A Tea Party Wants Mandatory Christmas Carols In Public Schools

[Yurt]

not true....it is counted as a work/holiday....you are obviously clueless as to teacher salaries...they're salaries are based on number of work days and holidays are included....but laugh away, obviously ignorance is bliss

further, state employees and federal employees get that day off, paid....

Yes, but the days that they don't work at the winter break would have been simply taken at another time if not then, like at spring break, or summer break.

Teacher's contracts denote a specific amount of time worked in a year. That works both ways.

it doesn't take away from the fact that teachers and other government employees are paid with public funds to observe a religious holiday, you claimed they weren't....they are

do you now continue your support for christmas paid holiday at the federal and state level?

 

[Ravi]

i never said the federal government, and never mentioned the general public being forced to celebrate a holiday....go back and read what i said....you should be embarrassed instead of laughing

you have yet to provide me anything that shows schools can force students to attend school on christmas....

Kids go to school roughly 180 days a year. They don't really have any say in the school calendar...the school board does. It wouldn't make sense for the school board to force its teachers and administrative staff to work on Christmas since every state recognizes Christmas as a holiday.

lmao....first you claim to have a statute that backs you, but instead you actually didn't have the reading comprehension to understand what it was i asked....now you admit i'm right....

thanks ravi....you're finally getting it....my entire point is, the schools cannot force the kids to school on christmas, and now you're saying i'm weird....

thank you for admitting i'm right though

Sure they could...if the teachers wanted it and the parents wanted it. I don't know if you are weird or not, but I'm pretty sure you're retarded.

 

[Yurt]

Kids go to school roughly 180 days a year. They don't really have any say in the school calendar...the school board does. It wouldn't make sense for the school board to force its teachers and administrative staff to work on Christmas since every state recognizes Christmas as a holiday.

lmao....first you claim to have a statute that backs you, but instead you actually didn't have the reading comprehension to understand what it was i asked....now you admit i'm right....

thanks ravi....you're finally getting it....my entire point is, the schools cannot force the kids to school on christmas, and now you're saying i'm weird....

thank you for admitting i'm right though

Sure they could...if the teachers wanted it and the parents wanted it. I don't know if you are weird or not, but I'm pretty sure you're retarded.

so you support the teachers and the parents forcing their kids to go to school on a state recognized holiday, but it is somehow unconstitutional to allow the parents and/or teachers to give students the opportunity to sing christmas carols....

all you do is harp....you're retarded, you're stupid....blah, blah...you never debate....and when you make a claim and are called on it....this is your typical response....

face it ravi, despite your claims otherwise, you can't show me anywhere where teachers can force students to school....you lost this one, get over it....but i'm sure we will all be treated to "you're a retard" "you're stupid".....with no debate from you....

(yawn)

 

[Vast LWC]

Careful what you wish for....most of the good students have already been taken out of the public schools system. The wealthy send theirs to private schools, the rest homeschool theirs.. This leaves the poor with uneducated parents in the public schools and you wonder why our schools are doing so badly?

LOL, right-wing christian children, whose parents want to pull them out of public schools because they don't have mandated Christmas Carols, will certainly not be a loss for the public school program.

In fact, the loss will probably cause a marked improvement in the average GPA.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If you get christmas carols in schools, you have to figure that Ramaden songs, and Yom Kippur songs won't be too far behind.

The school celebrats Muslim and Jewish culture as part of the diversity program, along with Christian events. It's kind of fun.

 

[Vast LWC]

it doesn't take away from the fact that teachers and other government employees are paid with public funds to observe a religious holiday, you claimed they weren't....they are

do you now continue your support for christmas paid holiday at the federal and state level?

That is incorrect, they are paid for the full year. Whether they take days off in December or April has no effect on their pay.

Now, devoting teachers to supervise children for extra-cirricular activites, such as singing Christmas carols would require either

1. overtime pay,
2. hiring more personnel, or
3. taking time away from normal classes.

All of which means that taxpayers are paying for religious ceremonies.

Even if one were to assume your point about holidays to have any validity whatsoever, said holidays are not costing the taxpayers extra money, but simply using already allotted vacation time.

 

[Yurt]

it doesn't take away from the fact that teachers and other government employees are paid with public funds to observe a religious holiday, you claimed they weren't....they are

do you now continue your support for christmas paid holiday at the federal and state level?

That is incorrect, they are paid for the full year. Whether they take days off in December or April has no effect on their pay.

Now, devoting teachers to supervise children for extra-cirricular activites, such as singing Christmas carols would require either

1. overtime pay,
2. hiring more personnel, or
3. taking time away from normal classes.

All of which means that taxpayers are paying for religious ceremonies.

Even if one were to assume your point about holidays to have any validity whatsoever, said holidays are not costing the taxpayers extra money, but simply using already allotted vacation time.

no, teachers are paid on a contract for days worked....look into it, that is how they negotiate contracts....say a 190 day work year....including holidays...which christmas is....

no one is suggesting overtime, no one is suggesting more personel or taking time away....schools have special events all the time, this would be no different, so your argument falls flat

and you know i am right that federal employees and state employees do get paid holidays, christmas is one of them....so it is factual that your dollars pay for a religious holiday....

 

[Foxfyre]

and you know i am right that federal employees and state employees do get paid holidays, christmas is one of them....so it is factual that your dollars pay for a religious holiday....

I see your line of reasoning here, but I don't think it would hold up in like court (or whatever). That Christmas is designated one of several federal holidays is easily due to expediency, personnel morale, or just plain custom more than out of any deference for the religion that it was once part of. Christmas has become so universal and secularized, and the fact that all federal employees--Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist or whatever--are given the same day off, I don't see how any case can be made for it being recognized as a 'religious' holiday.

 

[Yurt]

and you know i am right that federal employees and state employees do get paid holidays, christmas is one of them....so it is factual that your dollars pay for a religious holiday....

I see your line of reasoning here, but I don't think it would hold up in like court (or whatever). That Christmas is designated one of several federal holidays is easily due to expediency, personnel morale, or just plain custom more than out of any deference for the religion that it was once part of. Christmas has become so universal and secularized, and the fact that all federal employees--Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist or whatever--are given the same day off, I don't see how any case can be made for it being recognized as a 'religious' holiday.

i don't know what you're talking about "hold up in like court"...i'm just discussing, not making any legal arguments...

and btw....it is in fact a religious holiday....CHRISTmas....when our government made it a holiday over a hundred years ago, they knew very well it was a religious holiday....in fact they knew very well it was to remember the birth of jesus christ

 

[naomibee]

big gov. wants you!!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

because people keep mentioning the federal constitution, you know, the supreme law of the land

I asked you where has the Supreme Court ever given Christmas preferential treatment over other religions, in a ruling, on the grounds that since Christmas is a federal holiday it deserves preferential treatment?

Answer please.

asked and answered over half a dozen times....your idiocy is knows no bounds

You have not cited a single case.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Careful what you wish for....most of the good students have already been taken out of the public schools system. The wealthy send theirs to private schools, the rest homeschool theirs.. This leaves the poor with uneducated parents in the public schools and you wonder why our schools are doing so badly?

LOL, right-wing christian children, whose parents want to pull them out of public schools because they don't have mandated Christmas Carols, will certainly not be a loss for the public school program.

In fact, the loss will probably cause a marked improvement in the average GPA.

It will be a gain for Future Sociopaths of America.

 

[NYcarbineer]

On December 6, 1999, Federal District Judge Susan J. Dlott granted our motion to dismiss the case [challenging the constitutionality of Christmas being recognized as a federal holiday].. In her decision, she wrote, "The Court holds that under Sixth Circuit and Supreme Court precedent the establishment of Christmas Day as a legal public holiday does not violate the Establishment Clause because it has a valid secular purpose, it does not have the effect of endorsing religion in general or Christianity in particular, and it does not impermissibly cause excessive entanglement between church and state."

 

[Harry Dresden]

Who is stopping the kids from singing carols now? Looks like the crazy cons want to take time out of the school day for the kids to sing these fairy tale songs, school is for reading and writing, kids can sing on their own time.

you must of had a shitty time in school at Christmas time Noose.....for christ sakes they only sing this stuff around Christmas week....it isnt interfering with anyones education....its called having a little fun singing songs about Santa,which im sure 95 % of the kids enjoy...take the stick out of your ass dude...liten up...

 

[Emma]

You people refuse to accept fact. Church and State are separate, a scholl board cannot promote Christian values. Your crazy Constipation says so aka the 2nd.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Heres the rules people..

The right wing says we are required to sing about Christ in schools but are not allowed to sing about the President

Easy isn't it?

so sing about Santa then.....thats who most of those kids are thinking about anyway....not the President or Jesus as far as that goes....and lets face it, to most people,especially little kids.....Santa and the things that revolve around his legend are what most kids are focused on....

 

[Yurt]

On December 6, 1999, Federal District Judge Susan J. Dlott granted our motion to dismiss the case [challenging the constitutionality of Christmas being recognized as a federal holiday].. In her decision, she wrote, "The Court holds that under Sixth Circuit and Supreme Court precedent the establishment of Christmas Day as a legal public holiday does not violate the Establishment Clause because it has a valid secular purpose, it does not have the effect of endorsing religion in general or Christianity in particular, and it does not impermissibly cause excessive entanglement between church and state."

the case you're talking about, which you failed to cite is....Ganulin v. United States, 71 F. Supp. 2d 824

you probably don't even realize that you've just helped my position by finally presenting this case, though i admit, i didn't expect it to come from you, i think its possible you don't actually realize what this case actually did....i've been waiting for someone to show me why the initiative as proposed is unconstitutional....yet not a single person has (and ravi's continually you're retarded doesn't count)....you've unwittingly shown that the initiative has a decent chance of passing the lemon test...

thank you

 

[Yurt]

I asked you where has the Supreme Court ever given Christmas preferential treatment over other religions, in a ruling, on the grounds that since Christmas is a federal holiday it deserves preferential treatment?

Answer please.

asked and answered over half a dozen times....your idiocy is knows no bounds

You have not cited a single case.

thats because your question is a fucking strawman...i've already answered your strawman to humor you, but you keep ignoring it....you keep asking it as if this proves you right....it doesn't...just because you don't like my previous answers doesn't mean you haven't been answer you dishonest hack

 

[Yurt]

since its clear no one can explain to me why the carols would be unconstitutional....its time to see what the court has said:

To forbid the use of this one passive symbol - the creche - at the very time people are taking note of the season with Christmas hymns and carols in public schools and other public places, and while the Congress and legislatures open sessions with prayers by paid chaplains, would be a stilted overreaction contrary to our history and to our holdings. If the presence of the creche in this display violates the Establishment Clause, a host of other forms of taking official note of Christmas, and of our religious heritage, are equally offensive to the Constitution.

LYNCH v. DONNELLY, 465 U.S. 668 (1984)

while not a direct holding on christmas carols...i dare say this dicta would weigh heavily in any court's decision re christmas carols....at the court clearly doesn't have a problem with christmas carols in public schools

 

[Gunny]

when you scratch the surface of most of these professed anti-government types, you find an anti-your government type underneath, who is more than happy to use government for his own purposes.

tell the government to keep their hands of my medicare.

stfu.