Zone1 A Question For Pro-Choicers

[alang1216]

Actually I have never made any such claim. Can you show me how you arrived at that conclusion because I believe you are skipping steps you shouldn't be skipping.

Post #487

 

[koshergrl]

You are certainly welcome to your beliefs but do not expect everyone to accept your assertions as facts.

I see a BIG difference between a fertilized egg and an adult woman. Whatever rights that egg has, if any, are trumped by that woman.

The fact is that that isn't true. Ppl don't get "less rights" because of their location or dependence. Your feelings about it don't change the fact. Which is that elective abortion is negative eugenics and industrialized abortion is a crime against humanity.
The other fact you don't care about is the fact that most women claim they were coerced into abortion.
You don't care about facts because you, by your own admission, don't care about human rights. That's a fact, too.

 

[ding]

Given enough time and good fortune, that egg will develop into a person capable of thinking and feeling and sensing. Until then, it is just another organic molecule.

Again... that's not what the science shows. The science shows a human being in its early stages of the human life cycle.

"An individual human life begins at conception when a sperm cell from the father fuses with an egg cell from the mother, to form a new cell, the zygote, the first embryonic stage. The zygote grows and divides into two daughter cells, each of which grows and divides into two grand-daughter cells, and this cell growth/division process continues on, over and over again. The zygote is the start of a biological continuum that automatically grows and develops, passing gradually and sequentially through the stages we call foetus, baby, child, adult, old person and ending eventually in death. The full genetic instructions to guide the development of the continuum, in interaction with its environment, are present in the zygote. Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."​

Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland​

 

[ding]

Does each living being have a inviolable right to life?

That's a question for each state to decide.

 

[alang1216]

You should try looking at it like it is in reality. A human being on it's early stages of the human life cycle which begins at conception and ends at death. In other words, it's not just DNA per se. The DNA is the evidence for human life.

Sperm are also an early stage, should they be protected?

Just curious though... you seem to be implying that there is some DNA that you look at as a person. Did you make a mistake in saying that? If not, can you explain which DNA you look at and see a human?

You misunderstood me, all DNA are just molecules. Nothing more.

 

[ding]

You claim to know what is and what is not human so this should be easy to answer.

Actually your question implies a legal ruling on murder as that was the term you used. So the answer is not quite as easy as you are implying.

What I will tell you is that if a new genetically distinct person comes into existence then ending its life is not something that should be taken lightly. And that would be true whether it was done naturally or in a test tube.

It's important to understand that that human life is a very specific human life. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. So with regard to that specific human life there is a finality that can never be undone if that life is ended.

 

[alang1216]

Again... that's not what the science shows. The science shows a human being in its early stages of the human life cycle.

"An individual human life begins at conception when a sperm cell from the father fuses with an egg cell from the mother, to form a new cell, the zygote, the first embryonic stage. The zygote grows and divides into two daughter cells, each of which grows and divides into two grand-daughter cells, and this cell growth/division process continues on, over and over again. The zygote is the start of a biological continuum that automatically grows and develops, passing gradually and sequentially through the stages we call foetus, baby, child, adult, old person and ending eventually in death. The full genetic instructions to guide the development of the continuum, in interaction with its environment, are present in the zygote. Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."​

Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland​

I think is more than our DNA that makes us persons

 

[ding]

You claim to know what is and what is not human so this should be easy to answer.

Actually it's science that informs us of that. Not me. I'm just telling you what the science says.

 

[alang1216]

Actually your question implies a legal ruling on murder as that was the term you used. So the answer is not quite as easy as you are implying.

What I will tell you is that if a new genetically distinct person comes into existence then ending its life is not something that should be taken lightly. And that would be true whether it was done naturally or in a test tube.

It's important to understand that that human life is a very specific human life. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. So with regard to that specific human life there is a finality that can never be undone if that life is ended.

At last we agree. Abortion is a tragedy but there are worse tragedies.

 

[ding]

Post #487

I don't see the connection in that and I don't think you do either which is why your answer was post #487. Can you connect the dots for me because I think you are still skipping steps that shouldn't be skipped. I don't believe you would appreciate me doing to you what you are trying to do to me. So you should stop putting words in my mouth that I never said.

 

[alang1216]

The other fact you don't care about is the fact that most women claim they were coerced into abortion.

Got a link to that study?

 

[ding]

Sperm are also an early stage, should they be protected?

Now you are just being silly. Please don't tell me that you believe that sperm is a new genetically distinct human being.

 

[ding]

You misunderstood me, all DNA are just molecules. Nothing more.

So is the woman, right? So why would you even make a distinction?

Unless of course you were trying to dehumanize a new genetically distinct human being in its earliest stages of the human life cycle, right?

 

[alang1216]

I don't see the connection in that and I don't think you do either which is why your answer was post #487. Can you connect the dots for me because I think you are still skipping steps that shouldn't be skipped. I don't believe you would appreciate me doing to you what you are trying to do to me. So you should stop putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Have to wait until tomorrow, I'm going to bed now.

 

[ding]

I think is more than our DNA that makes us persons

That's nice. Are you going to start making a soul argument? Because as far as science is concerned, human life begins at conception.

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being...[this] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion, it is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence...." - Dr Jerome LeJeune, Professor of Genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down's Syndrome, and Nobel Prize Winner​

 

[ding]

At last we agree. Abortion is a tragedy but there are worse tragedies.

Sure and they have nothing to do with this discussion unless you are making a two wrongs makes a right argument.

But if you see abortion as a tragedy, then why won't you say it is wrong to abort a human life? Or even acknowledge that abortion ends a human life? You can always say you still support it even though it's wrong.

 

[ding]

At last we agree. Abortion is a tragedy but there are worse tragedies.

Does that mean you don't agree that at conception a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence even though that's what the science tells us?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It’s an issue between the pregnant woman and her conscience.
And no one else.

Interesting.
You oppose Roe v Wade?

 

[dblack]

Your disparagement of females is noted, and typical. Abortion is a violation of the human rights of women as well as their dependent children.

Oh, you know better than that. I'm disparaging busybody, self-righteous jackasses who wan't to regulate procreation. Just can't mind your own business.

 

[koshergrl]

You claim to know what is and what is not human so this should be easy to answer.

Everybody knows what a human is, except for the ppl who want to butcher them.

Oh, you know better than that. I'm disparaging busybody, self-righteous jackasses who wan't to regulate procreation. Just can't mind your own business.

No, you are gaslighting women in order to keep them from telling other women that their children have value.