Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[Sherlock Holmes]

There was nothing to prevent the Jews seeking self-determination. The Arab squatters never managed to do that.

That's true and that's because the British reneged on their treaty with the Arabs.

 

[Hollie]

Whether they can be said to have held "sovereignty" is arguable, what is not arguable is that they lived there at the time the British were colluding with the Zionists.

That's not true, the indigenous were referred to as "Palestinian" decades before Israel was founded.

There is nothing arguable about the lack of sovereignty held by the Arab squatters. They held no borders to any sovereign territory.

 

[Hollie]

That's true and that's because the British reneged on their treaty with the Arabs.

Oh, gee. Those poor, Arab squatters. Someone didn’t keep a promise?

 

[Shusha]

They lived there before the Anglo-Norman invasion in the 12 century, this is much the same as the Arabs who lived in the Levant before huge numbers of foreign Jews colonized it in the early 20th century.

So, your criteria for indigeneity is "they lived there before invasion and colonization"? Is that the only criteria?

 

[Hollie]

Arabs that lived there lived there, what is unclear about this?

“Arabs that lived there”. When does occupation of land equate to ownership?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There is nothing arguable about the lack of sovereignty held by the Arab squatters.

The British had formally agreed to support Arab self determination in Palestine, this is embodied in the McMahon–Hussein correspondence. That establishes an implied sovereignty. The British reneged and betrayed the Arabs though.

They held no borders to any sovereign territory.

So? I'm speaking of the rights of indigenous people, not pieces on a geopolitical board game where the white colonial powers impose borders, controls and so on.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Oh, gee. Those poor, Arab squatters. Someone didn’t keep a promise?

It was a treaty agreed between the British Crown and Arab leaders.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

“Arabs that lived there”. When does occupation of land equate to ownership?

I never talked about "ownership" these are terms that have a meaning under British Law and might have a rather different meaning under Arab law.

 

[Hollie]

The British had formally agreed to support Arab self determination in Palestine, this is embodied in the McMahon–Hussein correspondence. That establishes an implied sovereignty. The British reneged and betrayed the Arabs though.

So? I'm speaking of the rights of indigenous people, not pieces on a geopolitical board game where the white colonial powers impose borders, controls and so on.

The British were never tasked with creating Arab -Moslem self-determination. That would have had to be a principle and actions taken by the Arabs. They were unable or unwilling. The white British had no responsibility to carve out land and maintain sovereignty for the brown Arabs-Moslems.

 

[Hollie]

It was a treaty agreed between the British Crown and Arab leaders.

Email the Brits and demand they keep their promise, or, get your gee-had on and become the savior of the Arabs-Moslems.

 

[Hollie]

The British had formally agreed to support Arab self determination in Palestine, this is embodied in the McMahon–Hussein correspondence. That establishes an implied sovereignty. The British reneged and betrayed the Arabs though.

So? I'm speaking of the rights of indigenous people, not pieces on a geopolitical board game where the white colonial powers impose borders, controls and so on.

When were the self-entitled Pal’istanians indigenous to Ottoman controlled territory?

 

[Shusha]

The British had formally agreed to support Arab self determination in Palestine, this is embodied in the McMahon–Hussein correspondence. That establishes an implied sovereignty. The British reneged and betrayed the Arabs though.

There IS Arab self-determination in the territory of Mandatory Palestine.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The British were never tasked with creating Arab -Moslem self-determination.

The British agreed to support Arab self determination if the Arabs assisted the British in routing the Ottoman's the Arabs did and the British reneged.

That would have had to be a principle and actions taken by the Arabs. They were unable or unwilling. The white British had no responsibility to carve out land and maintain sovereignty for the brown Arabs-Moslems.

The people in the Levant were living under British rule, Arabs, Jews etc. They lived there and were under British rule. The British had agreed to support Arab self determination but they reneged, that is an abdication of responsibility.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Email the Brits and demand they keep their promise, or, get your gee-had on and become the savior of the Arabs-Moslems.

I hoped we were having an adult discourse, clearly I misjudged you, so that's enough of that.

 

[Hollie]

I never talked about "ownership" these are terms that have a meaning under British Law and might have a rather different meaning under Arab law.

Under an ottoman law, much of the territory they controlled was considered waqf. That is territory conquered by Islamics that becomes Moslem land in perpetuity

You should learn yout Koranology. In Islam, the war of gee-had and conquest is holy (although it is not seen as war by Moslems) because it is for the purpose of expanding muhammud's domain on Earth. It is commanded of the faithful, and it is a duty imposed on moslems. According to sharia, territories which are gained through gee-had become waqf, and cannot thereafter be given up. They become, literally, an inseverable part of muhammud's dominion, for the sole welfare of Ummah’istan. If territories acquired by Islam are taken by infidels, they must be retaken in gee-had—today, tomorrow, sooner or later. It is a religious obligation. This is because what belongs to muhammud cannot be taken from those who are on Earth to serve him. For this reason, Israel will never have peace with Moslems so long as Islam remains in its current, unreformed state. When Khalifah Omar took Jerusalem in 638 CE, he made the area which is now Israel an Islamic waqf. In their charter, Hamas demonstrates how their right to destroy Israel is simply a religious obligation to muhammud through the principle of waqf

 

[toomuchtime_]

Save it for those who buy that bullshit, there was no Country called Israel either there was land with a few Jews and many Arabs living there, then the British decided to give it to European Jews no matter what the people already living there thought about it, the British have a lot to answer for.

The people living there thought Jews and Christians were inferior to Muslims and should have to endure humiliating restrictions on theif lives and pay discriminatory taxes.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

What the Arabs could not forgive the British or the Jews for is the loss of their special status in their apartheid states.

Far from the British giving the land to Jews. despite their early promises, by 1930, it became clear they planned to give it to the Arabs. Although the British had initially promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine and encouraged immigration, by 1930, it was clear they had changed their minds and were about to reverse their policy, now favoring the Arabs. They took 77% of Palestine to create the Arab state of Jordan, passed laws restricting where Jews could live, tried to end Jewish immigration to Palestine, and published a white paper presenting the bogus argument that the land was too small to accommodate anymore Jewish immigration, despite the fact that the Jews provided three brigades to fight alongside British and Australian special forces and the Arabs supported the Nazis, the British built twelve concentration camps in Cyprus in which Jews who attempted to reach Palestine were imprisoned. British attitudes towards Jews in Palestine came closer and closer to Nazi or Muslim attitudes towards Jews, and the British were deservedly vilified in the West for their actions against the Jews in Palestine and kicked out of Palestine by the Jews, soon to become Israel, just as the British kicked the Jews out of England in 1290.

All of this because the Muslims refused to treat Christians and Jews as equals under the law.

 

[Hollie]

I hoped we were having an adult discourse, clearly I misjudged you, so that's enough of that.

Oh, dear. Did I hurt your feelings?

 

[Hollie]

The British agreed to support Arab self determination if the Arabs assisted the British in routing the Ottoman's the Arabs did and the British reneged.

The people in the Levant were living under British rule, Arabs, Jews etc. They lived there and were under British rule. The British had agreed to support Arab self determination but they reneged, that is an abdication of responsibility.

Arabs never routed the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of WW1.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The people living there thought Jews and Christians were inferior to Muslims and should have to endure humiliating restrictions on theif lives and pay discriminatory taxes.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

What the Arabs could not forgive the British or the Jews for is the loss of their special status in their apartheid states.

Far from the British giving the land to Jews. despite their early promises, by 1930, it became clear they planned to give it to the Arabs. Although the British had initially promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine and encouraged immigration, by 1930, it was clear they had changed their minds and were about to reverse their policy, now favoring the Arabs. They took 77% of Palestine to create the Arab state of Jordan, passed laws restricting where Jews could live, tried to end Jewish immigration to Palestine, and published a white paper presenting the bogus argument that the land was too small to accommodate anymore Jewish immigration, despite the fact that the Jews provided three brigades to fight alongside British and Australian special forces and the Arabs supported the Nazis, the British built twelve concentration camps in Cyprus in which Jews who attempted to reach Palestine were imprisoned. British attitudes towards Jews in Palestine came closer and closer to Nazi or Muslim attitudes towards Jews, and the British were deservedly vilified in the West for their actions against the Jews in Palestine and kicked out of Palestine by the Jews, soon to become Israel, just as the British kicked the Jews out of England in 1290.

All of this because the Muslims refused to treat Christians and Jews as equals under the law.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Zionists will stop at nothing to justify their illegal occupation, the taking of hostages, shooting kids, demolishing homes, terrorizing villages, forcibly taking land, bombing hospitals, killing journalists, shutting down the press, and raping male prisoners.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Arabs never routed the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of WW1.

I never said the "Arabs routed the Ottomans".