Abortion = Social JUSTICE?

[Ravi]

I'd bet that NOT ONE female that has gotten an abortion or who is considering one, EVER THOUGHT that she was having an abortion to support the political movement of Population Control...

You're called 'useful idiots' for a reason...

Sure, because our planet is in grave danger of being underpopulated?

Apparently he doesn't like women. Useful idiots, indeed. Course, he probably couldn't get one to reproduce with him if he tried.

 

[JBeukema]

I'd bet that NOT ONE female that has gotten an abortion or who is considering one, EVER THOUGHT that she was having an abortion to support the political movement of Population Control...

You're called 'useful idiots' for a reason...

Sure, because our planet is in grave danger of being underpopulated?

You do realize that your post is totally non sequitur, right.If I had been arguing for increased reproduction, your pathetic attack might make sense. I was not, and your post does not.

 

[Anguille]

The funny thing is, Babble, is that you are the one that supports eugenics since you've expressed over and over that women don't have a right to choose when to reproduce. I, on the other hand, support the exact opposite.

 

[JBeukema]

Once again Ravi demonstrates her stupidity. This time Anguille joins in. Allie never said women have no choice about when to reproduce. Hell, go ahead and ask her:

Allie,. should women be allowed to choose to have sex? Should they be allowed to demand condoms bu used? Should they be allowed to use spermicidal foams, females condoms, and BC to prevent pregnancy?

Unless she answers 'no' to every one of these questions, your moronic attack is nothing but a strawman and a red herring that shows you to be not only stupid, but also dishonest.

 

[Anguille]

I'd bet that NOT ONE female that has gotten an abortion or who is considering one, EVER THOUGHT that she was having an abortion to support the political movement of Population Control...

While I agree that the primary reasons women have abortions are personal ones, I don't see why feeling a moral responsibility to not add to over population might not be part of a woman's decision? Lots of people either don't have kids or have restricted their family size because of concerns about the environment and overpopulation.

Maybe I misunderstood your post.

 

[Anguille]

Once again Ravi demonstrates her stupidity. This time Anguille joins in. Allie never said women have no choice about when to reproduce. Hell, go ahead and ask her:

Allie,. should women be allowed to choose to have sex? Should they be allowed to demand condoms bu used? Should they be allowed to use spermicidal foams, females condoms, and BC to prevent pregnancy?

Unless she answers 'no' to every one of these questions, your moronic attack is nothing but a strawman and a red herring that shows you to be not only stupid, but also dishonest.

You are extraordinarily naive if you think that because modern medicine now makes birth control possible in ways never available before, that the need for access to abortion no longer exists.

 

[JBeukema]

Demonstrate a need and also stop evading the matter and prove how Allie denies women their right to decide to decide whether they want to have children. Also demonstrate how bneing pro-life equals supporting eugenics, when the major eugenics movement in America was predominantly negative eugenics, which supports abortion and keeping women from reproducing.

 

[Anguille]

*doubling the amount of my donation to PP due to increased awareness of crazy fanatics out there in the world.*

Course, cant engage in any sort of intellectual discussion with anyone so you label them crazy and pretend as though no one else exists. Great method when you know youve got nothing to argue.

Listen Avatardo, you show up late at night after I've been debating for a couple of hours and you think I'm going to stick around and do the 3 ring circus with you all over again?

I've debated this issue with you before, contributed to endless threads here on abortion. One thing I've learned is that some people aren't even worth responding to. They are not here to understand anything further or gain new insights. They just mindlessly spit out the same old slogans and propaganda. Why deprive myself of a good night's sleep just to provide these clowns with an audience?

 

[tigerbob]

That was a popular stance among Republicans for years, remember?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/73750-republicans-population-control-and-abortion.html

Oh, my bad again. I thought you'd posted something factual, but it was a link to the Flame Zone.

Apparently my thread was moved to the flame zone because it was a little to shocking for the Republicans to discover that they were for population control at one time. But here are some links from within the thread.

Birth Control 'for All People' - The New York Times

PRESIDENT NIXON'S SPECIAL MESSAGE ON POPULATION - The Life and Death of NSSM 200 - Chapter 1

National Security Study Memorandum 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah, OK, thanks for that.

So, you want to make a point about Republicans at one stage being for birth control (or population control as it appears to have been called in some cases, though I don't think the two terms are directly interchangeable).

As such, the links are interesting, but I'm not really surprised. I'll leave it to a Republican to take issue with that view if they want to, though I personally think your point above (the one I bolded) is just you being deliberately contentious. But whatever.

IMO, the Republican party has, in recent years, been heavily influenced by the pro life lobby, which I think is a shame. It seems rather absurd to me that a person who believes in small government, capitalism, and "hand up rather than hand out" has little realistic choice but to vote for a party that endorses the pro life agenda.

For example, I'm a capitalist and a Christian but I am also pro choice. Whenever I express an opinion one way or another I am automatically assumed to have other 'baggage' as well. This means I often end up having to waste time pointing out to one wing or another that A and B does not always equal C.

Anyway, thanks for posting the links which I did actually find interesting and informative.

 

[Anguille]

Demonstrate a need and also stop evading the matter and prove how Allie denies women their right to decide to decide whether they want to have children. Also demonstrate how bneing pro-life equals supporting eugenics, when the major eugenics movement in America was predominantly negative eugenics, which supports abortion and keeping women from reproducing.

No birth control method is 100% effective, not even abstinence because even nuns get raped, therefore despite the best of intentions, an increasingly smaller number of women will suffer an unwanted pregnancy.

Did I really have to spell it out for you, dimwit?

 

[tigerbob]

Ah, I didn't realize you were a fan of the third reich. Cool.

Now you're just being silly.

 

[Anguille]

IMO, the Republican party has, in recent years, been heavily influenced by the pro life lobby, which I think is a shame. It seems rather absurd to me that a person who believes in small government, capitalism, and "hand up rather than hand out" has little realistic choice but to vote for a party that endorses the pro life agenda.

When The Democratic Party came out in support of civil rights for blacks they lost a lot of the Southern vote. The Republicans saw the opportunity and swooped in offering to endorse anti choice and racist agendas in return for votes. Before that, religious Southern anti choicers mostly kept their motivations unpoliticized.

 

[JBeukema]

Demonstrate a need and also stop evading the matter and prove how Allie denies women their right to decide to decide whether they want to have children. Also demonstrate how bneing pro-life equals supporting eugenics, when the major eugenics movement in America was predominantly negative eugenics, which supports abortion and keeping women from reproducing.

No birth control method is 100% effective, not even abstinence because even nuns get raped, therefore despite the best of intentions, an increasingly smaller number of women will suffer an unwanted pregnancy.

Did I really have to spell it out for you, dimwit?

So persona A raping person B justifies person B killing person c? She';s too stupid to take progestrin (the same drug in standard BC pills) within 72 hours? Wait, that's right, abortions are never done for rape- you people just had Norma McCorvey lie about that to SCOTUS...

 

[Anguille]

For example, I'm a capitalist and a Christian but I am also pro choice. Whenever I express an opinion one way or another I am automatically assumed to have other 'baggage' as well..

Yeah, because the fundamentalists are such loudmouths, people have come to assume being Christian equals anti choice. When, in fact, many Christians find abortion to be entirely compatible with Christ's message. And then even many of those who are doubtful about that or who would not chose abortion for themselves, are adamantly opposed to forcing their own or anyone else's religious restrictions on others.

 

[JBeukema]

many Christians find abortion to be entirely compatible with Christ's message.

No, it's compatible with their custom religion they've built by excluding anything from the bible they dislike.

 

[Anguille]

Demonstrate a need and also stop evading the matter and prove how Allie denies women their right to decide to decide whether they want to have children. Also demonstrate how bneing pro-life equals supporting eugenics, when the major eugenics movement in America was predominantly negative eugenics, which supports abortion and keeping women from reproducing.

No birth control method is 100% effective, not even abstinence because even nuns get raped, therefore despite the best of intentions, an increasingly smaller number of women will suffer an unwanted pregnancy.

Did I really have to spell it out for you, dimwit?

So persona A raping person B justifies person B killing person c? She';s too stupid to take progestrin (the same drug in standard BC pills) within 72 hours? Wait, that's right, abortions are never done for rape- you people just had Norma McCorvey lie about that to SCOTUS...

If she's "too stupid", not able to obtain the morning after pill (some Walmarts out west have refused to stock it and when they are the only pharmacy for miles around that means the morning after pill is unavailable to anyone not having the means to travel) or even if she is confused and undecided how she feels and needs more that 72 hours to decide how she feels about this unwanted prenancy and what is the right thing for her to do about it, then regardless, abortion should be still available to her.

You also neglect to understand that sometimes children and women are raped who are so traumatised afterwards they block it out and tell no one it happened.
There are also rape victims who decide to go ahead and carry the fetus should it turn out they were impregnated, only to encounter further complications down the road that make it necessary for them to change thier plans and abort.

It doesn't really matter what events lead up to a woman being pregnant and past the stage when the morning after pill can be used. It's nobody's business but her own if she wants to abort and making that option available only to women with the monetary means to do it and denying it to women who don't have those means is hypocritical and cruel.

 

[Anguille]

many Christians find abortion to be entirely compatible with Christ's message.

No, it's compatible with their custom religion they've built by excluding anything from the bible they dislike.

BeukemaFAIL!!

 

[JBeukema]

or even if she is confused and undecided how she feels and needs more that 72 hours to decide

so what? Her convenience does not override the right to life.

For you to seem to hate eugenicists so much, you adopt the very founding principle of negative eugenics- that you can decide who is worthy of being alive and that your convenience and opinion outweighs the right to live and continue to be alive.

You also neglect to understand that sometimes children and women are raped who are so traumatised afterwards they block it out and tell no one it happened.

Then it's time to live with the consequences. Ever heard of adoption?

There are also rape victims who decide to go ahead and carry the fetus should it turn out they were impregnated, only to encounter further complications down the road that make it necessary for them to change thier plans and abort.

Like wanting to go to prom? Too bad.

It doesn't really matter what events lead up to a woman being pregnant and past the stage when the morning after pill can be used.

Then why do you keep trying to grasp for reasons to make it matter?

Abortionists and the abortion industry don't give a shit about rape victims; you just use them to make money and achieve your own goals of eliminating the Lower Tenth. This has been shown time and again, by myself and others.

 

[Anguille]

or even if she is confused and undecided how she feels and needs more that 72 hours to decide

so what? Her convenience does not override the right to life.

For you to seem to hate eugenicists so much, you adopt the very founding principle of negative eugenics- that you can decide who is worthy of being alive and that your convenience and opinion outweighs the right to live and continue to be alive.

You also neglect to understand that sometimes children and women are raped who are so traumatised afterwards they block it out and tell no one it happened.

Then it's time to live with the consequences. Ever heard of adoption?

There are also rape victims who decide to go ahead and carry the fetus should it turn out they were impregnated, only to encounter further complications down the road that make it necessary for them to change thier plans and abort.

Like wanting to go to prom? Too bad.

It doesn't really matter what events lead up to a woman being pregnant and past the stage when the morning after pill can be used.

Then why do you keep trying to grasp for reasons to make it matter?

Abortionists and the abortion industry don't give a shit about rape victims; you just use them to make money and achieve your own goals of eliminating the Lower Tenth. This has been shown time and again, by myself and others.

No time left to address all the silly remarks and false statements you continue to make.
I gotta run out now and mail that check to Planned Parenthood I made out last night.

 

[Anguille]

J Beukema would rather see a rape victim die from complications due to pregnancy than let her have an abortion.