Zone1 A question for the USMB left.

[Orangecat]

if a pregnant woman becomes brain dead the living ZEF will soon die because there is only one central nervous information processing system energized by one human brain that sustains the lives of two separate bodies.

That isn't proof that they share consciousness, only that one relies on the other for sustenance.

 

[Orangecat]

I agree one hundred percent.

MY POINT IS THAT FOR THE FIRST 20 weeks there is only one central nervous information processing system energized by one human brain that sustains the lives of two separate bodies. nfbw 240418 Vwdmms00227

Do you have a counter argument to the above?

It's not a counter argument, it's just a fact: they don't share consciousness.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Don't worry I don't hate you

Joking about dead babies, how Leftist of you.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

That isn't proof that they share consciousness, only that one relies on the other for sustenance.

It's not a counter argument, it's just a fact: they don't share consciousness.

So at 20 weeks or fewer the fetus relies on the mother being conscious and alive for it’s sustenance because the fetus does not have its own consciousness developed within that amount of time.

If the woman decides to abort her pregnancy within twenty weeks there is no disagreeing from you Saint Orangecat with the reality that there is no conscious human being or conscious person being put to death. In fact the ZEF is legally brain dead from the moment of conception and incapable of sustaining its own life even with the artificial means of modern medicine.

 

[Orangecat]

So at 20 weeks or fewer the fetus relies on the mother being conscious and alive for it’s sustenance because the fetus does not have its own consciousness developed within that amount of time.

If the woman decides to abort her pregnancy within twenty weeks there is no disagreeing from you Saint Orangecat with the reality that there is no conscious human being or conscious person being put to death. In fact the ZEF is legally brain dead from the moment of conception and incapable of sustaining its own life even with the artificial means of modern medicine.

Your are falsely equating consciousness with life. it's a human life in its first stages of development. Consciousness, being a complex function, manifests itself somewhere along the path. That doesn't mean it is shared with the mother at any point.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Your are falsely equating consciousness with life

I am not at all. The ZEF is alive however it’s not equal to a conscious person in any way shape or form and any legal standard.

 

[Orangecat]

I am not at all. The ZEF is alive however it’s not equal to a conscious person in any way shape or form and any legal standard.

It is equally alive, just not equally developed.
Legal standards change quite often and are not an accurate measure of objective truth.
I think we just disagree on what consciousness actually means.
I lean towards "self aware".
At no point does the fetus share self awareness with the mother.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

It is equally alive, just not equally developed.

Yes! Status = brain dead or insufficient development to be considered legal brain alive before potential viability.

There is only one conscious person inside the body of a pregnant woman even though there are at least two separate bodies. The conscious person does kill another conscious person when terminating a pregnant before a separate consciousness is possible.

 

[Hector12]

How do you determine these "genetic inclinations"? By reverse engineering behavior and guessing?

I would continue genetic research. Many genes for IQ have been found One gene for violent crime has been found. The crime gene was found in a white family, but it is much more likely to be found among Negroes than whites.

 

[Orangecat]

Yes! Status = brain dead or insufficient development to be considered legal brain alive before potential viability.

There is only one conscious person inside the body of a pregnant woman even though there are at least two separate bodies. The conscious person does kill another conscious person when terminating a pregnant before a separate consciousness is possible.

Not sure what your point is here.
My point is that the mother and the fetus do not share a single consciousness.
They share a physical bond that supplies one with nutrients, but that does not share consciousness.

 

[Orangecat]

I would continue genetic research. Many genes for IQ have been found One gene for violent crime has been found. The crime gene was found in a white family, but it is much more likely to be found among Negroes than whites.

Before you jump to conclusions, I would remind you that correlation is not necessarily causation.

 

[Rambunctious]

The left are the extremists today... they are spoiled and are radicalized from early on... so anyone who disagrees with them gets an ear full...
It never crosses their mind that they could be wrong... and that they could be harming the nation they live in...
That will change when the you know what hits the fan but of course that will be too late...

 

[Oddball]

The left are the extremists today... they are spoiled and are radicalized from early on... so anyone who disagrees with them gets an ear full...
It never crosses their mind that they could be wrong... and that they could be harming the nation they live in...
That will change when the you know what hits the fan but of course that will be too late...

#122

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Not sure what your point is here.
My point is that the mother and the fetus do not share a single consciousness.
They share a physical bond that supplies one with nutrients, but that does not share consciousness.

The physical bond of which you speak must must most crucially include the potential birth mother’s consciousness which she shares with the ZEF throughout gestation.

The point is that there is only one consciousness in the woman’s body prior to the development of second one of the fetus.

To the Christian it is believed that human beings are made in the image of God. As a rational theist I contemplate it is not a fallible argument to make that the image of God ‘rationally’ would include a capacity for human consciousnes that is relatable to the idea of a personal God.

Curiously in nature, human pregnancies are susceptible to natural abortion up until about 20 weeks. For whatever that is worth.

 

[Oddball]

The physical bond of which you speak must must most crucially include the potential birth mother’s consciousness which she shares with the ZEF throughout gestation.

The point is that there is only one consciousness in the woman’s body prior to the development of second one of the fetus.

There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to support that claim.

Now, quit hijacking the thread.

 

[Orangecat]

The physical bond of which you speak must must most crucially include the potential birth mother’s consciousness which she shares with the ZEF throughout gestation.

The point is that there is only one consciousness in the woman’s body prior to the development of second one of the fetus.

To the Christian it is believed that human beings are made in the image of God. As a rational theist I contemplate it is not a fallible argument to make that the image of God ‘rationally’ would include a capacity for human consciousnes that is relatable to the idea of a personal God.

Curiously in nature, human pregnancies are susceptible to natural abortion up until about 20 weeks. For whatever that is worth.

Again, I think we aren't in agreement on what constitutes "consciousness". I consider it to be self-awareness, basically. The fetus is not self aware, and therefore cannot be sharing the mother's consciousness. We don't have to agree on this. The fetus cannot see through her eyes, hear through her ears, or share her thoughts. Those things would be present in a shared consciousness. A fetus in its first stages lacks the capacity to do such things. It's just a new human life that will grow into a fully functioning individual if allowed to follow its natural path.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to support that claim.

Is there a scientific study that disputes what a I’m saying?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Now, quit hijacking the thread.

I am responding to this from the OP:

A question for the USMB left 240413 {post•1} Orangecat Apr’24 Saqftu: ”I’m against abortion.” rngct 240413 Saqftu00001

If you are against abortion Saint Oddball. Do not be involved in one.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

It's not a counter argument, it's just a fact: they don't share consciousness.

Thats ok because you accept the critical fact a ZEF has no consciousness prior to 21 weeks.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

I have a sincere question for the lefties here.
Why do you so many of you label disagreement as “hate”?
Example:
“I believe marriage is a religious institution, between a man and a woman.”
Lefty answer: “Why do you hate gays?”
Or:
“”I’m against abortion.”
Lefty answer: “Why do you hate women?”

Is it an Alinsky thing, painting your adversaries as extremist haters?
Something else?

Could be that these leftist have a drug problem of some sorts.

This is an issue across social media . Many many times when any topic is presented A lefty will come in and gaslight, ignore the topic, or engage in personal attacks .