Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[JoeB131]

Israel is the land of Canaan that God gave to the Jews for their homeland in Old Testament times. Moses led the people out of Egypt to this land. It was the site of the Temple, the kingdom of David, the ancient lands of Israel and Judah. There is no place in Europe or anywhere on Earth as sacred or important to the Jewish history and culture.

1) THere is no God.
2) The Ancient Hebrews never lived in Egypt.
3) The European Jews are not descended from the Hebrews.

 

[JoeB131]

Very few Jews are calling what is happening a ”genocide.” Those that are are radical leftists, secular, and whose misguided sense of liberalism trumps their concern for antisemitism.

"It's Okay when we do it!"

 

[Foxfyre]

1) THere is no God.
2) The Ancient Hebrews never lived in Egypt.
3) The European Jews are not descended from the Hebrews.

Have a nice day Joe. You cannot make any kind of a case that your beliefs are any more true or important than the belief of the Jews. And only the most hateful person would try to destroy their faith.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Muslims "conquered" North Africa and the Middle East.

Europeans conquered the Americas, Australia, Much of Africa and Asia, and committed outright genocide in many cases.

 

[buttercup]

As abhorent the comments made in the video are, they are made as individuals (yes, even the ones made by government officials) and I don't believe most of them demonstrate genocidal intent. We can discuss, if you'd like.

In terms of Israeli policy, generally, though. her intent has been clear from the beginning:

Return the hostages. Dismantle Hamas' military infrastructure. Destroy Hamas ability to commit another atrocity.

Note we are discussing intent here, not success. These are not genocidal intents, and Israel has followed with her very limited intent by scrupulously following or exceeding the requirements for IHL, by evacuating areas of battle, by providing warnings for civilians, by creating and protecting humanitarian corridors, by giving humanitarian pauses, by ensuring aid supplies, by targeting military objectives and personnel to the extent possible given the conditions.

Well, don't take this the wrong way... I'm not making a claim here one way or the other, but simply for the sake of argument... IF the Israeli government (as opposed to some individuals within the government) had genocidal intent, do you really think their official policy would openly state that? No, that would be a foolish thing for any government to do.

As for your last paragraph, I think you and I talked about this on another thread. While what you're saying sounds good, and is what we hear from the MSM, I have heard numerous conflicting reports in regard to all those things you mentioned. And not from Israel's enemies, but from a number of organizations that are more neutral, like Doctors without Borders and others.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not making any definitive claims or taking a side, but when it comes to war, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt.... and I am not guided by tribalism, partisanship or anything like that. To me the only thing that matters is the truth. And as the saying goes, truth is the first casualty of war.

 

[Shusha]

Well, don't take this the wrong way... I'm not making a claim here one way or the other, but simply for the sake of argument... IF the Israeli government (as opposed to some individuals within the government) had genocidal intent, do you really think their official policy would openly state that? No, that would be a foolish thing for any government to do.

As for your last paragraph, I think you and I talked about this on another thread. While what you're saying sounds good, and is what we hear from the MSM, I have heard numerous conflicting reports in regard to all those things you mentioned. And not from Israel's enemies, but from a number of organizations that are more neutral, like Doctors without Borders and others.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not making any definitive claims or taking a side, but when it comes to war, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt.... and I am not guided by tribalism, partisanship or anything like that. To me the only thing that matters is the truth. And as the saying goes, truth is the first casualty of war.

Interesting that you brought up Doctors without Borders. Weren't they making up wild, unsubstantiated conclusions based on insufficient evidence from a certain wound type?

 

[Shusha]

I have heard numerous conflicting reports in regard to all those things you mentioned.

Feel free to share. I'd especially be interested in reports which demonstrate that Israel did not evacuate civilians, did not provide humanitarian corridors, did not give warnings by leaflet, texts, calls, and drones, did not ensure aid was able to enter the area in question.

I've heard lots of people repeating these things, but not seen any substantial evidence that this is routine or policy. (I have seen a few individual events).

 

[buttercup]

Feel free to share. I'd especially be interested in reports which demonstrate that Israel did not evacuate civilians, did not provide humanitarian corridors, did not give warnings by leaflet, texts, calls, and drones, did not ensure aid was able to enter the area in question.

I've heard lots of people repeating these things, but not seen any substantial evidence that this is routine or policy. (I have seen a few individual events).

I don't know about you, but I don't bookmark every article or video I've ever come across that contradicts the official version of events. Apparently I should have done that.... but I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what I share, you'd probably find a way to deny it or explain it away.

There's just WAY too much stuff to get into. Starting from the creation of "Hamas" itself. But I will share a short clip on that. Again, direct quotes from those in the know....

 

[Lisa558]

I don't know about you, but I don't bookmark every article or video I've ever come across that contradicts the official version of events. Apparently I should have done that.... but I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what I share, you'd probably find a way to deny it or explain it away.

There's just WAY too much stuff to get into. Starting from the creation of "Hamas" itself. But I will share a short clip on that. Again, direct quotes from those in the know....


View attachment 1015987

So…..HAMAS massacred 1200 innocent Jews in a savage, barbaric attack - and you’re looking for a way to blame the Jews?

The idea that Israel financed a terrorist organization that had as its goal the elimination of Israel seems realistic to you?! Are you THAT eager to find a reason to blame the Jews?

FYI, HAMAS was not a terrorist organization at the time. It was - or was masquerading as - a social welfare organization designed to Palestinians.

 

[fncceo]

they can kill 20 Palestinians in order to take out "1 low-level Hamas [leader]" what would you call this?

A genuine bargain

 

[Shusha]

I don't know about you, but I don't bookmark every article or video I've ever come across that contradicts the official version of events. Apparently I should have done that.... but I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what I share, you'd probably find a way to deny it or explain it away.

I can't think of a single reason I would have to "deny or explain away" the obvious facts that Israel did all of the things I listed in my last post. I would guess that anything you have read which contradicts this suggests a lack of success in various individual events, rather than a proof of intent.

I do occasionally bookmark primary source documents which are hard to find, but I am very very well-read on this topic and can usually find articles rather quickly. YMMV.

 

[dudmuck]

I don't know about you, but I don't bookmark every article or video I've ever come across that contradicts the official version of events. Apparently I should have done that.... but I'm starting to get the feeling that no matter what I share, you'd probably find a way to deny it or explain it away.

There's just WAY too much stuff to get into. Starting from the creation of "Hamas" itself. But I will share a short clip on that. Again, direct quotes from those in the know....


View attachment 1015987

yes. Supporting Hamas weakens the Palestinian authority in the west bank, which also prevents a two state solution.

 

[Shusha]

yes. Supporting Hamas weakens the Palestinian authority in the west bank, which also prevents a two state solution.

The only thing preventing a two-state solution is violent terrorism, which is overwhelmingly committed by the Arabs.

 

[buttercup]

So…..HAMAS massacred 1200 innocent Jews in a savage, barbaric attack - and you’re looking for a way to blame the Jews?

The idea that Israel financed a terrorist organization that had as its goal the elimination of Israel seems realistic to you?! Are you THAT eager to find a reason to blame the Jews?

FYI, HAMAS was not a terrorist organization at the time. It was - or was masquerading as - a social welfare organization designed to Palestinians.

No, I don't blame Jews for what a politician does any more than I would blame Christians for what U.S politicians who claim to be Christian do. Netanyahu is not even religious, it has been said he's an atheist.

But to reply to what you said about how Hamas started off...I'll look into that, but right off the bat that doesn't make sense, because the whole point (according to those who stated that Israel funded and helped to create Hamas) was to be able to point to the opposition as hostile and crazy. If they were a social welfare organization, how would that go along with that strategy?

Here is a quote that says basically just that:

Israeli Defense Intelligence Chief Amos Yadlin said in 2007: “Israel would be happy if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state.”


ETA: another video on that topic:

 

[Carl in Michigan]

yes. Supporting Hamas weakens the Palestinian authority in the west bank, which also prevents a two state solution.

A divided Israel will never happen. "Palestine" is a man-made creation. It is not God's plan for the Land of Israel

 

[Carl in Michigan]

If they were a social welfare organization, how would that go along with that strategy?

Here is a quote that says basically just that:

Israeli Defense Intelligence Chief Amos Yadlin said in 2007: “Israel would be happy if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state.”

Israel propped up what, AT THE TIME, was the "lesser of two evils."
Yadlin sad this AFTER Hamas gained political power and AFTER Hamas committed these crimes:

Jan. 25, 2006 - Hamas wins a majority of seats in a Palestinian legislative election. Israel and United States cut off aid to Palestinians because Hamas refuses to renounce violence and recognise Israel.
June 25, 2006 - Hamas militants capture Israeli conscript Gilad Shalit in a cross-border raid, prompting Israeli air strikes and incursions. Shalit is finally freed over five years later in a prisoner exchange

 

[Carl in Michigan]

1) THere is no God.
2) The Ancient Hebrews never lived in Egypt.
3) The European Jews are not descended from the Hebrews.

Who was King David?
Where is Solomon's Temple?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Interesting that you brought up Doctors without Borders. Weren't they making up wild, unsubstantiated conclusions based on insufficient evidence from a certain wound type?

Definitely an anti-Israel bias. They've made THEMSELVES political

MSF-Spain has made it clear that it is marching to the same beat, publishing a short video glorifying 14-year old Palestinian Ahed Tamimi. The non-medical video claims disingenuously that “every Friday the village [of Nabi Saleh] demonstrates peacefully” against Israeli policy, thus omitting the numerous planned, directed and premeditated violent incidents instigated by the villagers, including by Tamimi herself.

During the video interview, Tamimi is pictured under posters of family members whom she refers to as “martyrs.” One of them, Muataz Washaha, was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and was wanted for planning and carrying out terror attacks across the West Bank. The PFLP is recognized as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, Canada, and the European Union, and its logo is clearly identifiable on the poster

Why Doctors Without Borders Has an Israel Problem

On June 30, 2016, Jason Cone, Executive Director of Medecins Sans Frontiers-USA (MSF-USA, Doctors Without Borders) attempted to defend his organization from scrutiny over its politicized, anti-Israel bias. He did so through a strawman argument, claiming that his organization was being falsely...

forward.com

 

[Lisa558]

No, I don't blame Jews for what a politician does any more than I would blame Christians for what U.S politicians who claim to be Christian do. Netanyahu is not even religious, it has been said he's an atheist.

But to reply to what you said about how Hamas started off...I'll look into that, but right off the bat that doesn't make sense, because the whole point (according to those who stated that Israel funded and helped to create Hamas) was to be able to point to the opposition as hostile and crazy. If they were a social welfare organization, how would that go along with that strategy?

Here is a quote that says basically just that:

Israeli Defense Intelligence Chief Amos Yadlin said in 2007: “Israel would be happy if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state.”


ETA: another video on that topic:

You sure are looking for ways to blame Israel, aren’t you?

At the time, HAMAS was - or pretended to be - a social support organization with little expressed hatred toward the Jews. It makes perfect sense for Israel to support the mild HAMAS (at the time) against its terrorist opposition. Only later did HAMAS was taken over by the savages who run it today.

As far as the two-state solution, why do you not point to the times (plural) that Israel made land-for-peace offers, and the Palestinians rejected them? One of the offers gave them 95% of what the Jew-haters wanted, but they STILL turned it down, and why? Because Israel conditioned it on the Arabs recognizing Israel’s right to exist - and they refused!

So why work so hard to make Israel look bad, when they have made peace offers they have been rejected? And that HAMAS broke the cease-fire to savagely torture to death as many innocent Jews as they could find?

That we have so many people so driven by bias against Jews that they look for ways to blame the Jewish state - and on a thread about the antisemitic propaganda of the genocide lie - is both tragic and chilling.

 

[Lisa558]

Interesting that you brought up Doctors without Borders. Weren't they making up wild, unsubstantiated conclusions based on insufficient evidence from a certain wound type?

Ah…..interesting. Years ago I donated to Doctors Without Borders but stopped when their bias became so apparent.