A Short Primer on the Citizenship Clause in the 14th Amendment

[rightwinger]

Born to American parents

Where does the 14th say that?

You are making shit up

 

[rightwinger]

My question is why are Democrats so hell bent on keeping the current interpretation?

Because we follow the Constitution

 

[SweetTea]

Because it in in the constitution in plain words, ALL PERSONS....because we have over 100 years of precedence court cases, because laymen or presidents can not simply change the constitution with opinion...

A constitutional amendment is needed to change the constitution, under the constitution's rules.


It is LAWLESS to do it via executive order, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Do it the legal way, through a Constitutional Amendment...

“Under the jurisdiction thereof”. Laws are meant to be interpreted, thus why we have the SC.

 

[SweetTea]

Because we follow the Constitution

Only when it is convenient to your political narrative. I assume you were in favor of Roe v Wade. That was unconstitutional, but the left was fine with that.

 

[rightwinger]

Only when it is convenient to your political narrative. I assume you were in favor of Roe v Wade. That was unconstitutional, but the left was fine with that.

By definition, an Amendment is Constitutional

 

[SweetTea]

By definition, an Amendment is Constitutional

Yes, but it still must be interpreted, particularly one that is 160+ years old.

 

[Care4all]

“Under the jurisdiction thereof”. Laws are meant to be interpreted, thus why we have the SC.

Yes! Words certainly have MEANING!

See post 120....subject to the jurisdiction there of, has very clear and concise meaning...

 

[SweetTea]

Yes! Words certainly have MEANING!

See post 120....subject to the jurisdiction there of, has very clear and concise meaning...

Again, it needs to be interpreted.

Why do you want people to be able to come here on vacation or illegally and have babies that are citizens? Just curious why you think that is a good idea.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, but it still must be interpreted, particularly one that is 160+ years old.

It has been interpreted that way for 160 years
Only Trump can’t read

 

[Care4all]

Again, it needs to be interpreted.

Why do you want people to be able to come here on vacation or illegally and have babies that are citizens? Just curious why you think that is a good idea.

The meaning of, subject to the jurisdiction there of, was interpreted, several times in many different court cases and by SC Justices...its meaning is very clear and concise....there is no wiggle room....160 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, now, and even 250 years ago before the 14th amendment, its meaning is the SAME, concise meaning then and now.

 

[SweetTea]

It has been interpreted that way for 160 years
Only Trump can’t read

Not only Trump, 70+ million of us and several on the SC.

 

[SweetTea]

The meaning of, subject to the jurisdiction there of, was interpreted, several times in many different court cases and by SC Justices...its meaning is very clear and concise....there is no wiggle room....160 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, now, and even 250 years ago before the 14th amendment, its meaning is the SAME, concise meaning then and now.

Again, why do you want this? Don’t say because it is in the law that is a load of crap and you know it. I am asking why you think it is a good idea to allow this phenomenon that our forefathers 160+ years ago couldn’t have possibly foreseen.

 

[Care4all]

From my same link above, here is what happened in the Senate when debating the clause. It was originally written as citizens and not persons, but they had to change it, so the 14th would reflect their true intentions....

-----------

The Senate debates, where the citizenship clause was developed, bear this out. Initially, the proposed Amendment guaranteed rights to citizens without defining citizens. Senator Wade pointed this out and suggested guaranteeing rights to all persons born in the United States. Senator Fessenden objected that some U.S.-born people were not citizens under existing law (which Wade acknowledged, mentioning ambassadors). Senator Howard then proposed the language that became the citizenship clause, describing the "subject to the jurisdiction" language as excluding children of ambassadors.

Senators next debated whether Howard's language continued the exclusion of tribal Native Americans from citizenship (which they favored). Howard said that it did, adopting the prior explanation that U.S. laws didn't extend to the tribes' internal affairs. A revision to expressly exclude tribal members was defeated as unnecessary.

Finally, the Senators considered the citizenship of U.S.-born children of aliens. Senator Cowan objected (in overtly racial terms) that the proposal would make citizens of U.S.-born children of Chinese immigrants on the West Coast. California Senator Conness (himself an Irish immigrant) agreed it would have this effect, but enthusiastically endorsed it. No Senator disagreed with the Cowan/Conness interpretation, including Howard (who wrote the clause) and Senator Trumbull (who originally introduced the proposed Amendment). Indeed, in an earlier exchange with Cowan, Trumbull said that U.S.-born children of Chinese immigrants (like all U.S.-born children of immigrants) should be considered citizens. And the Senate then adopted Howard's language without further revision.

 

[rightwinger]

Not only Trump, 70+ million of us and several on the SC.

Most Americans support Birthright Citizenship
No Justice opposed it yesterday

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Hey, everyone.

ALL PERSONS

 

[rightwinger]

MAGA argued that Obama was not a Citizen

Now, those Constitutional experts are trying to apply it to the rest of the country

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Those who wrote the 14th Amendment understood the English language.
If they meant former slaves, they could have said so.
But they used the term “all people ” which applies to everyone

They also said “land owners”’as far as voting.

Let me guess.. your literal demands suddenly change on a dime, right?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

MAGA argued that Obama was not a Citizen

Now, those Constitutional experts are trying to apply it to the rest of the country

Hillary Clinton did

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Most Americans support Birthright Citizenship
No Justice opposed it yesterday

Most Americans didn’t support Roe v Wade when it passed.

 

[rightwinger]

They also said “land owners”’as far as voting.

Let me guess.. your literal demands suddenly change on a dime, right?

Which was changed