Abraham Lincoln on trial

[paperview]

As I told you in your stupid Speilberg thread on Lincoln:

There you go again...Like Thomas Jefferson, I could show you quotes that would convince you he was a deeply religious man.

I could also show you just as many quotes that would convince he was an atheist. (as many deemed him at the time)

Lincoln was complex, but anyone who has studied his history knows his dedication to the cause; Union first, anti-slavery as a backdrop. Pragmatism.

All you do is cherrypick quotes - no depth to your analysis. It's why most people dismiss you.


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decisions, decisions...

Who am I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes?

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I'd go with your lying eyes, as you appear to be incapable of any comprehensive analysis.

 

[Contumacious]

We were going off a fiscal cliff that makes the present threat look like small peanuts. To have let the auto industry die would have put us into the Second Great Republican Depression. To fail to do what is neccessary in the name of ideology is a form of insanity. As for increasing taxes, the primary driver of the present deficits are the Bush tax cuts. I say bring back the tax rates under Clinton for everybody. And add 5% on the incomes above one million. 5% at least, really, should make the Buffet Rule the law of the land. And all income should be taxed at the same rate.

HUH?

Is fascism/socialism not an ideology?

Is the fact that the POTUS has NO CONSTITUTIONAL authority to bail out anything or anyone not a lawful reason.?!?!?

You know many thieves claim that the stolen money helped them tremendously. Ask Bernie Madoff.

Should we then legalize theft?

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You mean to suggest we haven't already?

We have.

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yes, indeed we have,

But "Justice" Roberts and other scumbags refer to it as taxation.

But the powers-that-be have not yet agreed that PRIVATE criminals can call their thievery taxation.

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[Votto]

The right of States to retain the right to secede was not only discussed at the Convention, it was rejected.

What we have here is Madison saying that to secede would be considered unconstitutional. However, when the government then trashes his interpretation of the General Welfare clause by subverting a limited government, his own words, by adopting the nanny state the Constitution has already been usurped, then who is the one upholding the Constitution? Is it those that ignore it's orginal intent and wording or the ones that wish to secede from those who ignore it?

 

[Votto]

Corwin was a last ditch effort and really had no true punch or legitimacy.

Lincoln was complex, but anyone who has studied his history knows his dedication to the cause; Union first, anti-slavery as a backdrop. Pragmatism.

All you do is cherrypick quotes - no depth to your analysis. It's why most people dismiss you.


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I would agree with this, however, for the sake of argument, lets say that Lincoln was on the side of slave owners and the South was trying to free them. Would you then still defend his actions just because he preserved the union?

 

[Contumacious]

As I told you in your stupid Speilberg thread on Lincoln:

There you go again...Like Thomas Jefferson, I could show you quotes that would convince you he was a deeply religious man.

I could also show you just as many quotes that would convince he was an atheist. (as many deemed him at the time)

Lincoln was complex, but anyone who has studied his history knows his dedication to the cause; Union first, anti-slavery as a backdrop. Pragmatism.

All you do is cherrypick quotes - no depth to your analysis. It's why most people dismiss you.


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decisions, decisions...

Who am I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes?

.

I'd go with your lying eyes, as you appear to be incapable of any comprehensive analysis.

Tell me again about your comprehensive analysis showing that Adolf Hitler was misunderstood because he really loved the Jews.

.

 

[Barb]

HUH?

Is fascism/socialism not an ideology?

Is the fact that the POTUS has NO CONSTITUTIONAL authority to bail out anything or anyone not a lawful reason.?!?!?

You know many thieves claim that the stolen money helped them tremendously. Ask Bernie Madoff.

Should we then legalize theft?

.

You mean to suggest we haven't already?

We have.

.

yes, indeed we have,

But "Justice" Roberts and other scumbags refer to it as taxation.

But the powers-that-be have not yet agreed that PRIVATE criminals can call their thievery taxation.

.

Please don't truncate my response and act like you're responding to what I actually said. It's disrespectful, and I don't do it to you.

In regard to Madoff, he worked skirting the law, but if his sentence was to run consecutively, like anyone who stole a pizza would, he'd die in jail. Justice works differently for the rich scumbags. If his scam ran against poor people, he wouldn't even have been tried.

 

[Contumacious]

What we have here is Madison saying that to secede would be considered unconstitutional. ?

HUH? WTF?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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[Barb]

decisions, decisions...

Who am I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes?

.

I'd go with your lying eyes, as you appear to be incapable of any comprehensive analysis.

Tell me again about your comprehensive analysis showing that Adolf Hitler was misunderstood because he really loved the Jews.

.

Probably that was Nietzsche. He was used to promote antisemitism.

 

[Contumacious]

You mean to suggest we haven't already?

We have.

.

yes, indeed we have,

But "Justice" Roberts and other scumbags refer to it as taxation.

But the powers-that-be have not yet agreed that PRIVATE criminals can call their thievery taxation.

.

In regard to Madoff, he worked skirting the law,.

But WHY is it that you don't consider Obama Hellcare as "skirting " the law?


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[paperview]

I would agree with this, however, for the sake of argument, lets say that Lincoln was on the side of slave owners and the South was trying to free them. Would you then still defend his actions just because he preserved the union?

If Lincoln was on the side of the slave owners, there would have been no secession under his Administration.

 

[paperview]

decisions, decisions...

Who am I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes?

.

I'd go with your lying eyes, as you appear to be incapable of any comprehensive analysis.

Tell me again about your comprehensive analysis showing that Adolf Hitler was misunderstood because he really loved the Jews.

.

Can't get more ugly than comparing Lincoln to Hitler.

Godwin says: You lose.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

#s 4 and 7 seem to be total BS.

4) The Constitution plainly gives the president the power to suspend habeus corpus.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. Article I, Section 9.

7) Unable to find any evidence of the Union hiring mercenaries. If there were any during the war, Southern blockade runners seem to be the only group where foreigners were in it solely for the money.

The other points can be open to interpretation, but these two seem to be the most easily debunked.

4) The Constitution plainly gives the president the power to suspend habeus corpus.

At that time, perhaps; at least to the extent Lincoln suspended the writ in good faith.

Subsequently, however, the Supreme Court required that the courts in a given jurisdiction be unable to function in order to allow marital law or the suspension of habeas. See: Ex parte Milligan

 

[rightwinger]

yes, indeed we have,

But "Justice" Roberts and other scumbags refer to it as taxation.

But the powers-that-be have not yet agreed that PRIVATE criminals can call their thievery taxation.

.

In regard to Madoff, he worked skirting the law,.

But WHY is it that you don't consider Obama Hellcare as "skirting " the law?


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Which law would that be?

 

[Contumacious]

I would agree with this, however, for the sake of argument, lets say that Lincoln was on the side of slave owners and the South was trying to free them. Would you then still defend his actions just because he preserved the union?

If Lincoln was on the side of the slave owners, there would have been no secession under his Administration.

So prior to Fort Sumter, the scumbag had threatened to invade the South and murder 620,000 Americans?

.

 

[Contumacious]

I'd go with your lying eyes, as you appear to be incapable of any comprehensive analysis.

Tell me again about your comprehensive analysis showing that Adolf Hitler was misunderstood because he really loved the Jews.

.

Can't get more ugly than comparing Lincoln to Hitler.

Godwin says: You lose.

Incorrect.

Contumacious Corollary:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

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[paperview]

So prior to Fort Sumter, the scumbag had threatened to invade the South and murder 620,000 Americans?

With each post you make less and less sense.

And here I thought that could not be possible.

 

[Contumacious]

In regard to Madoff, he worked skirting the law,.

But WHY is it that you don't consider Obama Hellcare as "skirting " the law?


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Which law would that be?

" A tax, in the general understanding of the term, and as used in the Constitution, signifies an exaction for the support of the government. The word has never been thought to connote the expropriation of money from one group for the benefit of another."


U.S. v. BUTLER, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

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[JakeStarkey]

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

As usual, the facts don't follow the progressive agenda, expecially historical facts.

Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment which would have protected slavery in the states that it already existed in. Here is a link to facts about Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment:

Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment « Crossroads

Of particular interest is this quote by Lincoln:

"Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington. I suppose, however, this does not meet the case. You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us."

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lincoln was not, of course, Contumacious, not in favor of Dred Scott, and your post says nothing about slavery. It is a quote from the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

Corwin was a last ditch effort and really had no true punch or legitimacy.

Was Lincoln in favor of the Dred Scott decision?

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Abraham Lincoln
Lincoln- Douglas Debates


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[Contumacious]

So prior to Fort Sumter, the scumbag had threatened to invade the South and murder 620,000 Americans?

With each post you make less and less sense.

And here I thought that could not be possible.

Bwahahahaha

Go consume some L-tryptophan , do some additional research and repost.

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