A minimum of $27 an hour is the wage needed in America for a modest one bedroom apartment.

So what do you propose they do? Sounds like you’re hinting that successful people, who made sacrifices to get career training and/or start a small business give money to kids who feel they’re too above it all to deign to share an apartment.

And no idea what your smack against my Jewish values was all about. There is nothing contrary to Jewish values in expecting able-bodied young adults to share an apartment or rooms in a house if that is what they can afford. My father was a religious Jew and found nothing wrong with renting a room in a basement until he could afford better. Neither did his parents, who were very old-fashioned religious Jews.

Expectimg handouts is NOT a Jewish value. What IS a Jewish value is helping people support themselves, and that is why I am glad we have Pell Grants for lower-income people - so they can learn a trade, or work toward a degree, and be able to earn more than minimum wage.
This is what is upsetting. Because you’re either ignoring the point or not caring about it. And I don’t support free handouts. I believe I’ve already said that so you don’t need to worry about repeating that point.

Here is the point with respect for the third time. The average 25 year-old in the USA makes half of what they did 40 years ago. Which was perhaps your era and the era of many of the older posters here.

What don’t you understand about that point.?

I mean the point is Crystal clear it is harder to make money today compared to your era. It’s an irrefutable fact discussed by Professor Scott Galloway. It’s the raw data.

And the solution to the issues is to have better leadership.

1 Stop printing trillions of dollars… do something about the national debt

2 Stop bringing in millions of illegals jacking up the housing costs and lowering the wages.

Jewish values is a critical thing because you have always said you are Jewish…. and I try and believe in Catholic values as a Catholic. I’m not perfect but these are things that guide me and you constantly talk about your Jewish values so that’s why I brought it up. Nothing negative is meant… But there’s a disconnect going on this conversation as you keep going back to points that don’t relate to the conversation like perceived laziness among the youth, sharing apartments, or the false assumption that I believe in handouts for people.
 
Houses only cost 40k and there was no cable internet cell phones

And yes, most Americans vould afford 2 cars, a boat etc..
This^

In my dadā€˜s day and age it was a lot easier to get into the middle class. Most families like I you said had two cars. They had 2 to 4 kids. They could afford a two or three week vacation per year. They could send their kids to college. The home prices were astronomically lower compared to what it is.

And in response to this people keep throwing up things like the perception of laziness among the youth, the idea of sharing apartments, talking about their wages 40 years ago and how they got to and from work, etc. But they cannot understand or respond to the irrefutable fact that the average 25-year-old today in America makes half of what they did 40 years ago. the nation is more in debt than it has ever been. We’re bringing in more illegals than we ever have therefore jacking up the costs and lowering wages.
 
Even back in the day when the mortgage rate was 10 to 18% the middle-class jobs were easier to be found People talk about the 1980s when the mortgage rate was as high as 17 or 18%. OK well according to the raw data the average 25-year-old made twice as much in those days compared to what they do today. There you go what more has to be said.


Ok the jobs are not what they used to be. There’s tons of young people who have a great work ethic, but they are living in a country where there are millions and millions of illegals that continuously are brought in, which is therefore jacking up the cost of living and lowering wages. Not to mention radical left-wing culture infiltrating our economy.

Also, the cost of a higher education is astronomically higher today compared to previous decades of American history. Especially the 1980s.
 
So what do you propose they do? Sounds like you’re hinting that successful people, who made sacrifices to get career training and/or start a small business give money to kids who feel they’re too above it all to deign to share an apartment.

And no idea what your smack against my Jewish values was all about. There is nothing contrary to Jewish values in expecting able-bodied young adults to share an apartment or rooms in a house if that is what they can afford. My father was a religious Jew and found nothing wrong with renting a room in a basement until he could afford better. Neither did his parents, who were very old-fashioned religious Jews.

Expectimg handouts is NOT a Jewish value. What IS a Jewish value is helping people support themselves, and that is why I am glad we have Pell Grants for lower-income people - so they can learn a trade, or work toward a degree, and be able to earn more than minimum wage.
Another thing to look for young Americans at is Hustler University created by Andrew Tate. It cost like 50 bucks a month , better than paying $30,000 a year for a college education that might not end up helping at all.
 
And the average house was 1100 square feet, with one bathroom. And most people did NOT have two cars. They had carpools to work, or took public transport. And I knew nobody who had a boat!

The problem is expectations for what a decent life is have expanded so much that the way people used to live is now viewed as downtrodden.
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Photo I took of some homes in Lackawana. It’s from a working class area. Those homes are from as old as the 1940s. Renovated a little bit but their core base is still there. And they’re bigger than 1100 feet. They were by Bethlehem Steel, which employed at one time 20,000 people but has since long ceased operations.

Those homes were very very affordable in the 1950s. And they were beautiful look at them …even today they look wonderful. They were not some shit hole housing. They were a sign of what America was in it’s best era.

That was in the area of American greatness. The 1950s when we had steel and Auto jobs by the millions. People could get them right out of high school. We haven’t had those jobs for decades. And that’s another thing we need politicians to bring back the middle-class jobs. The CEO class is not what it used to be. We need to bring forth people like Carnegie, Rockefeller and Henry Ford.
 
The average 25 year-old in the USA makes half of what they did 40 years ago.
Again, where do you get that statistic from?

REAL MEDIAN INCOME is the metric generally used for historic income growth comparisons and it shows nothing of the sort.

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I agree. Rare, but yeah. Most folks don't realize that all you have to do is walk into the college, say you want to be a student, and they'll take care of the rest.

The average cost of college tuition in the U.S. for undergraduate students has more than tripled, multiplying by 3.08 times over the last 58 years, according to data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES). It rose from $4,648 in 1963 to $14,307 in 2021. That's accounting for inflation
 
Even back in the day when the mortgage rate was 10 to 18% the middle-class jobs were easier to be found People talk about the 1980s when the mortgage rate was as high as 17 or 18%. OK well according to the raw data the average 25-year-old made twice as much in those days compared to what they do today. There you go what more has to be said.


Ok the jobs are not what they used to be. There’s tons of young people who have a great work ethic, but they are living in a country where there are millions and millions of illegals that continuously are brought in, which is therefore jacking up the cost of living and lowering wages. Not to mention radical left-wing culture infiltrating our economy.

Also, the cost of a higher education is astronomically higher today compared to previous decades of American history. Especially the 1980s.
Home loans were 15 years back in the 80's. Government policy to guarantee loans of 30 years against default resulted in the dramatic rise in home prices
 
Who the hell is Diane Yentel? has she been elected to anything? Her opinion is just as good as anyone else.
 
they cannot understand or respond to the irrefutable fact that the average 25-year-old today in America makes half of what they did 40 years ago.

Refuted just fine by your inability to support your assertions.
 
Who the hell is Diane Yentel? has she been elected to anything? Her opinion is just as good as anyone else.
Her organization has taken an in-depth look at the raw data surrounding the price of homes and the wages of the working class in America. She is an excellent source for this matter.

frankly, it’s a breath or fresh air to hear a discussion like this. Rather than how we are constantly bombarded about nonsense about race, white privilege, gender, foreign wars that have no effect on America.


The cost of living is the single most important topic in America right now. That’s according to a pew survey by the way. And if we can’t help out our self, we can’t help out other countries in the best manner
 
So if you have a room mate in a two bedroom apartment, you need $16 per hour?
Obviously the requirements would be significantly less if two people were paying equal costs for the apartment. But there’s a few issues here. One this kind of sounds like communism sharing an apartment what’s next? Let’s just have four people share one apartment that is literally what occurred in the Soviet union massive amounts of families were in tiny buildings.

Two loneliness and depression are high for young people in America. They might not even have close friends to share an apartment with let alone a significant other.

I thing The idea of a couple sharing an apartment sounds pretty good, but we have a record number of young people who are single and using a bunch of drugs so that’s an issue with there as well. Btw traditional masculinity opposes this and demands that the man take care of all of the costs, even at a young age… that kind of situation built America gave us the strongest military and middle class economy in world history.

Bottom line prices are astronomical today compared to under Trump. I often wonder in this conversation when I’m talking with Trump supporters it sounds like I’m actually talking with anti-Trump people… because its Donald Trump himself who is bringing up the high costs in this country today where as during his administration the costs were much lower.
 
Bottom line prices are astronomical today compared to under Trump. I often wonder in this conversation when I’m talking with Trump supporters it sounds like I’m actually talking with anti-Trump people… because its Donald Trump himself who is bringing up the high costs in this country today where as during his administration the costs were much lower.

We also don't have a historic recession like we did under Trump, you miss that too or did it get completely compermentalized away in your head?
 
Obviously the requirements would be significantly less if two people were paying equal costs for the apartment. But there’s a few issues here. One this kind of sounds like communism sharing an apartment what’s next?

Two people sharing an apartment is friends and/or family. Something that communism always tries to weaken. Communist nations prefer multiple families crowded in apartments as we often have with illegal aliens here.
Let’s just have four people share one apartment that is literally what occurred in the Soviet union massive amounts of families were in tiny buildings.
Exactly. Because government told people where to live instead of a free market for real estate. Multiple families wouldn't choose to live together unless they were escaping an even worse situation.
Two loneliness and depression are high for young people in America. They might not even have close friends to share an apartment with let alone a significant other.
Then let us remember in November that the Democrats and their operatives spend the majority of 2020 dreaming up and enforcing rules designed to keep us isolated from each other - outdoing even their Soviet role models in that respect.
I thing The idea of a couple sharing an apartment sounds pretty good, but we have a record number of young people who are single and using a bunch of drugs so that’s an issue with there as well. Btw traditional masculinity opposes this and demands that the man take care of all of the costs, even at a young age… that kind of situation built America gave us the strongest military and middle class economy in world history.
The feminist movement was hugely successful in stamping out "traditional masculinity." Today's young males are scarcely recognizable as the same demographic as the young men with whom I grew up.

One point I wanted you to pick up on from my one-sentence post is that we have long been a two-income economy. Feminists insisted women go to work and not be "just a housewife." Employers loved it. Women in the office and behind cash registers worked almost as cheaply as illegal aliens and they smelled nicer. Prices simply went up in response to the greater number of dollars an extra breadwinner brought in, so there was no rise in standard of living.

In fact, a man working a semi-skilled job could afford a house for his stay-at-home wife and children in the fifties. Try that today.

It's terrible, but there is not much we can do to change it. We can cry about it or adapt and overcome.

This is how government worshippers alway do you. They make it very difficult for an individual to succeed on their own, and then ridicule the idea of pair bonding and family teamwork that gives people a chance in the economy they themselves created.

It is much easier to understand Democrats when you realize that the failure of individuals is not a side effect of their policies, it is the goal of them.
Bottom line prices are astronomical today compared to under Trump. I often wonder in this conversation when I’m talking with Trump supporters it sounds like I’m actually talking with anti-Trump people… because its Donald Trump himself who is bringing up the high costs in this country today where as during his administration the costs were much lower.
I'm not sure what you're hearing from Trump supporters. Every Trump supporter I know complains about the Harris-Biden inflationary policies.

Let me ask you this, since I'm not sure where you are coming from: If a young person wants to live in an apartment all their own, do I as a taxpayer and/or consumer somehow owe them that at the cost of my own financial goals?
 
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That number goes up to over $32 an hour being necessary as a wage for a two bedroom apartment. Now a lot of new families in America that are starting to have children cannot afford to buy a house. It’s out of the realm of possibility because of the price of homes and 3x mortgage rates under Biden compared to Trump. So if they can afford to they are left with renting. Others have to live with their parents or in laws.


As I’ve said many times this is the greatest issue in this country. The general cost-of-living including food, housing, clothing, automobiles, etc. Especially for the America first people they know this I think they accept it, but the Democrats seem to be either unaware of it or they don’t care about it. They are busy calling Trump a white supremacist or a sexist. Saying we need to ā€œsave democracyā€ by voting for Harris without knowing her policies. Or The foreign wars which have no effect on America and our funding of them.

This issue needs to be front and center for Republicans and Democrats. They can talk about the foreign wars. And other issues, but this certainly is the number one issue. Simply put a weaker America would lead to a weaker world.

Googled our area. $750 was the lowest price I saw for a 1 bedroom. There was a $1500 offering on the river in a new build but it included cable, internet, and utilities. It would take 84 hours work a month to pay for a $1000 a month apartment at minimum wage in my state ($12.00/hour)
 
Googled our area. $750 was the lowest price I saw for a 1 bedroom. There was a $1500 offering on the river in a new build but it included cable, internet, and utilities. It would take 84 hours work a month to pay for a $1000 a month apartment at minimum wage in my state ($12.00/hour)
So who says an unskilled worker, with no vocational training and minimal value, is entitled to rent his own apartment? He can do what people who can’t afford that luxury have done for eons - rent a room in someone’s house, or share a 2-bedroom.

Why is it that 45 years ago (me) or 75 years ago (my dad), it was not only accepted by expected that a new college grad, entering a career after four years of higher education, would not be able to afford an apartment and would have to share - and nowadays people with no education think they’re entitled to their own place?
 
At $27/hr, you get a big tax bite.....Won't be long before the average well paid construction tradesman gets socked with the idiotic AMT.
It's been going on since Reagan tell me another story.
 
So from birth until 17, you took baths only? Or did you have no indoor plumbing at all, and you were just a filthy kid?

Also, I thought you were a guy. Men don’t refer to their fathers as ā€œDaddy,ā€ do they? I can’t even stand when grown women do that!
Only baths.

Daddy is a Texas thing.
 
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