A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[Gadawg73]

talk about piling the shit high and deep!
"THEY" said that when women got the right to vote and it was bullshit!
" THEY"said that during the civil right era and it was bullshit .
"THEY said that about rock &roll and that was bullshit!
etc...

Don't you think that American society is in decline?

what american society is that?

The folks I kick it with are not in decline. Quite the opposite.
I keep hearing this rank hearsay from the gossipers about how terrible, bad, "in decline" and awful those folk on the other side of the tracks are but I ignore them.
Mama taught us to mind our own business and if we were going to talk about "American society" then we best say something positive about our Christian neighbors and others also and if we did think of something negative to say about them it would be best to keep our pie holes shut.
Amazing how smart Mama was.
Even more amazing the folk here that claim they are religous yet know nothing about how one should act when practicing it.

 

[garyganu]

talk about piling the shit high and deep!
"THEY" said that when women got the right to vote and it was bullshit!
" THEY"said that during the civil right era and it was bullshit .
"THEY said that about rock &roll and that was bullshit!
etc...

Don't you think that American society is in decline?

No, I don't think so. I will agree that we are in an economic downswing right now, but society is doing fine.

I disagree. I think that you can not separate social and economic issues. Spiritual decline leads to economic decline and a decline in the ability to protect ourselves as a society and a world power.

 

[Gadawg73]

Don't you think that American society is in decline?

No, I don't think so. I will agree that we are in an economic downswing right now, but society is doing fine.

I disagree. I think that you can not separate social and economic issues. Spiritual decline leads to economic decline and a decline in the ability to protect ourselves as a society and a world power.

Earlier you claimed yours was not a religous argument.

 

[Toro]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

 

[garyganu]

No, I don't think so. I will agree that we are in an economic downswing right now, but society is doing fine.

I disagree. I think that you can not separate social and economic issues. Spiritual decline leads to economic decline and a decline in the ability to protect ourselves as a society and a world power.

Earlier you claimed yours was not a religous argument.

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance and gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking, phony self esteem and the hatred toward God.

 

[koshergrl]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

 

[garyganu]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

 

[WinterBorn]

I disagree. I think that you can not separate social and economic issues. Spiritual decline leads to economic decline and a decline in the ability to protect ourselves as a society and a world power.

Earlier you claimed yours was not a religous argument.

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. They also include the following:

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and phony self esteem.

I think much of this has to do with where you look and the influence of the media and politicians.

I have seen great examples of love, selflessness, courage and sacrifice. Spend some time working with disastor relief or working in an area hit by a disastor and you will see it too. The problem is, the media doesn't report it. They'd rather spew garbage that keep us uncomfortable or afraid. And that is because reporting fearful things is self-serving.

I see that the value given to beauty, popularity, coolness, wealth,pride, power, thrill seeking and fame have always been with us. These are nothing new. But again, the media loves to portray what they want. It is self-serving.

I see more people communicating with more different people than ever before in the history of mankind. Anytime we have more communication there is the potential for conflict, but also the potential for great things.

I see that we have more people having access to a quality education than ever before in our history. We have more people with more access to better medical care than ever before in our history. We have more people following their dreams. We have more people free to change professions and careers. We have people who, just a few decades ago, saw only limited options now having virtually unlimited opportunities. We have music, literature and arts available to more people from more sources than ever in our history.

I see unrest being portrayed because the populations are no longer able to be controlled, as they were just a few decades ago. If that scares you I am sorry.

I see our society in a flux, as these new freedoms create new avenues for people that did not exist a short time ago. If that scares you I am sorry.




One of the basic points you need to consider is the influence of the media. You can rant about porno and glamor junk ruining us. But what ruins us is the acceptance of news slanted to an agenda. That is what destroys. That is what causes fear. And teh reaction to that fear is damaging.

Think about when you watch the news. If you are having a great day, life is good and you feel hopeful, do you rush to turn on CNN or Fox? No. But if there is a disastor you certainly do. You watch news when you are scared. News is no longer a service. News is big business. And how do they keep you watching? By keeping you afraid. Stop being afraid and you'll be much happier.

Gays marrying will not destroy anything. It is a minor issue at best, unless you are gay and in a situation where on of the benefits of being married would help.

Our society is doing fine. The economic downturn was not created by gays or diversity or any of the other things you fear. It was created by greed and by the people in charge being uninterested in what is best for people.

 

[WinterBorn]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

Do you know what "exponentially higher" means? You have already been shown that crime rates are not exponentially higher. Abortion rates are flat or dropping. Fear-mongering is a classic control mechanism.

 

[WinterBorn]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

America is changing. It has always been changing. Change is inevitable.

And what are conservatives trying to restore America to? What are you trying to bring back?

 

[koshergrl]

Abortion rates have dropped for 10 years. They are still about 80 times what they were in 1972.

 

[koshergrl]

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

America is changing. It has always been changing. Change is inevitable.

And what are conservatives trying to restore America to? What are you trying to bring back?

Let's just say we'd like to see something like lower incidence of abortion, lower incidence of STDs, lower incidence of teen pregnancy, lower incidence of child abuse. I think that's a good place to start.

 

[koshergrl]

We are not in decline.

We certainly aren't in decline because of social issues like gay marriage. This has been the empty shrill siren call of the self-appointed moral Cassandras for 100 years.

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

Do you know what "exponentially higher" means? You have already been shown that crime rates are not exponentially higher. Abortion rates are flat or dropping. Fear-mongering is a classic control mechanism.

No, I haven't been shown anything. You SAYING something is not evidence of squat.

Here we have the classic example of a depraved individual trying to convince the masses that depravity = change and is therefore good.

It's GOOD that children are sexualized, it's GOOD that people are promiscuous, it's GOOD that more children are abused than ever before, it's GOOD that the sex slave market is booming, it's GOOD that abortion rates are higher, it's GOOD that divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates are higher.

All those are indicative of HEALTHY changes in society, according to WB.

 

[garyganu]

Earlier you claimed yours was not a religous argument.

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. They also include the following:

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and phony self esteem.

I think much of this has to do with where you look and the influence of the media and politicians.

I have seen great examples of love, selflessness, courage and sacrifice. Spend some time working with disastor relief or working in an area hit by a disastor and you will see it too. The problem is, the media doesn't report it. They'd rather spew garbage that keep us uncomfortable or afraid. And that is because reporting fearful things is self-serving.

I see that the value given to beauty, popularity, coolness, wealth,pride, power, thrill seeking and fame have always been with us. These are nothing new. But again, the media loves to portray what they want. It is self-serving.

I see more people communicating with more different people than ever before in the history of mankind. Anytime we have more communication there is the potential for conflict, but also the potential for great things.

I see that we have more people having access to a quality education than ever before in our history. We have more people with more access to better medical care than ever before in our history. We have more people following their dreams. We have more people free to change professions and careers. We have people who, just a few decades ago, saw only limited options now having virtually unlimited opportunities. We have music, literature and arts available to more people from more sources than ever in our history.

I see unrest being portrayed because the populations are no longer able to be controlled, as they were just a few decades ago. If that scares you I am sorry.

I see our society in a flux, as these new freedoms create new avenues for people that did not exist a short time ago. If that scares you I am sorry.




One of the basic points you need to consider is the influence of the media. You can rant about porno and glamor junk ruining us. But what ruins us is the acceptance of news slanted to an agenda. That is what destroys. That is what causes fear. And teh reaction to that fear is damaging.

Think about when you watch the news. If you are having a great day, life is good and you feel hopeful, do you rush to turn on CNN or Fox? No. But if there is a disastor you certainly do. You watch news when you are scared. News is no longer a service. News is big business. And how do they keep you watching? By keeping you afraid. Stop being afraid and you'll be much happier.

Gays marrying will not destroy anything. It is a minor issue at best, unless you are gay and in a situation where on of the benefits of being married would help.

Our society is doing fine. The economic downturn was not created by gays or diversity or any of the other things you fear. It was created by greed and by the people in charge being uninterested in what is best for people.

How can you say that our society is doing fine when the government borrows 43 cents for every dollar that it spends. This is unsustainable and nobody seems to to think that this is a critical problem that will destroy us unless we reduce the size and cost of government.

Also, American universities are a HUGE part of our decline. They promote an agenda that is anti-american, anti-God and anti-family. Without God, family and country, our nation will cease to exist. American universities do MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

There is nothing new about yellow journalism, However today's American culture is no longer able to discern the truth from lies because they have lost their moral compass.

 

[koshergrl]

Because he believes a promiscuous, diseased, abusive society is an improvement over a functional, healthy one. This is the sort of society that accommodates depraved individuals, and that's why you'll find depraved individuals advocating for it, and pretending it's preferrable to the alternative.

 

[WinterBorn]

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

Do you know what "exponentially higher" means? You have already been shown that crime rates are not exponentially higher. Abortion rates are flat or dropping. Fear-mongering is a classic control mechanism.

No, I haven't been shown anything. You SAYING something is not evidence of squat.

Here we have the classic example of a depraved individual trying to convince the masses that depravity = change and is therefore good.

It's GOOD that children are sexualized, it's GOOD that people are promiscuous, it's GOOD that more children are abused than ever before, it's GOOD that the sex slave market is booming, it's GOOD that abortion rates are higher, it's GOOD that divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates are higher.

All those are indicative of HEALTHY changes in society, according to WB.

Oh please, try and stick with what someone else has actually said.

Unless you can show where I said its good that children are sexualized, you have lied.

Unless you can show where I said its good that children are abused, you have lied.

Unless you can show where I said its good that the sex slave market's growth is good, you have lied.

Unless you can show where I said that higher abortion rates are good, you have lied.

Unless you can show where I said higher divorce rates are good, you have lied.

Unless you can show where I said higher teen pregnancy rates are good, you have lied.



In other words, you have blatantly lied numerous times. When you claim that these things have increased exponentially, and I argue and show links to the contrary, I am simply debunking your mistakes (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt & not calling them lies). I am not saying that any of these things are good.

 

[koshergrl]

You keep stating that we're in a great position, socially, that the changes we have undergone are an improvement.

Those are the changes we're talking about. So obviously you approve of them.

And at least you're finally acknowledging them now. I get so tired of you wackos just pretending that everything is peachy keen.Which of course tells me, and everybody else, that you like the changes.

As we all know you do.

 

[koshergrl]

And PS...did you or did you not say our society was doing just fine, except for a *slight* economic downturn?

 

[garyganu]

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

America is changing. It has always been changing. Change is inevitable.

And what are conservatives trying to restore America to? What are you trying to bring back?

I seek to restore the the basic values of God, family and country along with the spiritual values I mentioned above.

 

[WinterBorn]

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. They also include the following:

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and phony self esteem.

I think much of this has to do with where you look and the influence of the media and politicians.

I have seen great examples of love, selflessness, courage and sacrifice. Spend some time working with disastor relief or working in an area hit by a disastor and you will see it too. The problem is, the media doesn't report it. They'd rather spew garbage that keep us uncomfortable or afraid. And that is because reporting fearful things is self-serving.

I see that the value given to beauty, popularity, coolness, wealth,pride, power, thrill seeking and fame have always been with us. These are nothing new. But again, the media loves to portray what they want. It is self-serving.

I see more people communicating with more different people than ever before in the history of mankind. Anytime we have more communication there is the potential for conflict, but also the potential for great things.

I see that we have more people having access to a quality education than ever before in our history. We have more people with more access to better medical care than ever before in our history. We have more people following their dreams. We have more people free to change professions and careers. We have people who, just a few decades ago, saw only limited options now having virtually unlimited opportunities. We have music, literature and arts available to more people from more sources than ever in our history.

I see unrest being portrayed because the populations are no longer able to be controlled, as they were just a few decades ago. If that scares you I am sorry.

I see our society in a flux, as these new freedoms create new avenues for people that did not exist a short time ago. If that scares you I am sorry.




One of the basic points you need to consider is the influence of the media. You can rant about porno and glamor junk ruining us. But what ruins us is the acceptance of news slanted to an agenda. That is what destroys. That is what causes fear. And teh reaction to that fear is damaging.

Think about when you watch the news. If you are having a great day, life is good and you feel hopeful, do you rush to turn on CNN or Fox? No. But if there is a disastor you certainly do. You watch news when you are scared. News is no longer a service. News is big business. And how do they keep you watching? By keeping you afraid. Stop being afraid and you'll be much happier.

Gays marrying will not destroy anything. It is a minor issue at best, unless you are gay and in a situation where on of the benefits of being married would help.

Our society is doing fine. The economic downturn was not created by gays or diversity or any of the other things you fear. It was created by greed and by the people in charge being uninterested in what is best for people.

How can you say that our society is doing fine when the government borrows 43 cents for every dollar that it spends. This is unsustainable and nobody seems to to think that this is a critical problem that will destroy us unless we reduce the size and cost of government.

Now this is something we agree on. We probably disagree on the causes, but we agree it is unsustainable. Gov't spending must be cut. At the same time, the system of taxation inthis country must be changed.

Also, American universities are a HUGE part of our decline. They promote an agenda that is anti-american, anti-God and anti-family. Without God, family and country, our nation will cease to exist. American universities do MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

There is nothing new about yellow journalism, However today's American culture is no longer able to discern the truth from lies because they have lost their moral compass.

Universities do more harm than good? The level of technology and engineering that comes from university educated people has profoundly changed our world. But, because you think liberals threaten morality, they cause more harm than good?

Look at the treatment options and survival rates for thousands of diseases and types of cancers. Tens of thousands of people are alive and healthy because of these advances at universities and by university trained medical people. But they do more harm than good?

Nonsense.