A New Trend: Kindergartners Not Potty-Trained

[OldLady]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

I would be careful with that. If you have a 5, 6, 7 year old in pull ups then you have something else going on. It is not uncommon for kids to regress. Schools seldom have the full picture.

I wonder then why it seems to be an epidemic that we have only seen recently. I had never, ever heard of this in my 25 years of teaching before, say, the last 5 years.

In 1961, when I was in first grade, one of my classmates wet himself several times. He wasn't "special." He just had accidents sometimes. His mom sent him extra pants to change into.

The reason for these normal children at the edge of the developmental spectrum when it comes to potty training is that they get so engrossed in what is going on that they don't notice in time that their bladder is full or that their bowels are rumbling. It embarrasses them as much as it annoys the teacher. They DO grow out of it.

I knew when I first read your OP that you would blame this on the dissolution of society. That's bosh. Do you really think there is a parent in this country that wouldn't LOVE to see their 4 or 5 year old potty trained? REALLY, Sue?

Maybe you're just hearing about this because it wasn't talked about before. Now it is some big deal that ultra conservatives will rush to exploit in order to show that LIBERALS don't potty train their children.

This is disgusting.

Do we know conclusively that all the parents with children having this issue are liberals? How do we know this?

You might ask Billy Kinetta. He seems to be on that track, as I predicted.

 

[Moonglow]

A child at five will have accidents in their pants, hey, they are just little kids, they don't grow a cognitive self until after 6. Sending them to school in protective underpants is a good thing so asshole kids from asshole parents don't make a scene of the situation..

 

[SweetSue92]

You can't buy that it's happening?

It's happening even in the UK:

Infant school recruits nappy changer because so many kids aren't toilet trained

And in Spokane WA:

Students who aren’t potty trained an issue for kindergarten teachers

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

Guilty as charged.

I think teachers are too quick to want to find solutions--we have all run into social workers and psychologists who tell us if we would just UNDERSTAND where the problem is coming from it would all be fine. Still not fine, still difficult if not impossible to deal with......etc.

IOW we need to listen to each other better. That's a universal "you"

 

[Coyote]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

 

[SweetSue92]

A child at five will have accidents in their pants, hey, they are just little kids, they don't grow a cognitive self until after 6. Sending them to school in protective underpants is a good thing so asshole kids from asshole parents don't make a scene of the situation..

I hope I don't have to type this every page but something tells me I will:

ACCIDENTS: a potty-trained child who can't hold it, waits too long, whatever. VERY COMMON. No teacher of young children cares about this...or no good teacher does. Happens routinely at school. We know it will happen and we prepare for it.

NOT POTTY TRAINED: A child who cannot or does not use the bathroom on a REGULAR basis and therefore must come to school diapered.

See if you can spot the difference.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

No one is "making stuff political". Those of certain political beliefs are widely identified as accepting of certain behaviors.

Stereotype? Perhaps, but stereotypes all have their basis in fact, else they would not exist.

 

[Coyote]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

No one is "making stuff political". Those of certain political beliefs are widely identified as accepting of certain behaviors.

Stereotype? Perhaps, but stereotypes all have their basis in fact, else they would not exist.

Then provide actual evidence thst these issues with toilet training are caused by progressive ideology. You claiming is like if I were to claim that because conservatives are stricter with their children they are more likely to abuse them. Stereotype? Basis in fact?

 

[SweetSue92]

As it was explained to me, potty training children is harmful to their self esteem. Telling them that a behavior is wrong should never be done. The children will get the idea naturally.

We do not do our children any favors by implying to them that the rules of the social contract have somehow been rewritten just for them. They haven't. They really have not, at least not to a great extent.

The world will not conform to you. You must learn to play by its rules.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

No one is "making stuff political". Those of certain political beliefs are widely identified as accepting of certain behaviors.

Stereotype? Perhaps, but stereotypes all have their basis in fact, else they would not exist.

Then provide actual evidence thst these issues with toilet training are caused by progressive ideology.

I never said these issues are caused by progressive ideology. Go back and review.

 

[Coyote]

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

No one is "making stuff political". Those of certain political beliefs are widely identified as accepting of certain behaviors.

Stereotype? Perhaps, but stereotypes all have their basis in fact, else they would not exist.

Then provide actual evidence thst these issues with toilet training are caused by progressive ideology.

I never said these issues are caused by progressive ideology. Go back and review.

you certsinly implied it.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.

When it comes to toileting parents of all political sides have no desire to ckean soiled diapers. Early potty training is a point of pride. Breast feeding crap at age 8? That is very fringe and the one person I knew who did that beyond weaning age was pretty conservstive, cultish and a dingbat.

It gets old constantly trying to make stuff political when it really isnt.

No one is "making stuff political". Those of certain political beliefs are widely identified as accepting of certain behaviors.

Stereotype? Perhaps, but stereotypes all have their basis in fact, else they would not exist.

Then provide actual evidence thst these issues with toilet training are caused by progressive ideology.

I never said these issues are caused by progressive ideology. Go back and review.

you certsinly implied it.

Not even that.

 

[Third Party]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Forget it. Some kid will hold his nose and point to another saying "You stink!". Good for the self image.

 

[Disir]

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

Guilty as charged.

I think teachers are too quick to want to find solutions--we have all run into social workers and psychologists who tell us if we would just UNDERSTAND where the problem is coming from it would all be fine. Still not fine, still difficult if not impossible to deal with......etc.

IOW we need to listen to each other better. That's a universal "you"

I would think it is almost impossible to deal with especially if that wasn't mentioned in the job description.
Understanding isn't even half the battle, it just signals a direction. It's not immediately taken care of and it might get worse before it gets better. It's really hard for people that would have never put themselves in a certain set of circumstances to begin with to wrap their brains around it. And would you really want to?

Most kids are not going to walk up in the classroom and say something like "my dad is beating the hell out of my mom and that's my normal", "my mom is beating the hell out of me", " my uncle is molesting me", "my mom is schizophrenic" or "there are gunshots every day and I saw a man die on the street and there are bullet holes in the windows from last week". They might do that when they are bit older. Many might not even remember the details but watched it at age 2.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

What is wrong with parents today?

I loved disposables, but if they had never been invented, this would not be happening.

You blame the diapers for parental negligence? Walk me through that.

Disposables. Before disposables one had to clean cloth diapers in the toilet. It was not a fun thing to do at all. Then they had to be washed, whether by hand or washing machine. A parent would want to get them potty trained as soon as they could. With the advent of disposables, parents no longer had to deal with that.

Disposable diapers have been in use since the 1960's.

They were not widely used then. My kids, born in the ‘80’s, I used disposables, but when they wet in them, they still would feel the wetness, and some would even leak around the edges. Today’s disposables, when you go to change a wet diaper, there is no wetness against the skin at all. They have improved immensely.

But they were still used. Even if we consider the 1990's this was not a trend then either. That of school children wearing diapers and shitting their pants. This is the fault of the parents...not the diaper. What an absurd consideration.

 

[Beyond]

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

It sounds more like you want to find other reasons for a parents negligence, than just that. We are not talking about the exceptions here.

I want to target it. There is no shortage of negligent parents. I'm looking for an underlying cause using the process of elimination.

Poor parenting skills
Over indulgence
Insuffucient time with the child, so unable to provide consistant training

Any or all of the abave for those sending the children to childcare.

 

[Beyond]

As it was explained to me, potty training children is harmful to their self esteem. Telling them that a behavior is wrong should never be done. The children will get the idea naturally.

That'e the nonsense causing the problem in ALL the cases I've seen of late potty training. If children didn't need to be taught by their parents it wouldn't take them so many years to become adults.

I've never come across a mentally/physically normative baby that doesn't squirm at a wet or dirty nappy. Those who tolerate a dirty nappy have LEARNED to do so.

The youngest potty training I've seen started at around 4 weeks old and caused no esteem issues. The mother learned a) Her childs toileting routine b) When the child was about to go and simply placed them on the pot, with both in her lap for the process. A dirty nappy was an extremely rare event in that household.

That child never learned to sit in a dirty or wet nappy, and learned to signal the need to go, long before she could speak. She was dry and clean in the day by the time she was a year old, they were only used when traveling on a just-in-case basis. Zero negative esteem issues around it and there were no "you're wrong" moments other than this little baby berating Mommy with cross gurgles if Mommy didn't notice the signals soon enough.

Both Mother and child benefitted from this early training. There's no reason for a physically & mentally fit child to be in a diapers once they learn to speak.

In broader terms this nonsense of never telling a child a behavior is wrong, has produced the snowflakes who have an emotional crisis if anyone says "no" to them. The other extreme is just as bad, but there is a middle/healthy healthy ground to letting a child know if their actions are a problem.

 

[skye]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

It all comes naturally.....they are preparing and teaching the stinky ones to be released in these Demrats areas.....


May be the DemonRats like it like that...... the stinkier and more disgusting the better...

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Sometimes there is no medical reason and then it is reverting back to the difference between not wanting to stop playing or not even being aware. The parents may not even know which direction to go or they may not have access to resources.

So, then we need to start looking at environments. Start from the outside in. What does the neighborhood look like? What is the level of violence in the neighborhood? Who are the primary caretakers? What is the family structure? What is the socioeconomic status? How many siblings?

I don't disagree with any of this, but again, I worked in some very disadvantaged districts in the past and never heard of students coming to school in pull-ups or routinely having accidents (that aren't really accidents). So it's not THAT it happens--odd things happen. It's that it's happening to apparently many kinder teachers around the nation.

And I can't buy that with zero information on the parents, the kids etc.

You can't buy that it's happening?

It's happening even in the UK:

Infant school recruits nappy changer because so many kids aren't toilet trained

And in Spokane WA:

Students who aren’t potty trained an issue for kindergarten teachers

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

Are you allowed to refuse to change a kid's diaper? Because a 5 year old should not even be in a diaper? Can't you send them off to the nurse's office and then deal with it as a medical issues.

I'm sorry but I probably couldn't be a teacher because changing diapers for school aged children isn't part of what I see teaching entailing.

 

[SweetSue92]

There have always been a few that might have an accident. It happens, but to be wearing diapers/pull-ups, tells me they are not doing their due diligence, unless there is a medical reason.

Sometimes there is no medical reason and then it is reverting back to the difference between not wanting to stop playing or not even being aware. The parents may not even know which direction to go or they may not have access to resources.

So, then we need to start looking at environments. Start from the outside in. What does the neighborhood look like? What is the level of violence in the neighborhood? Who are the primary caretakers? What is the family structure? What is the socioeconomic status? How many siblings?

Access to resources? I don’t follow.
And blaming it on a neighborhood, socioeconomic status is a scapegoat. I would imagine there are those of all socioeconomic statuses that also take the easier route, just because it is easier.

There is nothing EASIER about having a kid soiling himself at 5 years old!

So, you believe this trend of more and more not being trained has to do with what?

TBH, I do not believe it. OP would like me to believe that there are a growing number of parents out there who are happy to change their five year old's shitty diapers because they are too lazy to potty train them.
Nope. Never happened.
When I assessed child safety, if I saw a child that old who was not potty trained, I would ask what was going on and make sure the parent was on top of the problem. Actually, I only ran into it once with a school aged child, and she was so horribly neglected and abused that we took her into custody the day I met her. Wetting the bed, sure. But an otherwise normal kid? Even the most neglectful drug addicts don't want to deal with diapers, folks. At least that has been my experience.

OP routinely bitches about special needs students in regular classrooms and while I don't really blame her for blowing off steam, I think this is more of the same.

I won the top award given in my huge district for serving special needs students Old Lady, so you can take whatever got into your cheerios yesterday, roll it, light it, and smoke it right on up.

Because I serve all the students in the building, I see the needs of ALL the students. And you best believe when classrooms are routinely being evacuated because someone loses their crap AGAIN, the entire thing is out of whack.

You don't like that I say that, that hurts your delicate sensibilities, I don't care. But you remember, in five years, when the pendulum swings back again so much that we're all talking about it, that Sue was ahead of that curve.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't disagree with any of this, but again, I worked in some very disadvantaged districts in the past and never heard of students coming to school in pull-ups or routinely having accidents (that aren't really accidents). So it's not THAT it happens--odd things happen. It's that it's happening to apparently many kinder teachers around the nation.

And I can't buy that with zero information on the parents, the kids etc.

You can't buy that it's happening?

It's happening even in the UK:

Infant school recruits nappy changer because so many kids aren't toilet trained

And in Spokane WA:

Students who aren’t potty trained an issue for kindergarten teachers

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

Are you allowed to refuse to change a kid's diaper? Because a 5 year old should not even be in a diaper? Can't you send them off to the nurse's office and then deal with it as a medical issues.

I'm sorry but I probably couldn't be a teacher because changing diapers for school aged children isn't part of what I see teaching entailing.

Someone has to do it. Public schools must admit everyone--if they're of age and living in the district, they must be allowed in. So if they're in diapers, someone must change those diapers. The one article I linked stated the district had been through many paraprofessionals who really did not want to change the diapers of six year olds.

Many, many districts no longer employ full time school nurses. We'd be lucky to ever see one here a few years ago, but with all these medical issues popping up now, we do have one in the building more often now.