBLICANS thought he should have withdrawn? Isn't that called LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE?

So, you're saying he shouldn't have listened to the people? 75% of them thought he should have withdrawn, and he should have just gone with the 25% because..... because 6 years later and with hindsight, the Republicans changed their mind?

Maybe BUSH shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Yeah, loads of people supported that too. Mainly because of his own propaganda about nuclear programs and WMD which was bullshit and they knew it.

You are the party of excuses.........................Did Obama have to ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM BUSH to make a DECISION IN IRAQ....................Kinda like HEY DAD CAN I USE YOUR CAR..............................

He made the FINAL CALL.....................and you try to lay that Blame on Bush.....................In the Debates Romney warned against it..............AS DID BUSH if the situation warranted a longer stay....................They were RIGHT and Obama was WRONG...................At a minimum our intel network should have remained.........................

Your side is good at blaming OTHERS for your own SHITTY DECISIONS.................Kinda like Libya..........and the Gun Running to Syria out of there..........How'd that TURN OUT............YEMEN......EGYPT..............Obama is a FAILURE.

Bush signed a binding agreement with Iraq a month before he left office. This was after the election and he knew that Obama had campaigned and won the election on promising to end the war and military involvement in Iraq. He could have delayed the agreement and told the Iraqi's they would have to negotiate with the new incoming President. Instead, he dumped a mess on America, the new President and the military and committed the US to follow a time table years into the future so that he and his followers could make the bogus claim that he "ended" the war in Iraq.

Again............I'll take the commanding Generals words over yours............................According to Keane and others they said a deal could have been made and that it wasn't the WHITE WASH BS I keep saying from your side.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

OK, so let's PRETEND like we kept troops there, and Obama did not bring them home....

what would that rosy scenario be??

how long would the troops be there? would any more troops be killed? would terrorism and jihadists disappear in the whole middle east? would shiites and sunnis be having a lovefest? And in Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt ,Libya, Somalia etc etc.... tell us how wonderful it would all be there in this PRETEND scenario.... I'm all ears....

I'll let General Keane answer that for you.............

that didn't answer my questions at all...give it a try on your own in answering those questions of mine and what YOU think would have happened and how the middle east would be better off with peace and unity today....if only we had left a few men in Iraq....

23,000 men to be exact was the request from the Generals..........Including air support and the Counter Intel group..............

That was the requested amount needed to stay...............

What would have happened..............Well for starters.............ISIL WOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN NORTHERN IRAQ.....................Our forces with the intel were killing them faster than they could come in before we left cold turkey...........................

The places there paid for with American blood are now in their hands.........had our forces been there...........it wouldn't have happened...........

Now Iraq, even as we still fight there............after the place went to shit.......by OBAMA'S decisions..........the influence has shifted to alliance with Iran........And it may well end with a greater Iran influence dominance in the area...........and I'd remind you that Iran is a State sponsor of Terror...................

Face it...........Obama hauled ass and allowed this to happen....................And when they started losing the territory HE DID NOTHING.....until the MEDIA DEMANDED ACTION as they Kurds and Yardis were begging for help in the North...................

He's a FAILURE.............and it was HIS DECISION..................

 

[Camp]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

OK, so let's PRETEND like we kept troops there, and Obama did not bring them home....

what would that rosy scenario be??

how long would the troops be there? would any more troops be killed? would terrorism and jihadists disappear in the whole middle east? would shiites and sunnis be having a lovefest? And in Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt ,Libya, Somalia etc etc.... tell us how wonderful it would all be there in this PRETEND scenario.... I'm all ears....

I'll let General Keane answer that for you.............

The General in the interview is so uninformed about Iraq that he refers to it as an Arab country. It is unbelievable that guys as uninformed as him are giving advice. Persians and Kurds are not Arabic speaking peoples.

 

[ChrisL]

This isn't the first time I've heard about Obama ignoring the advice of generals and instead of even TRYING to make a new deal, he just wanted to pull out of Iraq. Think about it, that was actually one of his campaign promises. I don't know what role Bush played by agreeing to an "end date" in all of this. I thought such things were up for negotiation. I do agree that the Iraq War destabilized the area. Is that because of the war itself or because of how we left the place? The Iraqis themselves also hold some responsibility for this mess. Allowing themselves (governmental officials) to be bought and sold by the extremist elements.

 

[ChrisL]

Are they TOO ignorant to be able to run a country without a dictatorship? WTF is wrong with them anyway?

 

[Camp]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

Was this written into the agreement that he signed?

The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND

New agreements can be made..............while he made the agreement Obama had no intention of trying to make a deal to ensure they wouldn't have the intel backing and support needed to assist the Iraqi's in holding the North...................Obama wanted out.............period.................the Iraqi's knew that............

Had Romney been in office............they would have cut another deal to CEMENT the VICTORY...........not CUT AND RUN.

While I don't disagree with you that Obama wasn't overly concerned about getting a new agreement, you must also realize he did not have a willing partner. The Iranian stooge that Bush promoted as Prime Minister along with the Iranians already had what they wanted.......a signed agreement that the US would leave Iraq. Bush signed that agreement not Obama.

Watch the video I posted to Care4all............The man saying it was a Commanding General there who worked hand in hand with Petraous that had put a lid on the violence in Iraq......................Using the Counter Intelligence Strategy worked and was still working when we left...........................

He is saying differently.............and he basically lived with these guys back then.........including the leadership of Iraq.............He's saying the immunity deal wasn't the main problem..............The main problem was the Iraqi's didn't trust our resolve to stay the course with OBAMA............AKA they didn't trust OBAMA.

He never commanded anything in Iraq. He was in retirement during Iraq and worked for a Republican agenda-driven think tank and propaganda mill and as a talking head for FOX News.

 

[eagle1462010]

This isn't the first time I've heard about Obama ignoring the advice of generals and instead of even TRYING to make a new deal, he just wanted to pull out of Iraq. Think about it, that was actually one of his campaign promises. I don't know what role Bush played by agreeing to an "end date" in all of this. I thought such things were up for negotiation. I do agree that the Iraq War destabilized the area. Is that because of the war itself or because of how we left the place? The Iraqis themselves also hold some responsibility for this mess. Allowing themselves (governmental officials) to be bought and sold by the extremist elements.

 

[ChrisL]

This isn't the first time I've heard about Obama ignoring the advice of generals and instead of even TRYING to make a new deal, he just wanted to pull out of Iraq. Think about it, that was actually one of his campaign promises. I don't know what role Bush played by agreeing to an "end date" in all of this. I thought such things were up for negotiation. I do agree that the Iraq War destabilized the area. Is that because of the war itself or because of how we left the place? The Iraqis themselves also hold some responsibility for this mess. Allowing themselves (governmental officials) to be bought and sold by the extremist elements.

Yeah well, his hands aren't clean either.

 

[Iceweasel]

It is such an odd defense that defies logic. Bush created a democracy in Iraq that was a success until Obama lost it. How did Obama lose it. By not going against public opinion and breaking the contract that Bush signed with his successful democratic government. The contract that was supposed to prove Bush's success, that Iraq could stand on its own. Some of you must be contortionists in your day job.

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

OK, so let's PRETEND like we kept troops there, and Obama did not bring them home....

what would that rosy scenario be??

how long would the troops be there? would any more troops be killed? would terrorism and jihadists disappear in the whole middle east? would shiites and sunnis be having a lovefest? And in Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt ,Libya, Somalia etc etc.... tell us how wonderful it would all be there in this PRETEND scenario.... I'm all ears....

I'll let General Keane answer that for you.............

The General in the interview is so uninformed about Iraq that he refers to it as an Arab country. It is unbelievable that guys as uninformed as him are giving advice. Persians and Kurds are not Arabic speaking peoples.

Why are you even offering an opinion?

Arab League Nations Countries
The Arab League comprises of 22 members. The members are Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Tunisia, Algeria, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Somalia, Iraq, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Comoros, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, Egypt, Morocco, Mauritiana and Yemen. The League is involved in political, economic, cultural and social programs to promote the interests of the member states. It has successfully settled some Arab disputes.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Iceweasel]

The Battle ongoing was a Civil War between Shiite and Sunni factions...........left over Baathist from Saddam wanting the power back..................The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.........................Bush stated that pulling out cold turkey would result in what has happened.....................As did Romney.............................

It doesn't matter..................Obama made the FINAL CALL and it was HIS FINAL DECISION...............I'm sick of the blame game..........because the Generals, Intel agencies, Bush, Romney ALL SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN when Obama made the final decision......................

He didn't listen.........he wanted out at the first opportunity.............and hauled ass...................knowing later if the place went to shit that he could hold up the document and say IT'S BUSHES FAULT................What a hell of a CNC......................pffft.....................

I got out of the military because I couldn't stomach anymore of Clinton after Somalia.................and now the chump Obama is even worse to our people in Uniform...........

The BUCK STOPS with WHO MADE THE CALL..............and it WAS WRONG.

Was this written into the agreement that he signed?

The agreement Bush was going for was DEPENDENT ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND

New agreements can be made..............while he made the agreement Obama had no intention of trying to make a deal to ensure they wouldn't have the intel backing and support needed to assist the Iraqi's in holding the North...................Obama wanted out.............period.................the Iraqi's knew that............

Had Romney been in office............they would have cut another deal to CEMENT the VICTORY...........not CUT AND RUN.

While I don't disagree with you that Obama wasn't overly concerned about getting a new agreement, you must also realize he did not have a willing partner. The Iranian stooge that Bush promoted as Prime Minister along with the Iranians already had what they wanted.......a signed agreement that the US would leave Iraq. Bush signed that agreement not Obama.

Watch the video I posted to Care4all............The man saying it was a Commanding General there who worked hand in hand with Petraous that had put a lid on the violence in Iraq......................Using the Counter Intelligence Strategy worked and was still working when we left...........................

He is saying differently.............and he basically lived with these guys back then.........including the leadership of Iraq.............He's saying the immunity deal wasn't the main problem..............The main problem was the Iraqi's didn't trust our resolve to stay the course with OBAMA............AKA they didn't trust OBAMA.

He never commanded anything in Iraq. He was in retirement during Iraq and worked for a Republican agenda-driven think tank and propaganda mill and as a talking head for FOX News.

You got some more spittle on your "I hate Bush" baby bib.

 

[eagle1462010]

This isn't the first time I've heard about Obama ignoring the advice of generals and instead of even TRYING to make a new deal, he just wanted to pull out of Iraq. Think about it, that was actually one of his campaign promises. I don't know what role Bush played by agreeing to an "end date" in all of this. I thought such things were up for negotiation. I do agree that the Iraq War destabilized the area. Is that because of the war itself or because of how we left the place? The Iraqis themselves also hold some responsibility for this mess. Allowing themselves (governmental officials) to be bought and sold by the extremist elements.

Yeah well, his hands aren't clean either.

No they are not............but he had a hell of a lot more understanding of the situation than the Dumb Ass we have now.

 

[ChrisL]

This isn't the first time I've heard about Obama ignoring the advice of generals and instead of even TRYING to make a new deal, he just wanted to pull out of Iraq. Think about it, that was actually one of his campaign promises. I don't know what role Bush played by agreeing to an "end date" in all of this. I thought such things were up for negotiation. I do agree that the Iraq War destabilized the area. Is that because of the war itself or because of how we left the place? The Iraqis themselves also hold some responsibility for this mess. Allowing themselves (governmental officials) to be bought and sold by the extremist elements.

Yeah well, his hands aren't clean either.

No they are not............but he had a hell of a lot more understanding of the situation than the Dumb Ass we have now.

Sure, Obama took a bad situation and made it worse. This is just another reason why it is a good idea to stay OUT of the Syrian garbage. Let them sort out their own damn problems! We don't have to involve ourselves in everything!

 

[frigidweirdo]

Vietnam was lost because or arrogance, and also because the army didn't understand that things had changed.

Yep, in Iraq the forces were destroyed. Hardly surprising seeing how weak the Iraqi army was. However it was lost in the post war period by arrogance and ineptitude, again.

You say the country was taken and held. But it wasn't held. It was having problems all the time. What would become ISIS was battering away until 2007 when a surge was needed to stop this happening. Then under BUSH, the withdrawal started to happen. So, even you think that there was ineptitude from Bush. He started a withdrawal and signed a document that led to the withdrawal. AND the Republicans supported this. McCain who criticized Obama for withdrawing, yet supported and pushed for the withdrawal. Go figure.

Yeah, politicians lose wars. Politicians elected by the people. People lose wars by electing morons. Look at the current situation, Trump, I mean, COME THE **** ON.

Vietnam was lost because the Politicians didn't listen...............Generals wanted to invade the North and choke the shit out of their supplies and home base...............................again..............what the **** would we have done after with it.....................

Petraeous strategy was working...........and did cut down the violence there.............................I never was for full occupation or nation building..............but refuse to tuck tail and run from it as Obama did when these regions were payed for in blood..........................We should not have went cold turkey there...........................

Most of the ones who served feel betrayed by America............saying they would never go back and take those places again...............only to be handed over............

I've talked to many who have stated that.

Politicians don't listen? The politicians listen. What they're listening to are people who don't understand and want short term goals.
Look at Trump. He's parroting those who are nationalistic and simplistic, and he's doing well. The message is simple, far too simple, but too many people connect to simplistic messages.

He's not saying anything novel or new. He's merely putting it together in a package and being loud about it, and people seem to like that.

You keep blaming Obama for running away. But Bush started the running away. Bush gave Obama the written document that said he had to run away and EVERYONE supported it in politics, like 66% of Republicans supported it. So why would he do any different? HE WAS LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE.

So those who served feel betrayed? Why did they not feel betrayed that they being sent to places like Iraq, under equipped and in a bad situation made by the C-in-C Bush?

The final withdrawal was subject to change based on the situation in Iraq.................In the Presidential debates with Romney he said as much.............The final decision came from the new Commander N Chief and he made the final call....................which was wrong.............He ran on getting us out of there............He had no intentions of staying if the situation wasn't ready for it................You can't blame Bush for decisions he made.............

You talk about the old argument of Under equipped troops............but forget as part of the Budget cuts under Clinton we had a MASSIVE reduction in Military Budget, bases , and troops..........Your side was all too happy to Cheer for that then............and HYPOCRITES LATER for saying we sent men off to War without the equipment after CUTTING THE **** OUT OF THE MILITARY...............That is nothing more than circle jerk politics.

So you think it was a wrong call. Is it wrong when 66% of REPUBLICANS thought he should have withdrawn? Isn't that called LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE?

So, you're saying he shouldn't have listened to the people? 75% of them thought he should have withdrawn, and he should have just gone with the 25% because..... because 6 years later and with hindsight, the Republicans changed their mind?

Maybe BUSH shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Yeah, loads of people supported that too. Mainly because of his own propaganda about nuclear programs and WMD which was bullshit and they knew it.

You are the party of excuses.........................Did Obama have to ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM BUSH to make a DECISION IN IRAQ....................Kinda like HEY DAD CAN I USE YOUR CAR..............................

He made the FINAL CALL.....................and you try to lay that Blame on Bush.....................In the Debates Romney warned against it..............AS DID BUSH if the situation warranted a longer stay....................They were RIGHT and Obama was WRONG...................At a minimum our intel network should have remained.........................

Your side is good at blaming OTHERS for your own SHITTY DECISIONS.................Kinda like Libya..........and the Gun Running to Syria out of there..........How'd that TURN OUT............YEMEN......EGYPT..............Obama is a FAILURE.

I'm not really sure I'm a party at all. I mean, I don't drink, I don't really go to parties any more. Also, I don't belong to a political party, just on the off chance this is what you were talking about, and I've never voted Republican or Democrat. So.... I'm not sure how I am a party.

What do you mean "did Obama ask for permission"?

Firstly Bush signed the order to leave and started the withdrawal process. Secondly the people, on all sides, were behind the withdrawal. I don't see why you're blaming for something when both sides are to blame for something, that seems to some, a bad idea in HINDSIGHT.

At the time most people thought it was a GOOD IDEA.

Also the strategy of moving more troops to Afghanistan to deal with the situation there, meant that troops had to leave Iraq in order to go somewhere else.

Firstly, you say it was a shitty decision. I'm not sure on that one. The shitty decisions were taken in 2003 by Bush and Bremer.

Libya was Obama being a politician, blinded by the desire to be popular. There's nothing positive I can say about his actions there.

Moving into Syria is also a really bad idea. He needs to be stronger on his principles, he's too willing to drop them when things change.

Egypt was Obama moving on something he thought right, and others did, and was wrong, and probably not a great idea, but he didn't do much, it was the Egyptians doing their own thing and finding their own way. So...

 

[Wildman]

I am saying NO war.

just kill all the radical muslimes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Obama ignored general’s pleas to keep American forces in Iraq

Retired ArmyGen. John M. Keane, who advised commanders in Iraq and helped devise the 2007 troop surge, remembers how the U.S. achieved victory by working hand in hand with Iraq’s military to conduct pinpoint strikes. The effort was so effective that the enemy, al Qaeda in Iraq, stopped sending killers into Iraq because they would be exterminated quickly.

In December 2011, the U.S. military left, led by Army Gen. Lloyd J. Austin III, who now heads U.S. Central Command and is studying options for helping Baghdad survive absent U.S. combat troops.

The exit was completed too soon, Gen. Keane said.

“As we pulled out of Iraq in 2011, just think of this: We had all our intelligence capability there. We knew where the enemy was. We were flying drones. We’re tracking them. We have signals intelligence pouring in, eavesdropping on phone conversations and the rest of it. We’re using our counterterrorism forces to bang against these guys. We’re passing that information to the Iraqis so their commandos can do the same,” the general said.

After several years of reduced violence in Iraq, the Americans left.

“On a given day in 2011, that screen went blank. The Iraqis went from a significant amount of intelligence on what was taking place, and the screen just went blank,” Gen. Keane said.

But generals are generals. Oh, please, keep spending loads of money on the military, make me get promoted a few more times.