Acknowledging danger without blaming victims. Why awareness matters in sexual assault prevention.

[Anomalism]

Every decent person agrees that rape/sexual assault is wrong. No one is defending predators or excusing their behavior. In a perfect world, women would be able to wear what they want, go where they please, and never worry about their safety, but this isn’t a perfect world, and pretending it is doesn’t help anyone stay safe. In reality, sexual predators exist. Some men are dangerous. That’s not fair to women, but it is true, and while it’s not a woman’s fault if she is attacked, it’s also not wrong to talk about risk and awareness. What someone wears can be noticed. It can spark attention. That doesn't mean a woman is asking for it, but we shouldn’t ignore that visual triggers do affect how some men behave, especially in places where safety is already low. Saying “men need to control themselves” is morally right, but it’s not a plan. Until all danger disappears, people, especially women, should be empowered to think about their surroundings, their appearance, and their choices, not because they’re to blame, but because they should do what they can to stay safe in an unsafe world.

 

[Anathema]

We ALL need to be conscious of the environment around us at all times. Young, attractive women maybe more than middle-aged men like myself; but we all do. We live in a patently unsafe environment these days, regardless of what you’re wearing or look like.

I do suggest to everyone, especially young women that they be prepared to defend themselves as much of the time as possible.

 

[Anomalism]

I do suggest to everyone, especially young women that they be prepared to defend themselves as much of the time as possible.

Perhaps even take precautionary measures to not end up in a situation in the first place.

 

[Anathema]

Perhaps even take precautionary measures to not end up in a situation in the first place.

Exactly. I go out of my way to avoid situations where some type of confrontation is likely. However, I Leo do everything possible to ensure I’m prepared if one of those situations does find me.

 

[Donald H]

Perhaps even take precautionary measures to not end up in a situation in the first place.

So far here, the onus is being placed on women and that's a socially wrong attitude IMO.

 

[Anomalism]

So far here, the onus is being placed on women and that's a socially wrong attitude IMO.

We should all be interested in doing what we can to keep ourselves safe. Would you agree with that? I'm not blaming women, or saying the idea that they shouldn't have to do that is morally wrong. I am saying it's not a practical strategy. Predators exist, and that reality should be taken seriously. If my daughter was walking through a dark neighborhood at night, I wouldn't blame her for doing something that should be safe in an ideal world. I would simply be terrified because I know what kinds of people are out there. This is not an ideal world.

"Women aren't asking for it. They should be able to wear what they want and go where they want. Men should control themselves."

Morally, I have absolutely no objection to that. Practically though, I understand that some men will not control themselves, so women should account for that.

 

[Donald H]

We should all be interested in doing what we can to keep ourselves safe. Would you agree with that?

Yes.

I'm not blaming women, or saying the idea that they shouldn't have to do that is morally wrong.

To keep themselves safe? No you're not saying it's morally wrong.

I am saying it's not a practical strategy. Predators exist, and that reality should be taken seriously. If my daughter was walking through a dark neighborhood at night, I wouldn't blame her for doing something that should be safe in an ideal world. I would simply be terrified because I know what kinds of people are out there. This is not an ideal world.

You're right IMO, but you're not saying anything about the need to change the environment in America that will make even naked women safe. We're not talking about violent crimes on women yet, we're still stuck on imagining it as sexual crime.

It's not an ideal world, but in reference to this discussion only, it can be and is much closer to ideal in Europe.

"Women aren't asking for it. They should be able to wear what they want and go where they want. Men should control themselves."

Yes.

Morally, I have absolutely no objection to that. Practically though, I understand that some men will not control themselves, so women should account for that.

No, women shouldn't be accounting for men who can't control themselves!
We may not disagree on moral aspects, but we disagree on the practical.
The environment is what causes the high incicence of rape and other crimes of violence on women.

Talk to me about some solutions.

 

[Anomalism]

Yes.

To keep themselves safe? No you're not saying it's morally wrong.

You're right IMO, but you're not saying anything about the need to change the environment in America that will make even naked women safe. We're not talking about violent crimes on women yet, we're still stuck on imagining it as sexual crime.

It's not an ideal world, but in reference to this discussion only, it can be and is much closer to ideal in Europe.

Yes.

We may not disagree on moral aspects, but we disagree on the practical.
The environment is what causes the high incicence of rape and other crimes of violence on women.

Talk to me about some solutions.

We're not there yet. Hopefully we will be one day. Today though, a woman can't count on not being turned into a victim if she puts herself in a vulnerable situation. I don't know what the solutions are. I just see that as reality at this moment.

 

[The Duke]

Carry guns and know how to use them.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Every decent person agrees that rape/sexual assault is wrong. No one is defending predators or excusing their behavior. In a perfect world, women would be able to wear what they want, go where they please, and never worry about their safety, but this isn’t a perfect world, and pretending it is doesn’t help anyone stay safe. In reality, sexual predators exist. Some men are dangerous. That’s not fair to women, but it is true, and while it’s not a woman’s fault if she is attacked, it’s also not wrong to talk about risk and awareness. What someone wears can be noticed. It can spark attention. That doesn't mean a woman is asking for it, but we shouldn’t ignore that visual triggers do affect how some men behave, especially in places where safety is already low. Saying “men need to control themselves” is morally right, but it’s not a plan. Until all danger disappears, people, especially women, should be empowered to think about their surroundings, their appearance, and their choices, not because they’re to blame, but because they should do what they can to stay safe in an unsafe world.

Short skirts and 9mms. Oh shit i just described my wife.

 

[Anomalism]

and know how to use them.

There's a lot of LEO in my family. This part is harder than it sounds. It takes a lot of practice, and not just at the range. It's a different thing in a real situation when somebody is trying to make you a victim. For the most part though, I agree. I don't think it's an airtight solution though.

 

[Donald H]

We're not there yet. Hopefully we will be one day. Today though, a woman can't count on not being turned into a victim if she puts herself in a vulnerable situation. I don't know what the solutions are. I just see that as reality at this moment.

If you have no idea on solutiins then the discussion has no further interest for me.
Pursue it further with the Dook. He has a solution that you might find worth your time.

 

[Anathema]

So far here, the onus is being placed on women and that's a socially wrong attitude IMO.

It’s a dual-sided issue. Obviously people should not be robbing,, assaulting, raping, or otherwise victimizing other people. That’s a given.

However, I have a much harder time feeling sympathy for those individuals who have put themselves in a more dangerous situation than they need to.

 

[The Duke]

There's a lot of LEO in my family. This part is harder than it sounds. It takes a lot of practice, and not just at the range. It's a different thing in a real situation when somebody is trying to make you a victim. For the most part though, I agree. I don't think it's an airtight solution though.

It's not; At all, but it's the best chance they'll have.
Some physical training and shooting training should be done.
Situational awareness, all of it.
Ya just stay away from some people.

 

[Donald H]

It’s a dual-sided issue. Obviously people should not be robbing,, assaulting, raping, or otherwise victimizing other people. That’s a given.

However, I have a much harder time feeling sympathy for those individuals who have put themselves in a more dangerous situation than they need to.

We only differ in that I feel sympathy for all women who are sexually molested. They're victims of crimes of violence.

I'm a Canadian and as a general rule we're more leftist than Americans.

 

[Anathema]

We only differ in that I feel sympathy for all women who are sexually molested. They're victims of crimes of violence.

I'm a Canadian and as a general rule we're more leftist than Americans.

My wife is a rape survivor. She was 12-13 years old when it happened. I feel total sympathy for her. I feel far less sympathy for a former do-worker of mine who led a guy on in a bar (her description) when she was a college student and got sexually assaulted for her troubles.

 

[Donald H]

My wife is a rape survivor. She was 12-13 years old when it happened. I feel total sympathy for her. I feel far less sympathy for a former do-worker of mine who led a guy on in a bar (her description) when she was a college student and got sexually assaulted for her troubles.

12 to 13 years old in a bar?
Your brain is too full.

 

[Anathema]

12 to 13 years old in a bar?
Your brain is too full.

You misread that…. My wife was raped multiple times over a 15-16 months period when she was 12-13 years old by her fathers best friend.

A former co-worker of mine was sexually assaulted/raped when she was in college. She was at a bar, she repeatedly led a gentleman on about her willingness and intentions (by her own admission) and he didn’t take kindly to it.

 

[Donald H]

We're not there yet. Hopefully we will be one day. Today though, a woman can't count on not being turned into a victim if she puts herself in a vulnerable situation. I don't know what the solutions are. I just see that as reality at this moment.

The solution IMO is social responsibility toward women. I won't elaborate here on this thread; it's not worth it.

I'm a Canadian and we in general are more leftist than Americans.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Another thing to remember is that guys can be a victim of such activity too. I'll never forget about what happened to country singer Tim McGraw years ago during one of his shows. While he was out there in the crowd, a woman grabbed him by his half mark and not from behind either and what made her actions even worse is the fact that she grabbed Tim while Faith was there on the stage who of course is Tim's wife. I don't know if Tim said anything to the woman, but Faith sure as heck did and I do not blame her or Tim! She called out to the lady through her microphone, "Someone needs to teach you some class, my friend! You don't go grabbing another woman's husband like that! It is very disrespectful!"

God bless you and Tim and Faith always!!!

Holly (a girl gets permission before she does anything)

P.S. To me, everyone regardless of their gender has every right to speak up when they feel like they have been violated in any way.