A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So that is what you plan to tell the parents of the dead kids?

That...what? No threat has been made. What guilt does anyone carry? No idea what you are getting at.

Thinking about bombing a school (a writer does this when he writes about it, fact or fiction) and making threats are not the same concept. If someone seriously told me, "i am thinking about bombing a school", that is an explicit threat. Not the same concept.

 

[diver52]

First, we have to get past the reality that no one can know your thoughts unless you express them.

Yet still it is only a thought, even if I write it down and hide it in my drawer and housekeeping finds it. So you have not yet wriggled out of this space of convicting only for for thought crime.

An apostate leaves Islam. Thats how their apostasy is "expressed": they stop believing Islam. Punishing that is convicting thought crime no matter if the apostate tells nobody explicitly or tells 100 people. So, even expressed in this way (letting everyone know), you STILL haven't wriggled out of the space of thought crime, try as you might.

By the way, that thought crime conviction seems to be very practical in some countries. They even write it down. And they punish people for it.

Your label of"impractical" is just a tactic to avoid admitting and making moral judgment, I think. I think we can create a very objective (not to say, all encompassing) standard of morality.

And yes, our culture/system/social contract, whatever, is superior to that. Objectively. Measurably.

If you write down that you plan to bomb a school and leave it where housekeeping finds it, it will hopefully be reported to the police who will promptly arrest you. Good luck explaining to them that the arrest is objectively immoral.

Catholic bishops have threatened politicians with refusing confession for supporting abortion rights. I personally know of one young woman who was tossed out of her church as an apostate. Religions do all kinds of stuff like that. It isn't restricted to Islam, nor is all of Islam like that. Hell, the current republican party considers me a RINO for having the temerity to be an old style conservative and not toeing their PC line. You are applying a broad brush to arrive at the conclusion you want to arrive at.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you write down that you plan to bomb a school and leave it where housekeeping finds it, it will hopefully be reported to the police who will promptly arrest you. Good luck explaining to them that the arrest is objectively immoral.

Again, that's not a thought crime. That is a threat. Not the same concept. You are being convicted of an existential threat, not a thought crime. I can't be any more clear on this, and i know you see the difference.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Religions do all kinds of stuff like that.

And some countries make it a law. It seems pretty "practical" to the guy being put to death or caned, i bet.

And our system is objectively superior to that.

 

[diver52]

If you write down that you plan to bomb a school and leave it where housekeeping finds it, it will hopefully be reported to the police who will promptly arrest you. Good luck explaining to them that the arrest is objectively immoral.

Again, that's not a thought crime. That is a threat. Not the same concept. You are being convicted of an existential threat, not a thought crime. I can't be any more clear on this, and i know you see the difference.

No. I think you are splitting hairs. Basically, this objective morality isn't objective at all. We are just quibbling about where the line is, but that the line exists makes it subjective.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

. I think you are splitting hairs.

Between....a thought (no longer believeing in Allah, for example) and an existential threat to the well being of others? That's what expressing a desire to harm people is. A threat, not only a thought.

You could split that "hair" with a 747.

 

[diver52]

Religions do all kinds of stuff like that.

And some countries make it a law. Sems pretty "practical" to the guy being put to death or caned, i bet.

And our system is objectively superior to that.

Now it is a "system" while before it was a "culture". The two are not the same thing. We put a higher percentage of our citizens in cages than any other nation on the planet. Where does that fact come into play for your measurements?

 

[diver52]

. I think you are splitting hairs.

Between....a thought (no longer believeing in Allah, for example) and an existential threat to the well being of others? Thats what expressing a desire to harm people is. A threat, not only a thought.

You could split that "hair" with a 747.

Wow. That was a big jump. We were talking about the difference between someone thinking there were going to bomb a school and someone thinking they were planning to bomb a school. Let's stay on point.

 

[diver52]

. I think you are splitting hairs.

Between....a thought (no longer believeing in Allah, for example) and an existential threat to the well being of others? Thats what expressing a desire to harm people is. A threat, not only a thought.

You could split that "hair" with a 747.

Wow. That was a big jump. We were talking about the difference between someone thinking there were going to bomb a school and someone thinking they were planning to bomb a school. Let's stay on point.

And I'm calling it a night. Don't want you to think I just walked on you.

 

[Taz]

So you're saying that the bible is bullshit.

No. Why? Would you say the same about all languages and codes you do not understand?

So the bible can't be read as is, it's some sort of magic code. So you agree, the bible is bullshit as written.

 

[Meriweather]

So the bible can't be read as is, it's some sort of magic code. So you agree,

Hmm, No. You can't even read me correctly, so what hope do we have that you can correctly read the Bible?

 

[Taz]

So the bible can't be read as is, it's some sort of magic code. So you agree,

Hmm, No. You can't even read me correctly, so what hope do we have that you can correctly read the Bible?

I read the bible as written, so it's a simple read, really.

 

[Meriweather]

I read the bible as written, so it's a simple read, really.

Can you identify allegory and symbolism?

 

[Taz]

I read the bible as written, so it's a simple read, really.

Can you identify allegory and symbolism?

Otherwise known as moving the goalposts. Meaning that you can give any meaning to any story. I don't see that kind of obfuscation as the word of god.

 

[Meriweather]

Otherwise known as moving the goalposts. Meaning that you can give any meaning to any story. I don't see that kind of obfuscation as the word of god.

Oh, right! Funny, when we teach allegory to middle school students it never crosses our minds to start out by telling them that to write an allegory, one starts by moving the goal posts.

So now we have established that you cannot identify an allegory.

 

[Taz]

Otherwise known as moving the goalposts. Meaning that you can give any meaning to any story. I don't see that kind of obfuscation as the word of god.

Oh, right! Funny, when we teach allegory to middle school students it never crosses our minds to start out by telling them that to write an allegory, one starts by moving the goal posts.

So now we have established that you cannot identify an allegory.

I know what it is, I just don't think that the bible should be read like that, because the printed words become untrue on their face.

 

[RodISHI]

You are too dense to understand that the whole Old Testament is an accounting of the HOSTS of heaven and earth. Hosts= spiritual beings, regulators, things birthed into the spirit to assist a living soul overcome carnal or earthly leanings. "Mountains" are obstacles in your own mind that prevent you from being full/complete/spiritually matured.

Gotcha. I am not to pay attention to that man behind the curtain.

Obviously you aren't as you keep repeating yourself while ignoring what the entire scripture says.

I do not ignore the stories about God's behavior. You are, of course, free to do so.

You are trying to blame God for the choices carnally minded humans make and you are in error.

I'm not. I'm blaming God for God's choices. At least based upon the stories.

Yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are accusing God and apparently refuse to read or accept anything but your own failed precepts.

 

[Meriweather]

I know what it is, I just don't think that the bible should be read like that, because the printed words become untrue on their face.

So you believe that the Bible is untrue, and the proof you offer is that the Bible uses allegory and symbolism?

 

[Taz]

I know what it is, I just don't think that the bible should be read like that, because the printed words become untrue on their face.

So you believe that the Bible is untrue, and the proof you offer is that the Bible uses allegory and symbolism?

Allegory and symbolism mean the stories aren't true as written. So once you get past that, then you can attribute anything you want to the stories. But to then say that somehow these allegories are the word of god sounds ludicrous.

 

[Meriweather]

Allegory and symbolism mean the stories aren't true as written. So once you get past that, then you can attribute anything you want to the stories. But to then say that somehow these allegories are the word of god sounds ludicrous.

Actually, allegories are there to make a specific point, teach a specific lesson. So, no, we cannot attribute anything we want to the stories. Are you aware that God did not write or even dictate the Bible? That the Bible was written by men? That these stories are considered by many to be inspired by God, while written by men and the lens by which men view life here on Earth?