Abbas: Peace Agreement Will End Conflict

[Lipush]

There may be some hope. Abbas says peace agreement will end conflict with Israel. Israel says they are willing to make concessions.

Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian President, Says Signing Peace Agreement Will End The Conflict With Israel

I don't believe a word he says.

 

[Lipush]

Originally posted by Lipush
Troll alert.

And to the point.

The point I'm making is exactly you same point YOU DID yesterday when you posted this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jQvUZDiYSzc#t=1140

Dozens of palestinian children saying the exactly same thing I did here:

The core of the palestinian struggle is not Green Lines, 48 borders, 67 borders, few inches here and there. It is THEIR right to live in the western half of their homeland.

American Jihad and RoccoR thanked you for your thread so they also agree with everything I said here.

I have no problem with the Idea of Palestinians living in freedom. I believe all people deserve that.

I object their idea that their freedom cannot be accomploshed unless I, as an Israeli Jew, is out of the way (and dead).

If that's the idea they have of freedom, then I will fight them, and will protect myself in any way possible.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a great slogan; but not for the Arab Palestinian. The Arab Palestinian is not the master of peace. It does not have any divine right or legal standing to decide and set the conditions for peace.

The follow-on question to the demand in this statement is what? Or else --- War! That is coercion and blackmail. If there was ever a reason to ignore such a demand, is because it is framed in the context of a "demand, or else."

Peace will only come when the world decides to seek justice and enforce international law.

(OBSERVATION)

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

They are the fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail, homelands be retrieved and from its mosques would the voice of the mu'azen emerge declaring the establishment of the state of Islam, so that people and things would return each to their right places and Allah is our helper.

Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem.
​

SPECIAL NOTE: I know that Izz ad-Din al-Qassam was killed by British Police in the village of Sheikh Zeid, in 1935. I don't exactly know why HAMAS uses the date of 1939. Many people I've talked to think it is sort of a transcription error - and - should be 1929, the year al-Qassam started the Black Hand (al kaff al-aswad). Some hypothesize that HAMAS wanted to use a date that was after the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. (I have no true explanation to offer.)​

(COMMENT)

In the evolution of humanity and society, we have discovered that there is something greater than "majority rule;" although that is an important concept. While we generally value human reason, ethics, social justice we attempt to remain neutral in matters of religion; supporting neither religion or it absence. And while I say this, I am reminded that there are cultures that have not adopted the concept of freedom of religion.

• This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

• The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.

• It is characterized by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgement, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.

Sharia is the moral code and religious law of Islam. Violations of Islamic law (Sharia) are offenses against Supreme Being and nature itself. The Arab Palestinian is not the least bit interested in the enforcement of international law, except to the extent that it can further Islamic goals.

SPECIAL NOTE:

• In Israel, Sharia law is officially recognized by the court system in matters relative to Muslims (if the so choose) in regards to marriage, divorce, and guardianship issues.

• In most of the Arab world, the renunciation of Islam is a criminal offense. Islam is a capture religion. Once in, you cannot be released (Apostasy).

​

The Arab Palestinian is not interested in anything even remotely familiar to "justice" or "international law." They use this claim in order to secure that which they were denied as an outcome of combat.

Most Respectfully,
R

And of course Tinnie will respond to this post with his usual "You're blowing smoke Rocco" or my personal favorite "You post is based on false premise "

 

[Lipush]

After asking me "what the hell I was babling about" just a few posts ago Bloodrock does a 180 degree turn and finally (implicitly) admits that the right to live in western Palestine is the core of the palestinian struggle, a right they will never renounce so "the talks will fail and Israel will win".



Not bad for a "troll", huh, Lipush?

What exactly is Western Palestine ?

The territorial landmass currently comprised by the state of Israel.

You invented a new term.

LoL

 

[José]

Originally posted by Lipush
You invented a new term.

LoL

OK... I'm a creative type.

But it does refer to something real... it is indeed the western half of their historical homeland.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Lipush
I have no problem with the Idea of Palestinians living in freedom. I believe all people deserve that.

I object their idea that their freedom cannot be accomploshed unless I, as an Israeli Jew, is out of the way (and dead).

If that's the idea they have of freedom, then I will fight them, and will protect myself in any way possible.

Lipush,

You believe that Israel has the right to shoot, arrest or "deport" a palestinian when he tries to move about his homeland, when he tries to "immigrate illegaly to his own homeland" to visit family in Ashkelon, to meet a online girlfriend in Acre, to look for a job in Jerusalem, because on a somewhat unconscious level you dehumanize the palestinian people.

You do not perceive them as a group of human beings entitled to the same set of rights as israelis and Jews in particular.

I don't know if someday before your time on Earth is through, you'll be able to get rid of this dehumanizing paradigm through which you perceive the arab people of Palestine, but if somehow you manage to perceive palestinians as individuals with the same human value as Jews, I'm sure the state of Israel will provoke in you the same moral revulsion it does in Tinmore and myself.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by Lipush
I have no problem with the Idea of Palestinians living in freedom. I believe all people deserve that.

I object their idea that their freedom cannot be accomploshed unless I, as an Israeli Jew, is out of the way (and dead).

If that's the idea they have of freedom, then I will fight them, and will protect myself in any way possible.

Lipush,

You believe that Israel has the right to shoot, arrest or "deport" a palestinian when he tries to move about his homeland, when he tries to "immigrate illegaly to his own homeland" to visit family in Ashkelon, to meet a online girlfriend in Acre, to look for a job in Jerusalem, because on a somewhat unconscious level you dehumanize the palestinian people.

You do not perceive them as a group of human beings entitled to the same set of rights as israelis and Jews in particular.

I don't know if someday before your time on Earth is through, you'll be able to get rid of this dehumanizing paradigm through which you perceive the arab people of Palestine, but if somehow you manage to perceive palestinians as individuals with the same human value as Jews, I'm sure the state of Israel will provoke in you the same moral revulsion it does in Tinmore and myself.

Right now there is a State of Israel in place. The final status of the West Bank will be worked out in negotiations. Palestinians can't just travel from Ramallah to Ashkelon until that happens. Did the Palestinians who blew themselves up in cafes view their victims, or even themselves, as human? The situation is more complicated than just viewing them as human. Security must always be paramount.

 

[toastman]

Originally posted by Lipush
I have no problem with the Idea of Palestinians living in freedom. I believe all people deserve that.

I object their idea that their freedom cannot be accomploshed unless I, as an Israeli Jew, is out of the way (and dead).

If that's the idea they have of freedom, then I will fight them, and will protect myself in any way possible.

Lipush,

You believe that Israel has the right to shoot, arrest or "deport" a palestinian when he tries to move about his homeland, when he tries to "immigrate illegaly to his own homeland" to visit family in Ashkelon, to meet a online girlfriend in Acre, to look for a job in Jerusalem, because on a somewhat unconscious level you dehumanize the palestinian people.

You do not perceive them as a group of human beings entitled to the same set of rights as israelis and Jews in particular.

I don't know if someday before your time on Earth is through, you'll be able to get rid of this dehumanizing paradigm through which you perceive the arab people of Palestine, but if somehow you manage to perceive palestinians as individuals with the same human value as Jews, I'm sure the state of Israel will provoke in you the same moral revulsion it does in Tinmore and myself.

And why is it that Palestinians can't travel freely through Israel from the West Bank?

 

[Hoffstra]

I hope and pray that Israel will be willing to make the hard choices for peace.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How can Israel trust a 'peace partner' who says one thing in English and the opposite in Arabic?


Fatah Stresses: We're Not Giving Up 'Right of Return'
Abbas's faction stresses that it is not giving up on the demand to flood Israel with millions of PA Arabs.

By Dalit Halevi & Elad Benari
First Publish: 8/26/2013, 12:13 AM


If anyone had any doubts about what Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas meant when he met last week with members of the Israeli leftist party Meretz, an official statement from his Fatah party on Sunday made things clear.

After Thursday’s meeting, members of Meretz said that Abbas had reassured them that if a peace agreement is reached with Israel, it would bring an end to his people’s demands of the Jewish state.

"I know your concerns, but guarantee that at the conclusion of successful negotiations, we undertake to end all the demands. We will not ask to return to Yafo, Akko and Tzfat,” he reportedly said.

Members of Meretz said that Abbas told them a “fair agreement” will end the conflict with Israel and that a “peace agreement with Israel will be final and binding." He did not, however, specify what is meant by a fair peace agreement and did not commit to the fact that the PA would give up its demand for the “right of return”, which would see millions of Arabs who fled Israel in 1948 and their descendants flood Israel.

On Sunday, Abbas chaired a meeting of the Central Committee of the Fatah movement, at the conclusion of which Fatah spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeineh said in a statement that "the main goal of the negotiations with Israel is to establish an independent Palestinian state within the [pre-]1967 borders with its capital Al-Quds (Jerusalem -ed.), and the return of refugees in accordance with resolutions by international legitimate institutions and the Arab Peace Initiative.”

Abu Rudeineh stressed that "all issues related to the permanent status agreement are on the negotiating table, within the time frame of the nine months that was agreed upon with the U.S. government."

Read the full article here
Fatah: We're Not Giving Up 'Right of Return' - Middle East - News - Israel National News

 

[Hoffstra]

Hopefully the Israelis and Palestinians will make the hard choices for peace.

So far Israel seems more interested in placating and appeasing its radical Right, rather than goodwill gestures for peace.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Hopefully the Israelis and Palestinians will make the hard choices for peace.

So far Israel seems more interested in placating and appeasing its radical Right, rather than goodwill gestures for peace.

Unfortunately it is clear to all but the most blinkered that appeasing the left would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State. The first steps would be for the Palestinian Authority to genuinely mean what they say in English, because it is a good thing that we know their true intentions when they say them in Arabic.

 

[Hoffstra]

Hopefully the Israelis and Palestinians will make the hard choices for peace.

So far Israel seems more interested in placating and appeasing its radical Right, rather than goodwill gestures for peace.

Unfortunately it is clear to all but the most blinkered that appeasing the left would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State. The first steps would be for the Palestinian Authority to genuinely mean what they say in English, because it is a good thing that we know their true intentions when they say them in Arabic.

Giving the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank with 5% land swaps, with a chunk of East Jerusalem, and shared control of the Old City, would not mean the end of Israel.

This is just baseless hyperbole used as propaganda by Israeli extremists. Its like Hitler saying The Sudetenland must be liberated from evil Czech rule.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Hopefully the Israelis and Palestinians will make the hard choices for peace.

So far Israel seems more interested in placating and appeasing its radical Right, rather than goodwill gestures for peace.

Unfortunately it is clear to all but the most blinkered that appeasing the left would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State. The first steps would be for the Palestinian Authority to genuinely mean what they say in English, because it is a good thing that we know their true intentions when they say them in Arabic.

Giving the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank with 5% land swaps, with a chunk of East Jerusalem, and shared control of the Old City, would not mean the end of Israel.

This is just baseless hyperbole used as propaganda by Israeli extremists. Its like Hitler saying The Sudetenland must be liberated from evil Czech rule.

I know you are very keen on sharing the Old City, Hyrcanus. It seems likely that the Israelis will probably agree to this, though it would make the miraculous Six-Day War a hollow victory, and practically do away with our 2,000-year-old dream.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Unfortunately it is clear to all but the most blinkered that appeasing the left would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State. The first steps would be for the Palestinian Authority to genuinely mean what they say in English, because it is a good thing that we know their true intentions when they say them in Arabic.

Giving the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank with 5% land swaps, with a chunk of East Jerusalem, and shared control of the Old City, would not mean the end of Israel.

This is just baseless hyperbole used as propaganda by Israeli extremists. Its like Hitler saying The Sudetenland must be liberated from evil Czech rule.

I know you are very keen on sharing the Old City, Hyrcanus. It seems likely that the Israelis will probably agree to this, though it would make the miraculous Six-Day War a hollow victory, and practically do away with our 2,000-year-old dream.

It must not have been much of a dream. For 2000 years they didn't do jack.

 

[RoccoR]

ForeverYoung436, P F Tinmore, et al,

To some degree, you have to agree that P F Tinmore is correct.

Giving the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank with 5% land swaps, with a chunk of East Jerusalem, and shared control of the Old City, would not mean the end of Israel.

This is just baseless hyperbole used as propaganda by Israeli extremists. Its like Hitler saying The Sudetenland must be liberated from evil Czech rule.

I know you are very keen on sharing the Old City, Hyrcanus. It seems likely that the Israelis will probably agree to this, though it would make the miraculous Six-Day War a hollow victory, and practically do away with our 2,000-year-old dream.

It must not have been much of a dream. For 2000 years they didn't do jack.

(COMMENT)

While there may be a legitimate argument to be made for some of the territory that the Arab-Palestinian either abandon or lost in combat as a result of the aggression, Israel is not really entitled to Jerusalem any more than the Arab Palestinian. Neither has a legitimate right to sovereignty over the city.

They are both equally wrong on that issue. Jerusalem is a special case; a Holy Site to three major religions. And while none of them actually show even the slightest regard for the principles behind the Deity they all believe is the Supreme Being, or the sanctity of the land itself, they all think they have some special claim; to the death and destruction of the other.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

How many "special" cities does a faith get? One? Two? Five? Muslims have Mecca and Medina and a whole host of other "holy" cities such as Karbala scattered throughout the Middle East . They can take a backseat in Jerusalem especially when it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How many "special" cities does a faith get? One? Two? Five? Muslims have Mecca and Medina and a whole host of other "holy" cities such as Karbala scattered throughout the Middle East . They can take a backseat in Jerusalem especially when it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once.

Exactly. And one of my heroes, Mordechai Kedar gave Al-Jazeera the low-down on what's what.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpMhAzj-Tk]Mordechai Kedar in al-Jazeera about Jerusalem & Islam - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgGYQ_PEcZs]How to Speak to the Muslims: Mordechai Kedar - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Roudy]

How many "special" cities does a faith get? One? Two? Five? Muslims have Mecca and Medina and a whole host of other "holy" cities such as Karbala scattered throughout the Middle East . They can take a backseat in Jerusalem especially when it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once.

Exactly. And one of my heroes, Mordechai Kedar gave Al-Jazeera the low-down on what's what.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpMhAzj-Tk]Mordechai Kedar in al-Jazeera about Jerusalem & Islam - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgGYQ_PEcZs]How to Speak to the Muslims: Mordechai Kedar - YouTube[/ame]

He is good because he is a Jew who has lived among Arabs.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How many "special" cities does a faith get? One? Two? Five? Muslims have Mecca and Medina and a whole host of other "holy" cities such as Karbala scattered throughout the Middle East . They can take a backseat in Jerusalem especially when it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once.

Exactly. And one of my heroes, Mordechai Kedar gave Al-Jazeera the low-down on what's what.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpMhAzj-Tk]Mordechai Kedar in al-Jazeera about Jerusalem & Islam - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgGYQ_PEcZs]How to Speak to the Muslims: Mordechai Kedar - YouTube[/ame]

He is good because he is a Jew who has lived among Arabs.

Yes, a very learned man with some good lectures online to listen to.