Abortion, expanded

[JBeukema]

Be honest...

 

[BrokenAngel]

As a mother it is impossible for me to ever think of a situation in which I would personally choose abortion. Honestly I thought of having an abortion with my son. I was in the clinic, waiting for my turn, I got as far as the ultrasound and I lost it. I ran to the phone and called my boyfriend in tears, I just couldn't do it no matter how unready I felt I was to take care of a child I couldn't do it.

That aside I would never rally against the ability of another woman to make that choice for herself. It is not my place to really say whether abortion should or should not be allowed, but I can't fathom anything more self serving than aborting a child based on sex, then choosing the hair color or eye color of your child. It is one thing if you are a certain race and want a child that is of the same race, but if you want to choose to have a boy or a girl then adopt. If you want a child that has blue eyes and blonde hair or brown eyes and dark hair go to an orphanage or to your local child welfare services and pick your child that way. Don't create a life then refuse it because its not quite what you want. It would be like trying to snuff out a kid because he didn't learn to speak quickly or she didn't score as high on her SATs as you might like.

 

[Angel Heart]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

They didn't show me the ultrasound. It is just standard for them to do it. For some reason it just became very VERY real to me in that moment. I thought of all the other options I had if I really couldn't handle raising a child. I could put it up for adoption, my boyfriend said he was perfectly willing to take on the child himself if I didn't feel I could be part of the equation, I could even leave the child at a local firestation or hospital and just walk away if I really wanted to.

It was something about sitting there and realizing I was about to deny my child the ability to laugh, smile, grow... In light of other options I couldn't bring myself to do it. If I had I think I would have regretted it the rest of my life. Again though, that is just me, everyone has to make that choice for themselves in my opinion.

 

[Immanuel]

Pro-choice until conception, however, I am willing to make exception for the extreme emergency type case. I am even willing to consider that the rape of a young girl might fit into the extreme cases.

That being said, I realize I have little to no say in the matter except for in promoting right over wrong.

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

Actually when you go to Planned Parenthood they are required to give you an ultrasound before the abortion. They keep the screen turned and keep ear pieces in to hear heart beats. They need to know if they are going in for one or multipul babies. They are NOT required to show you and don't even ask if you would like to see. Angel Heart is dead on with the current practice in abortion clinics. If they forced the mother to see the fetus I'd bet dollar to cents you would have less abortions. Since abortion clinics make money off of the abortions though they keep it as impersonal as possible and as in and out as possible. I don't think they should force someone to see the ultrasound though, because if they really don't want the baby and only get guilted into keeping it, don't make that choice themselves, what kind of mother would they be? Don't just think about getting that life into existence but think about what kind of family you would be forcing that child to have.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

Actually when you go to Planned Parenthood they are required to give you an ultrasound before the abortion. They keep the screen turned and keep ear pieces in to hear heart beats. They need to know if they are going in for one or multipul babies. They are NOT required to show you and don't even ask if you would like to see. Angel Heart is dead on with the current practice in abortion clinics. If they forced the mother to see the fetus I'd bet dollar to cents you would have less abortions. Since abortion clinics make money off of the abortions though they keep it as impersonal as possible and as in and out as possible. I don't think they should force someone to see the ultrasound though, because if they really don't want the baby and only get guilted into keeping it, don't make that choice themselves, what kind of mother would they be? Don't just think about getting that life into existence but think about what kind of family you would be forcing that child to have.

While Planned Parenthood is probably not required to place the ultrasound so that you can see it or to ask you if you wish to see it (because Planned Parenthood gets away with a lot of things regular outpatient medical clinics cannot), I'd say you could probably make a good legal case under HIPAA law for demanding that they share the ultrasound information with you. I don't think they can legally refuse to give you information if you request it, since no other medical practitioner can, and if they can, I'll bet it would make an interesting legal case.

I don't see any particular reason why women going to Planned Parenthood should necessarily be exempted from the overload of information everyone else is subjected to when they go to the doctor, although I've always believed that every patient should be given the option of stipulating in writing that they waive it. I would certainly have preferred to do so when my doctors felt compelled to share with me in excruciating detail all of the possible genetic defects my son, Quinn, might have . . . right before telling me that it would take two weeks for the genetic test results to come back. I could have done without the two weeks of nailbiting brought on by TMI.

But if every other patient is forced to hear more info than they want because they're legally entitled to a fully informed medical decision, then women getting abortions ought to get the exact same treatment.

 

[alan1]

I believe in retro-active abortion. People like Charles Manson are perfect candidates.

 

[DV8]

I believe in retro-active abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I believe in retro-active abortion.

Dunno what you're shocked about. This concept also goes under the name of "capital punishment", and is both legal and widely supported by many people. Insofar as abortion has often been touted as desirable because of its alleged ability to lower crime rates, I would think "retroactive abortion" would be at least as desirable for its much more obvious ability to do the same thing.

 

[alan1]

I believe in retro-active abortion.

Avoiding half what I said when you quote me is quite the misrepresentation of my original statement.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Pro-choice. That means that while I would not have an abortion, and would advise a dear one against having one, ultimately it's not my choice to legislate another's ethical decision. If abortions are going to happen anyway, I'd like to see them stay a legal choice, for the health and well being of at least one life instead of seeing them both lost to a back alley or coat hanger abortion. I do not favor the reversal of roe vs wade.

I do remember those days, and I remember when being an unmarried mother was a totally alienating experience in our society.

Taking life is taking life and it is against Buddhist principles. We are not a theocracy and we are not run solely on one ethical system. There are karmic consequences to abortion.

This is one of those ethical issues that I feel conflicted about. I don't judge women who have abortions, I feel a sadness and compassion for the difficult choice that was made--which is ultimately up to the prospective parents to make, not me.

I am against capital punishmen, so their are some contradictions obviously.

 

[Angel Heart]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

Several of my friends have had abortions and many of them have said that even when they wanted to see the ultrasound they where not allowed to. Maybe that's just Planned Parenthood.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Broken, What would you of done had they not shown you the ultrasound? They are not required to show you it. I feel they should be. The woman should make the choice with all of the info in front of her.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

Several of my friends have had abortions and many of them have said that even when they wanted to see the ultrasound they where not allowed to. Maybe that's just Planned Parenthood.

Really? Someone refuses to give me medical information pertaining to me, I'd have 'em in court before their heads stopped spinning. On the other hand, I wouldn't do business with Planned Parenthood if THEY paid ME. If I need medical treatment, I go to a REAL clinic with real doctors, and I don't consider PP to qualify.

All I can tell you is that HIPAA specifies that the patient has the right to immediate access to any and all of their medical information upon request. Perhaps your friends got their abortions before HIPAA was passed.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I believe in retro-active abortion. People like Charles Manson are perfect candidates.

That's a serious considerationi when we look at psychopaths, who some posit as possibly brain impaired. Manson was obviously a psychopath. Glib, cunning, manipulative and without remorse or feeling--an example of evil existing in a human being.

If you knew your child was going to be born lacking empathy would you want to abort that child?

 

[Angel Heart]

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that doctors have the legal right to hide medical information about you from you? HIPAA law gives the patient the legal right to demand instant access to any and all medical information pertaining to him/her, and a failure to provide information and instruction pertinent to making medical decisions constitutes medical malpractice.

Several of my friends have had abortions and many of them have said that even when they wanted to see the ultrasound they where not allowed to. Maybe that's just Planned Parenthood.

Really? Someone refuses to give me medical information pertaining to me, I'd have 'em in court before their heads stopped spinning. On the other hand, I wouldn't do business with Planned Parenthood if THEY paid ME. If I need medical treatment, I go to a REAL clinic with real doctors, and I don't consider PP to qualify.

All I can tell you is that HIPAA specifies that the patient has the right to immediate access to any and all of their medical information upon request. Perhaps your friends got their abortions before HIPAA was passed.

ITA with your views on PP. They don't follow the laws in more than one area.

I figure my friends didn't get up and walk out due to their being young and not knowing their rights.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Several of my friends have had abortions and many of them have said that even when they wanted to see the ultrasound they where not allowed to. Maybe that's just Planned Parenthood.

Really? Someone refuses to give me medical information pertaining to me, I'd have 'em in court before their heads stopped spinning. On the other hand, I wouldn't do business with Planned Parenthood if THEY paid ME. If I need medical treatment, I go to a REAL clinic with real doctors, and I don't consider PP to qualify.

All I can tell you is that HIPAA specifies that the patient has the right to immediate access to any and all of their medical information upon request. Perhaps your friends got their abortions before HIPAA was passed.

ITA with your views on PP. They don't follow the laws in more than one area.

I figure my friends didn't get up and walk out due to their being young and not knowing their rights.

It is a flat shame how many people and institutions depend on the ignorance and passivity of others to get away with bad behavior. One of the reasons HIPAA was passed was to empower patients to take control of their own health decisions and become informed and independent, rather than simply depending on doctors to tell them what was best.

 

[Ravi]

Be honest...

My honest opinion is that you don't get to decide for someone else.

 

[Schnizel]

Be honest...

My honest opinion is that you don't get to decide for someone else.

How liberally are you willing to apply that argument?