A rant on pain management, in this country.

[lizzie]

To me, it sounds like an issue between you and your doctors, and not a political issue.

UGH! Yes, I have seen debates about it on C-Span. Jaysus, never mind!

So, exactly what is it that you want? Your congressman to call your doc and tell him to prescribe?

As I said, I haven't found any new mandates on control of narcotics since 2007, and it appears that it is for the triplicate rx drugs- not the synthetics and short-acting drugs. If your issue was that you wanted a less regulated drug, which is what it sounds like, then federal mandates would most likely not have affected the issue you were having.

 

[whitehall]

Legend has it that Elvis used to have a Physicians PDR book next to his bed and a Dr. Feelgood on call. The King would simply mimic symptoms to correspond with the drug he craved at the moment and the druggist would have it ready. Pain is a bitch and chronic pain can be dulled with regular dosages of drugs. Frankly I'm surprised that a person suffering from a disease that causes sudden "flairs" of pain doesn't have the prescription or the medication handy to deal with the problem.

Uhm....I KNOW, that you're not suggesting that I don't have MS! Please tell me that I'm misinterpreting what you're saying!

I'm suggesting that you are misrepresenting your condition for whatever reason. I'm suggesting that a diagnosed condition that involves flared pain episodes should be covered by prescription medicine. I'm suggesting that maybe the state prescription authorities might want to look into your situation.

 

[geauxtohell]

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

 

[geauxtohell]

What about an electronic nerve blocker implant?

Useless.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think you should go to the pain clinic. What's your problem with the pain clinic?

That's the purpose of a pain clinic...managing pain. You should at least give it a try.

What happens with other people suffering from MS? Do they also have pain? How is it treated? Sounds like a forum for people with MS might provide you with some help and answers. Maybe?

There is a stigma attached to pain clinics. I'm just recalling how many people I've intubated and treated from OD's from pain clinics. In THIS state, they are considered legal drug pushers; and this area....not very highly respected.

I have and do belong to an MS forum/chat. The reason that I am posting in here, is I'm wondering if anyone is aware of anything political...recently...that has addressed this ridiculous issue. I'm here, because this to me, is a political issue. And because I belonged to this forum LONG before I was diagnosed with MS.

And yes, I'm totally with Ron Paul on the "War on Drugs". I believe it has been a disaster. Now...do we need someone to make sure that people don't place harmful chemicals into the drugs that we swallow? Yes. (Even though it somehow continues in cigarette smoke with no problems).

And no, it's not constant pain. But when you have 7-10 days of involuntary contractions in a part of your body...it's going to get sore. This makes perfect sense to me.

Now there is constant numbness in certain areas, but pain? Only after a flare. And it sux.

Ever hear of Siobhan Reynolds and the Pain Relief Netwrok? Are you aware that the DOJ conducted a criminal investigation that effectively shut down her advocacy? Just because the government does not issue new rules does not mean that doctors who handle pain relief issues are not under pressure not to prescribe pain meds to people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

Unfortunately, the government does not agree with you. This is the same government that some people want to trust with health care.

 

[HUGGY]

I would just like to rant about the current status of pain management in the USA!

Some of you know....care....don't care... (and who cares?) that I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis on Dec. 29, 2011. I'm not looking for pity; and this is totally not the point of this thread.

What I am PISSED about, is the the quality of pain management that we as patients receive.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with many autoimmune disorders....in autoimmune disorders, we have what are called "flares". Basically these are flare-ups of the wonderful, MULTITUDE of symptoms that go along with these diseases.

I recently had a flare that lasted for 7 days. My left hip began to spasm on New Year's night. I mean VIOLENTLY spasm-with fasciculations so bad, that it looked like an alien was going to pop out of my leg. I couldn't walk when they would start. I found myself on the bathroom floor three nights in a row, unable to walk back to bed. The pain was excruciating, that I thought I'd fractured my hip, spontaneously. Worse than any kidney stone, or ovarian cyst that I've had....and I've had a few. (TMI? Okay....I'll get to the point.)

3 days into this, I finally contacted my neurologist. Pain medication? No. Even though I was biting my lip not to scream on the phone. I got to talk to her "nurse" (medical assistant.....hey....no offense guys, but there is a huge difference between the two) and was basically told to hang in there. And a day passes, I'm still basically flat on my back, unable to stand for more than 15 seconds without having to sit down, due to the monstrous fasiculations. I get a call that home health will be to my house the next day for 5 days of solu-medrol IV infusions; and to make sure that I take TUMS between infusions for the gastrointestinal discomfort. Nothing for pain...for the muscle soreness that accompanied my involuntary muscle contractions in the above-mentioned. Gee thanks, doc.

I received the infusions, which stopped the contractures. And now, it feels like I've spent a week hiking and rock climbing. And I've done this many times my friends, so I know that there is going to be some amino acid buildup afterward for several days. I was in fantastic shape before all this began. Also, rheumatoid arthritis hasn't been ruled out, yet. We're just trying to halt the (MS) disease process, right now. One lesion on my cervical spinal cord is enough.

And finally down to the point of this entire thread:
The significant dosage of neurontin was not helping (what I thought was probably muscle soreness secondary to the contractions). I explained to this...medical assistant, that I was ingesting approximately 3200mg ibuprofen daily-to the point that I was beginning to get gastrointestinal symptoms as well. This didn't even strike a c-major in this woman. "Well......Dr. (no giving name) wants to try botox injections."

I asked these people if I could have 10 pain pills....would have settled for tylenol 3, tramadol...whatever. Nope. SOL and JWF!

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

What do I do? Write my representative. My fiance being a pharmacist, told me that doing so might be cathartic, it's probably a waste of time.

So what if you have bulging disks in your lower back. I have 2, and have managed to work...FOR YEARS....without pain medication or disability. Now, I have a true disability, with occasional disabling pain, and I can't get the help I need. Life is not fair...but this is BEYOND UNFAIR. Just 10 pills please, doc. That's all I'm asking.

Thanks for listening; and I'm open for any suggestions, rebuttals, etc... Bring them on.

Your pain makes you a more compliant consumer. Why would they want to change THAT?

 

[geauxtohell]

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

Unfortunately, the government does not agree with you. This is the same government that some people want to trust with health care.

Doctors have a lot of latitude to prescribe medications and no one is going to get in trouble for using narcotics for pain control when it's legitimately indicated. The physicians that get in trouble are the ones that are completely loose with their script pad for several patients.

This isn't a government regulation issue. It's an issue of narcotics having a horrible rap now due to all the drug seekers.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

Unfortunately, the government does not agree with you. This is the same government that some people want to trust with health care.

Doctors have a lot of latitude to prescribe medications and no one is going to get in trouble for using narcotics for pain control when it's legitimately indicated. The physicians that get in trouble are the ones that are completely loose with their script pad for several patients.

This isn't a government regulation issue. It's an issue of narcotics having a horrible rap now due to all the drug seekers.

Would you like to bet on that? If no one is get in trouble for the legitimate use of painkillers why are doctors offices being raided? Why are pain patients in prison for using prescription medications?

Port Townsend clinic reopens after search by drug agents -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily news

Punishing Pain - New York Times

The problem with your statement is that the government has a different idea of a legitimate need than some doctors, and juries tend to side with the government in cases like the ones above. You are a doctor, you need to educate yourself on the realities of government response to prescriptions for narcotics before you end up being forced to chose between lying about a patient and going to prison. The evidence does not support your naive trust in being right.

 

[Douger]

Injection of ValdureIM 40 yyyyyyyyyyy Dipronova ?
I'm not sure if those are OK in the land of duh "free" ?
A 2 week vacation in Managua is cheaper than a night in the ER in murka.
They have REAL doctors. Gracias Don Fidel.

 

[mskafka]

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

THANK YOU! I don't want to stay fried all day long. I just want to be able to move when the spasms are over. And I don't want for someone to suggest that I don't hurt. I was always taught that this was a no-no. Now, I have given narcs to people before that I KNEW probably didn't need it. But lying on the bathroom floor screaming....scooting on your ass to the bed...pretty good indication of pain.

 

[mskafka]

I think you should go to the pain clinic. What's your problem with the pain clinic?

That's the purpose of a pain clinic...managing pain. You should at least give it a try.

What happens with other people suffering from MS? Do they also have pain? How is it treated? Sounds like a forum for people with MS might provide you with some help and answers. Maybe?

There is a stigma attached to pain clinics. I'm just recalling how many people I've intubated and treated from OD's from pain clinics. In THIS state, they are considered legal drug pushers; and this area....not very highly respected.

I have and do belong to an MS forum/chat. The reason that I am posting in here, is I'm wondering if anyone is aware of anything political...recently...that has addressed this ridiculous issue. I'm here, because this to me, is a political issue. And because I belonged to this forum LONG before I was diagnosed with MS.

And yes, I'm totally with Ron Paul on the "War on Drugs". I believe it has been a disaster. Now...do we need someone to make sure that people don't place harmful chemicals into the drugs that we swallow? Yes. (Even though it somehow continues in cigarette smoke with no problems).

And no, it's not constant pain. But when you have 7-10 days of involuntary contractions in a part of your body...it's going to get sore. This makes perfect sense to me.

Now there is constant numbness in certain areas, but pain? Only after a flare. And it sux.

Ever hear of Siobhan Reynolds and the Pain Relief Netwrok? Are you aware that the DOJ conducted a criminal investigation that effectively shut down her advocacy? Just because the government does not issue new rules does not mean that doctors who handle pain relief issues are not under pressure not to prescribe pain meds to people.

Yes, I personally know several physicians who have been called to the carpet for overprescribing narcotics. As I said before....my fiance is a pharmacist who told me that while complaining to congress might be cathartic, it is probably a waste of time.

I think I'm just perplexed. I don't need dope all the time, but I shouldn't have to beg for it during a flare. I realize that there are different types of pain, but don't offer me botox injections when I'm on the floor with hip and leg spasms.

 

[mskafka]

Legend has it that Elvis used to have a Physicians PDR book next to his bed and a Dr. Feelgood on call. The King would simply mimic symptoms to correspond with the drug he craved at the moment and the druggist would have it ready. Pain is a bitch and chronic pain can be dulled with regular dosages of drugs. Frankly I'm surprised that a person suffering from a disease that causes sudden "flairs" of pain doesn't have the prescription or the medication handy to deal with the problem.

Uhm....I KNOW, that you're not suggesting that I don't have MS! Please tell me that I'm misinterpreting what you're saying!

I'm suggesting that you are misrepresenting your condition for whatever reason. I'm suggesting that a diagnosed condition that involves flared pain episodes should be covered by prescription medicine. I'm suggesting that maybe the state prescription authorities might want to look into your situation.

Hmmmmm....a lesion on my spinal cord at C-2. 13 oligoclonal bands, per lumbar puncture. Not a misrepresentation. I wish it were a fucking nightmare; but it's very real.

 

[mskafka]

I had to go to my PCP who seemed to understand that I was in a lot of discomfort, and gave me what I asked for. Nothing more. Nothing less. I wasn't asking for 90 oxycontin, or 50 fentanyl patches. This is the FIRST time I have asked for something narcotic-wise since this disease process began. And now, I feel like a criminal. I have been referred to a "pain clinic". I find that very insulting. All I want to do, is to be able to return to work, and walk with full range-of-motion of my extremities. I'm getting physical therapy, trying to exercise...doing all the right things.

I want to thank all of the dope dealers out there who go to these establishments, and get these pills to sell. Has it ever crossed your minds to get off your duff and get a job.....do something with yourself? You make me sick to my stomach.

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

Prick their finger to drip blood into their urine? What the hell is wrong with these fucking people? PLEASE! I'll trade my health for yours.

Let me ski, rock-climb, hike, rappel, kayak...etc... These things will either be challenging, or impossible, now. And some people can't get past their next fix.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is a stigma attached to pain clinics. I'm just recalling how many people I've intubated and treated from OD's from pain clinics. In THIS state, they are considered legal drug pushers; and this area....not very highly respected.

I have and do belong to an MS forum/chat. The reason that I am posting in here, is I'm wondering if anyone is aware of anything political...recently...that has addressed this ridiculous issue. I'm here, because this to me, is a political issue. And because I belonged to this forum LONG before I was diagnosed with MS.

And yes, I'm totally with Ron Paul on the "War on Drugs". I believe it has been a disaster. Now...do we need someone to make sure that people don't place harmful chemicals into the drugs that we swallow? Yes. (Even though it somehow continues in cigarette smoke with no problems).

And no, it's not constant pain. But when you have 7-10 days of involuntary contractions in a part of your body...it's going to get sore. This makes perfect sense to me.

Now there is constant numbness in certain areas, but pain? Only after a flare. And it sux.

Ever hear of Siobhan Reynolds and the Pain Relief Netwrok? Are you aware that the DOJ conducted a criminal investigation that effectively shut down her advocacy? Just because the government does not issue new rules does not mean that doctors who handle pain relief issues are not under pressure not to prescribe pain meds to people.

Yes, I personally know several physicians who have been called to the carpet for overprescribing narcotics. As I said before....my fiance is a pharmacist who told me that while complaining to congress might be cathartic, it is probably a waste of time.

I think I'm just perplexed. I don't need dope all the time, but I shouldn't have to beg for it during a flare. I realize that there are different types of pain, but don't offer me botox injections when I'm on the floor with hip and leg spasms.

I know about pain, I just had another bout of kidney stones. I have been at the point where the only thing that begins to ease it is screaming in pain, and was thankful that the ER here in San Francisco doesn't wait until a doctor sees the X-rays before they will give it to you. That happened in Fort Worth, more than once. I know people who need pain meds should be able to get it without them, or their doctors, having to worry about the government.

 

[editec]

Thanks to our confused thinking about drugs in general, people who are truly in need of pain meds often don't get the relief they need.

Sucks, doesn't it?

 

[mskafka]

I don't know why they wouldn't give you Ultram.......... It's non-narcotic.

Other than that, you've hit the nail on the head. If you think the current crop of doctors is bad, wait until my generation gets in there. We've been conditioned (by drug seekers) to hate narcotic pain pills. You know it's bad when examining the fingers of a patient who complains of a kidney stone and has blood in their urine is a mandatory part of the physical exam. Why? Because shit bags prick their fingers to contaminate their urine to malinger.

Only proximately related, but I taught an old school doctor something the other day when I pointed out that the patient (with a past history of cocaine use) had a long pinky nail which means they were probably using cocaine currently.

Anyways, if you have been trained at a community or county or inter city hospital, you've had a significant amount of OJT training to determine who is really sick and who is hustling you.

FWIW, in my opinion, anyone with any sort of chronic, wasting condition should get whatever pain control they want.

Unfortunately, the government does not agree with you. This is the same government that some people want to trust with health care.

Doctors have a lot of latitude to prescribe medications and no one is going to get in trouble for using narcotics for pain control when it's legitimately indicated. The physicians that get in trouble are the ones that are completely loose with their script pad for several patients.

This isn't a government regulation issue. It's an issue of narcotics having a horrible rap now due to all the drug seekers.

I do wish that the gov't didn't have so much control over what is acceptable prescribing standards. However, I'm sure that you have a MUCH bigger grasp on those laws than any of us.

That's why I got aggravated about being referred to a pain clinic (which I suggested myself, out of desperation). What I see too often, and I'm sure that you know exactly what I'm talking about, is these people who go in and get a 90-day supply of oxycontin and hit the street-selling them for $10+/pill. How difficult is it, really, to be productive? I came from NOTHING. We were POOR.

I understand that everyone's situation is different, but it's very frustrating.

 

[geauxtohell]

Would you like to bet on that? If no one is get in trouble for the legitimate use of painkillers why are doctors offices being raided? Why are pain patients in prison for using prescription medications?

Port Townsend clinic reopens after search by drug agents -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily news

Punishing Pain - New York Times

The problem with your statement is that the government has a different idea of a legitimate need than some doctors, and juries tend to side with the government in cases like the ones above. You are a doctor, you need to educate yourself on the realities of government response to prescriptions for narcotics before you end up being forced to chose between lying about a patient and going to prison. The evidence does not support your naive trust in being right.

If that link was supposed to be persuasive, it probably wasn't the best example as that physician hasn't been charged with anything and it appears the raid was unfruitful.

As for the second link, it's more of an example of how stupid mandatory sentencing is for drug crimes. The patient in question maintains that he didn't forge scripts (a felony), the prosecution managed to convince a jury of his peers that he did. I am not going to simply accept OPED that the physician lied under oath. Sorry.

For the first link, if you hold yourself to be a "pain specialist" and prescribe narcotics, you know you are going to be under the microscope by the DEA. It's the cost of doing business. Most medications aren't monitored by the DEA, so if you choose to deal in pain management, you accept that the DEA is going to be up your keester with a microscope.

Of course, if there weren't well established patterns of wrong doing by physicians and patients for medications that are chemically the same as heroin, then the DEA probably wouldn't care.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/crim_admin_actions/doctors_criminal_cases.pdf

As for me, after four years as a student, I have seen more patient scams to get narcotics then I can imagine. From the patient who complained of massive belly pain to the point of crying on physical exam (and then walked out of the hospital tear-free when told she wouldn't get narcotic pain pills) to the "I am allergic to everything but dilaudid" canard to loath narcotics. They have their place, unfortunately, about a decade of over prescribing them as a whole by the health care community "Pain, the 5th vital sign", there are some real bad actors in the world.

Underlying any physicians actions is (or should be) what is best for the patient - and not fear of legal sanction. Over prescribing pain pills is bad medicine.

 

[geauxtohell]

Prick their finger to drip blood into their urine? What the hell is wrong with these fucking people? PLEASE! I'll trade my health for yours.

Yep.

Let me ski, rock-climb, hike, rappel, kayak...etc... These things will either be challenging, or impossible, now. And some people can't get past their next fix.

They are just junkies. I like heroin addicts better. IMO, they are at least honest about their smack addiction.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Would you like to bet on that? If no one is get in trouble for the legitimate use of painkillers why are doctors offices being raided? Why are pain patients in prison for using prescription medications?

Port Townsend clinic reopens after search by drug agents -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily news

Punishing Pain - New York Times

The problem with your statement is that the government has a different idea of a legitimate need than some doctors, and juries tend to side with the government in cases like the ones above. You are a doctor, you need to educate yourself on the realities of government response to prescriptions for narcotics before you end up being forced to chose between lying about a patient and going to prison. The evidence does not support your naive trust in being right.

If that link was supposed to be persuasive, it probably wasn't the best example as that physician hasn't been charged with anything and it appears the raid was unfruitful.

As for the second link, it's more of an example of how stupid mandatory sentencing is for drug crimes. The patient in question maintains that he didn't forge scripts (a felony), the prosecution managed to convince a jury of his peers that he did. I am not going to simply accept OPED that the physician lied under oath. Sorry.

For the first link, if you hold yourself to be a "pain specialist" and prescribe narcotics, you know you are going to be under the microscope by the DEA. It's the cost of doing business. Most medications aren't monitored by the DEA, so if you choose to deal in pain management, you accept that the DEA is going to be up your keester with a microscope.

Of course, if there weren't well established patterns of wrong doing by physicians and patients for medications that are chemically the same as heroin, then the DEA probably wouldn't care.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/crim_admin_actions/doctors_criminal_cases.pdf

As for me, after four years as a student, I have seen more patient scams to get narcotics then I can imagine. From the patient who complained of massive belly pain to the point of crying on physical exam (and then walked out of the hospital tear-free when told she wouldn't get narcotic pain pills) to the "I am allergic to everything but dilaudid" canard to loath narcotics. They have their place, unfortunately, about a decade of over prescribing them as a whole by the health care community "Pain, the 5th vital sign", there are some real bad actors in the world.

Underlying any physicians actions is (or should be) what is best for the patient - and not fear of legal sanction. Over prescribing pain pills is bad medicine.

You think the raid was unfruitful? I am willing to bet you that, after the government seized all his patient records, he was unable to actually treat them, and that he lost at least half his patients who, understandably, do not want the government prying into their health. The raid was nothing more than intimidation, and its sole intent was make sure the doctor got the message that treating patients for pain is a risky business.

How is the second link an indication of mandatory sentencing? Did I miss something in the article that talked about prior drug convictions? He was getting pain meds for personal use, the government got his doctor to lie on the stand, and he went to prison for selling drugs. By the way, if you think the doctor was not lying you will have to convince me that the pharmacist, knowing that federal and state laws would hold him responsible for giving to many prescriptions for opiates to a customer never called the doctor to verify them. I only had one prescription for 20 pills, non refillable, and they verified it.

Do some doctors and patients abuse the system?

Yes.

Does that justify the government restricting everyone?

No.