A paradigm shift is under way

[Billy_Bob]

Would love nothing more than for alternatives to provide for our future. Sadly, the facts don't show us that will happen.

Are Electric Cars Really Green?

Mark

Bjorne Lomborg. He has been wrong on almost everything that he has addressed.

So lets just ask a logical question. Can you see the argument being made in this video, that electric cars are not a panacea? Unless that electrical power comes from an nuclear plant, how are electric vehicles saving the planet?

Mark

Your dealing with an idiot who has no concept of charging rates and needs in amperage to complete the task.. HE still thinks the name plate value of wind and solar are what it puts out 24/7/365..

You cant fix stupid..

 

[80zephyr]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

Mark

 

[Billy_Bob]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

Mark

If you include production of these things we actually rise by about 1.2%

There is no significant reduction of anything..

 

[westwall]

The Porche 918 costs nearly a million bucks, seats only two, and is slower to the legal limit than is the P100D Tesla. Overall, the Tesla is a better car, and will be running long after the Porche is scrap metal in a junk yard.

That's a pretty laughable assertion given the track record of Porsche values. What happens when you "brick" the battery in the Tesla olfraud?

 

[Billy_Bob]

The Porche 918 costs nearly a million bucks, seats only two, and is slower to the legal limit than is the P100D Tesla. Overall, the Tesla is a better car, and will be running long after the Porche is scrap metal in a junk yard.

That's a pretty laughable assertion given the track record of Porsche values. What happens when you "brick" the battery in the Tesla olfraud?

MOAB

 

[mamooth]

It`s ok to build a car port for a car, but to build one just to charge a battery bank which charges your car is not exactly cost effective. It`s a lot cheaper to do that with a small wind turbine and a modified pma alternator like the "Wind blue"

I checked wind turbine prices before. The idea was to feed turbine output into an aux heating element in the hot water heater. No grid connection, no inverters, just current hitting a heating element, with a car battery to buffer voltage surges. But even with that, the break even point was around 30 years, assuming that nothing broke and I did all the work. There's simply not enough wind where I am.

 

[RollingThunder]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

 

[polarbear]

It`s ok to build a car port for a car, but to build one just to charge a battery bank which charges your car is not exactly cost effective. It`s a lot cheaper to do that with a small wind turbine and a modified pma alternator like the "Wind blue"

I checked wind turbine prices before. The idea was to feed turbine output into an aux heating element in the hot water heater. No grid connection, no inverters, just current hitting a heating element, with a car battery to buffer voltage surges. But even with that, the break even point was around 30 years, assuming that nothing broke and I did all the work. There's simply not enough wind where I am.

A power inverter makes the whole set up more flexible. 3000 Watt inverters sell for less than $300 Canadian here and probably less in the US. That allows you to use the power for AC, your fridge...which is important if the grid goes down. The heaters for hot water tanks are either 115 Vac or 220 and I never seen a low Voltage heater that has the fittings to mate with a hot water tank anywhere. You can`t use the other ones unless you series connect all your DC batteries to get the Voltage high enough to get enough current through a standard HWT heating element. The wind turbine is cheap if you make the blades yourself. The modified PMA alternators are around $300 US. To make aerodynamically efficient and very sturdy blades with basic tools is easy.
And if you can weld then it`s no problem to make the hub + the mountings.
If you want 8 foot blades buy some high quality 2 X 4 (Spruce) lumber.
Lay it down on it`s edge and drill a hole for a 1/4 inch ready rod bolt.
Set the rip fence on your table saw to 5 mm and rip the 2 X 4 into strips.
Stack the strips and align them with the bolt then fan the stack like you fan a deck of cards using poly ester or epoxy to bind the laminate. Use a gauge at the blade tip to set exactly the same step width for each strip.
The whole thing will look like an 8 foot spiral staircase segment which is exactly what you want, the pitch changes in proportion with the radius.
All that`s left to do is smoothen the surface to get rid of the steps.
You can either fiberglass coat it and then sand it or sand the wood till the steps are gone and then coat it with polyester of epoxy.
When it`s fully cured you can trim and shape the blade tips as you want them to be.
After you have all the blades mounted suspend the prop and balance it. I drilled holes and used lead buck shot to balance the assembly. There were no vibrations even at high wind speeds and no blade failures because that laminate is very strong, stronger than the props they sell for home use.
With the WindBlue PMA alternator you get the best results if your pitch at the prop tips is 25 deg and you gear it at a 3 to 1 ratio with a chain drive (less drag than gears). That way you get up to charging voltage at wind speeds as low as 5 kmh
To furl the turbine at excessive wind speeds I used a rudder on the tail boom which was connected to a weighted elevator fin that was raised with the increasing wind speed and that turned the rudder accordingly to yaw the boom. My turbine survived wind speeds ~ 100 kmh which is not uncommon in the open Manitoba Prairie where I was then.

 

[skookerasbil]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........and we know that already from seeing posts in here from the alarmist contingent. Notice how few of the 20,000+ USMB members ever dabble in here on the side of the alarmists ( the regulars in here who number 3-4 btw )......because nobody likes to looks stoopid on a public forum. Social oddballs don't care of course because they have screws loose.


The gap between renewable energy promises and reality
Bill Schweber -September 12, 2016

".........looking simply at the potential of solar energy, which is easiest to quantify. According to NASA data, "the average intensity of solar energy reaching the top of the atmosphere directly facing the Sun is about 1,360 watts per square meter. Averaged over the entire planet [including night], the amount of sunlight arriving at the top of Earth’s atmosphere is only one-fourth of the total solar irradiance, or approximately 340 watts per square meter." Further, there is loss of about 25% from the top of the atmosphere down to the surface due to clouds, pollution, and other factors—and there's no way that improved efficiency on the surface will change that."

The gap between renewable energy promises and reality



F'ing duh.........

The science bozo's have about as much common sense of a handball. Even if we could control the climate we cant control the climate........which most ( ie: majority ) people understand very well AND which is also illustrated in many, many polls.................like THIS one from Pew in 2016 >>>


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/12/05/many-americans-are-skeptical-about-scientific-research-on-climate-and-gm-foods/



lol........more than 2/3rds of Americans think the climates scientists don't know shit about shit!!

 

[RollingThunder]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........

Anyone who moronically imagines that human activities are not profoundly affecting the Earth's climate has all of their screws loose.

 

[Wyatt earp]

LOL Once again, trying to ignore an up and coming technology and a real paradigm shift in the generation of energy. You obviously never looked at the short video, nor considered the ramifications of a cheap high density battery.

Which we have been promised for decades. Many decades.

"Electric vehicles first appeared in the mid-19th century. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900. The high cost, low top speed, and short range of battery electric vehicles, compared to later internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide decline in their use; although electric vehicles have continued to be used in the form of electric trains and other niche uses."
History of the electric vehicle - Wikipedia

In over ONE HUNDRED YEARS nothing much has changed.

Yes we have been promised for years, but I do admit some great progress like in the OP, has been happening lately with battery's..

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........

Anyone who moronically imagines that human activities are not profoundly affecting the Earth's climate has all of their screws loose.

Any one who thinks just a 120 years or so of manipulated data intentional or not shows a trend is off their rocker...

 

[80zephyr]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

So what is my denial, exactly? Most electricity(65%) is produced from fossil fuels. Using coal or natural gas to produce the electricity to power an electric car helps us how, exactly?

Your link says nothing about how an electric car stacks up against a gas powered car.

My statement stands. Sorry.

Mark

 

[westwall]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........

Anyone who moronically imagines that human activities are not profoundly affecting the Earth's climate has all of their screws loose.

If only there were empirical evidence to show it. Wow. What a concept. "Belief" vs fact. Religion vs science. Your post shows the religious nature of climate alarmism better than anything I could have ever posted. Thank you.

 

[Old Rocks]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

So what is my denial, exactly? Most electricity(65%) is produced from fossil fuels. Using coal or natural gas to produce the electricity to power an electric car helps us how, exactly?

Your link says nothing about how an electric car stacks up against a gas powered car.

My statement stands. Sorry.

Mark

Really?

All-Electric Vehicles

• Energy efficient. EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.*

 

[Old Rocks]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........

Anyone who moronically imagines that human activities are not profoundly affecting the Earth's climate has all of their screws loose.

If only there were empirical evidence to show it. Wow. What a concept. "Belief" vs fact. Religion vs science. Your post shows the religious nature of climate alarmism better than anything I could have ever posted. Thank you.

Oh my, here we go again, flap yap ignoramus using the words 'empirical evidence' as if the fool actually knows what that means.

The alpine glacial retreat worldwide is well recorded.

USGS Glacier Studies: Regional Effects

Sperry Glacier extent in 1913

Sperry Glacier extent in 2008

Retreat of Glaciers in Glacier National Park

In Glacier National Park (GNP) some effects of climate change are strikingly clear. Glacier recession is underway, and many glaciers have already disappeared. The retreat of these small alpine glaciers reflects changes in recent climate as glaciers respond to altered temperature and precipitation. It has been estimated that there were approximately 150 glaciers present in 1850, around the end of the Little Ice Age. Most glaciers were still present in 1910 when the park was established. In 2010, measurements of glacier area indicate that there were 25 remaining glaciers larger than 25 acres. There is evidence of worldwide glacial glacier recession (1,2) and varied model projections suggest that certain studied GNP glaciers will disappear between 2030 (3) to 2080 (4). USGS scientists in Glacier National Park are incorporating standardized methods and emerging technologies to understand glacier-climate interactions to advance the understanding of alpine glaciers and to provide a scientific foundation for land managers.

Citations: (1) Oerlemans, 1994, Science | (2) Roe et al., 2016, Nature Geoscience | (3) Hall and Fagre, 2003, Bioscience | (4) Brown et al., 2010, Global and Plan

Global glacier retreat

 

[westwall]

Anybody who thinks we can control the climate has got a screw loose.........

Anyone who moronically imagines that human activities are not profoundly affecting the Earth's climate has all of their screws loose.

If only there were empirical evidence to show it. Wow. What a concept. "Belief" vs fact. Religion vs science. Your post shows the religious nature of climate alarmism better than anything I could have ever posted. Thank you.

Oh my, here we go again, flap yap ignoramus using the words 'empirical evidence' as if the fool actually knows what that means.

The alpine glacial retreat worldwide is well recorded.

USGS Glacier Studies: Regional Effects

Sperry Glacier extent in 1913

Sperry Glacier extent in 2008

Retreat of Glaciers in Glacier National Park

In Glacier National Park (GNP) some effects of climate change are strikingly clear. Glacier recession is underway, and many glaciers have already disappeared. The retreat of these small alpine glaciers reflects changes in recent climate as glaciers respond to altered temperature and precipitation. It has been estimated that there were approximately 150 glaciers present in 1850, around the end of the Little Ice Age. Most glaciers were still present in 1910 when the park was established. In 2010, measurements of glacier area indicate that there were 25 remaining glaciers larger than 25 acres. There is evidence of worldwide glacial glacier recession (1,2) and varied model projections suggest that certain studied GNP glaciers will disappear between 2030 (3) to 2080 (4). USGS scientists in Glacier National Park are incorporating standardized methods and emerging technologies to understand glacier-climate interactions to advance the understanding of alpine glaciers and to provide a scientific foundation for land managers.

Citations: (1) Oerlemans, 1994, Science | (2) Roe et al., 2016, Nature Geoscience | (3) Hall and Fagre, 2003, Bioscience | (4) Brown et al., 2010, Global and Plan

Global glacier retreat

Indeed it is. Even your dear wiki knows that the vast majority of the melting occurred before man could have ever had an influence on the retreat. But that's a fact and we all know you religious nut jobs don't do facts.

 

[bripat9643]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

So what is my denial, exactly? Most electricity(65%) is produced from fossil fuels. Using coal or natural gas to produce the electricity to power an electric car helps us how, exactly?

Your link says nothing about how an electric car stacks up against a gas powered car.

My statement stands. Sorry.

Mark

Really?

All-Electric Vehicles

• Energy efficient. EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.*

You're ignoring the part where only 40% of the energy in coal or natural gas is converted into electricity at the power plant. Then there are transmissions losses. Then charging losses.

 

[Old Rocks]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

So what is my denial, exactly? Most electricity(65%) is produced from fossil fuels. Using coal or natural gas to produce the electricity to power an electric car helps us how, exactly?

Your link says nothing about how an electric car stacks up against a gas powered car.

My statement stands. Sorry.

Mark

Really?

All-Electric Vehicles

• Energy efficient. EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.*

You're ignoring the part where only 40% of the energy in coal or natural gas is converted into electricity at the power plant. Then there are transmissions losses. Then charging losses.

LOL Not ignoring that at all. That is why solar on rooftops, manufacturing, commercial, and residential would be such a win. No transmission losses, because you are generating the energy in the city where you need it. Add grid scale batteries to that, and you have a real win-win situation.

 

[bripat9643]

If we could convert every car in America to electric today, what would be the effect on our CO2 output?

A reduction of 6.4%

There is no magic bullet. Probably never will be.

I love how you denier cult dingbats toss out bullshit lies without any supporting evidence and expect everybody to just believe you. I know you are used to getting away with that kind of dumbshitery 'cause it works fine when you talk to the gullible rightwingnuts at your little denier cult get-togethers, but it doesn't work so well with normal people who, unlike you fools, have far above room temperatures IQs.

In the real world....

Car Emissions & Global Warming
Transportation is one of the largest sources of US global warming emissions.
UCS
Our personal vehicles are a major cause of global warming. Collectively, cars and trucks account for nearly one-fifth of all US emissions, emitting around 24 pounds of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases for every gallon of gas. About five pounds comes from the extraction, production, and delivery of the fuel, while the great bulk of heat-trapping emissions—more than 19 pounds per gallon—comes right out of a car’s tailpipe.

In total, the US transportation sector—which includes cars, trucks, planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces nearly thirty percent of all US global warming emissions, more than almost any other sector.
***

Overview of Greenhouse Gases and Sources of Emissions.
Key findings from the 1990–2014 U.S. Inventory include:
In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents.
U.S. emissions increased by 1 percent from 2013 to 2014.
- Feb 23, 2017
(U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report: 1990-2014)

So what is my denial, exactly? Most electricity(65%) is produced from fossil fuels. Using coal or natural gas to produce the electricity to power an electric car helps us how, exactly?

Your link says nothing about how an electric car stacks up against a gas powered car.

My statement stands. Sorry.

Mark

Really?

All-Electric Vehicles

• Energy efficient. EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.*

You're ignoring the part where only 40% of the energy in coal or natural gas is converted into electricity at the power plant. Then there are transmissions losses. Then charging losses.

LOL Not ignoring that at all. That is why solar on rooftops, manufacturing, commercial, and residential would be such a win. No transmission losses, because you are generating the energy in the city where you need it. Add grid scale batteries to that, and you have a real win-win situation.

ROFL! What happens when it snows for 3 days? You freeze to death?