Zone1 A heretic cannot be pope--much less can an apostate

[ding]

who is trying to impugn Catholic teaching? It is I and people like me who UPHOLD true Catholic teaching. Meanwhile, thefake V2 Church keeps teaching error.. and protecting pedophiles.

And I am thankful to MTG for confirming to yours truly and many others that Catholic Charities is corrupt and off-base by helping illegals (to be illegals, to crash our border in violation of our laws). If bidim or anyone else doesn't like the laws that say they cannot enter, then he can change the damn laws. But nope.. Liberals just violate it..

See your motivations are political

 

[notmyfault2020]

This is a paragraph from Vatican II.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Do you have a problem with that statement? . Maybe that was something JohnPaul II was alluding to? If not, I still would need to know more about what he did say.
I know he was 'over-ecumenical' in some instances, honoring non-Christian religions, I agree. But to what extent was it intended, that is not clear to me.

doesn't matter whehter it was intended or not, really, bc it was anti-Catholic and anti-Christian (as non Catholics also say that it is Jesus alone who saves). A material heretic is one who does not know that he is believing false beliefs. No one can claim that someone like JP II didn't know the teachings of the CC (check out his history. it's not like he became pope after a long, secular life..).

As Novus Ordo Watch says and all logical people concur: There is no way JP II and the other recent fake popes did not know what they were doing. They are heretics and therefore NOT popes at all.

(Actually, even if he [they] were only material and not formal heretics.. still about the same deal.. If that is so-- but again, who can believe such nonsense-- then they had all their lives to repent, find and teach the truth, but apparently did not.)

 

[ding]

well, I don't have time to do everyone's homework. He kissed the Koran.. he had pagans worship in Catholic Churches.. he and other recent popes have had conferences with communists and others.. (while refusing to see members of the CC), even though the Traditional Church, the TRUE Catholic Church has always condemned Communism in no uncertain terms.. etc

There have been zero doctrine changes to the catechism. The media and apparently you read more into his statements because each have political motivations to do so. Diametrically opposite motivations I might add.

 

[notmyfault2020]

See your motivations are political

Truth is truth regardless of your fixation on the word Politics

 

[notmyfault2020]

There have been zero doctrine changes to the catechism. The media and apparently you read more into his statements because each have political motivations to do so. Diametrically opposite motivations I might add.

believe what you want. A lot of people, I have observed throughout life, just believe what they want to believe, what is convenient for them. No wonder Jesus said few make it to Heaven.. you won't make it defying truth every step of the way until the end, that is for sure

 

[ding]

believe what you want. A lot of people, I have observed throughout life, just believe what they want to believe, what is convenient for them. No wonder Jesus said few make it to Heaven.. you won't make it defying truth every step of the way until the end, that is for sure

Doesn’t the same apply to you?

God is spirit. And those that worship him must do so in spirit and truth. I try my best to be objective.

 

[ding]

Truth is truth regardless of your fixation on the word Politics

Do you know how to arrive at objective truth? Have you ever given that any thought?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Doesn’t the same apply to you?

God is spirit. And those that worship him must do so in spirit and truth. I try my best to be objective.

what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

non sequitor

 

[ding]

what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

non sequitor

If my turning your narrative back on you is a non sequitor and off topic then it was a non sequitor and off topic when you did it first.

Right?

The relevance to the topic is subjective truth versus objective truth. I don’t believe you are being objective because you are politically motivated.

So not only are your accusations against the church unfounded in reality as there have been zero changes to church doctrine, they are harmful to the church because they undermine the very foundation of the church.

Now do you understand the relevance?

 

[jehanne1431]

believe what you want. A lot of people, I have observed throughout life, just believe what they want to believe, what is convenient for them. No wonder Jesus said few make it to Heaven.. you won't make it defying truth every step of the way until the end, that is for sure

VATICAN II paragraph 847: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

I asked you if you had a problem with that statement. . Once again, you chose not answer a fairly straightforward question. . Why?

I asked if you would expound on your claim that John Paul II said “all religions save“, when it was said and the greater context. Again, you could not be bothered to address that.

Now in a later comment of yours you state ---- “No wonder Jesus said few make it to Heaven.” . . Oh, is that exactly what he said and meant? . Explain it in even more clearer terms because, again, I have trouble with all of your boldness in claiming such a serious 'truth" or in knocking down popes and heretics like bowling pins with little sign of humility or forgiveness.

Finally, yes, Pope John Paul II did kiss the Koran when surrounded by prelates of many faiths. Yes, it caused scandal and is not the easiest thing to try to explain away. But even so, what John Paul II did for humanity, for evangelizing, for the Catholic Church must also be strongly considered in the equation before you call him a heretic and a false pope. (imo)

 

[notmyfault2020]

VATICAN II paragraph 847: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

I asked you if you had a problem with that statement. . Once again, you chose not answer a fairly straightforward question. . Why?

I asked if you would expound on your claim that John Paul II said “all religions save“, when it was said and the greater context. Again, you could not be bothered to address that.

Now in a later comment of yours you state ---- “No wonder Jesus said few make it to Heaven.” . . Oh, is that exactly what he said and meant? . Explain it in even more clearer terms because, again, I have trouble with all of your boldness in claiming such a serious 'truth" or in knocking down popes and heretics like bowling pins with little sign of humility or forgiveness.

Finally, yes, Pope John Paul II did kiss the Koran when surrounded by prelates of many faiths. Yes, it caused scandal and is not the easiest thing to try to explain away. But even so, what John Paul II did for humanity, for evangelizing, for the Catholic Church must also be strongly considered in the equation before you call him a heretic and a false pope. (imo)

Illogical, Captain

If he was a heretic, and it cannot be denied that he KNEW he was spreading heretical ideas, then he damaged the Church and likely led millions into Hell

You can venerate such a person if you want--the Vatican II heretical sect made him a "saint" (Please)--but I am not going to. The late Bishop Lefebvre was absolutely correct in everything he said about Vatican II.. and guess what?

Unlike yours truly, HE was actually THERE.

(I will answer your questions when you address the things I myself have said)

 

[notmyfault2020]

I don’t believe you are being objective because you are politically motivated.

so because I visit Politics AND Religion on the forum

I am politically motivated in all that I say on Religion

wow.. there's some sound logic 4 ya..

 

[ding]

Illogical, Captain

If he was a heretic, and it cannot be denied that he KNEW he was spreading heretical thoughts, then he damaged the Church and likely led millions into Hell

You can venerate such a person if you want--the Vatican II heretical sect made him a "saint" (Please)--but I am not going to. The late Bishop Lefebvre was absolutely correct in everything he said about Vatican II.. and guess what?

Unlike yours truly, HE was actually THERE.

(I will answer your questions when you address the things I myself have said)

If anyone is being a heretic, it’s you for arguing the Church is invalid.

There have been no changes made to church doctrine. So your accusation is unfounded.

You on the other hand have clearly accused the church - you supposedly belong - to as being invalid. Why would you attend a church you didn’t believe was valid?

 

[ding]

so because I visit Politics AND Religion on the forum

I am politically motivated in all that I say on Religion

wow.. there's some sound logic 4 ya..

No. You are politically motivated because you are making a far right political argument without any foundation whatsoever.

What part of there have been no changes to church doctrine don’t you understand?

 

[Anathema]

Catholicism; what can I say?? It’s no better or worse than every other pathetic waste of time that we call a religion.,

 

[ding]

Catholicism; what can I say?? It’s no better or worse than every other pathetic waste of time that we call a religion.,

Why is it that most atheists who post here are so negative about almost everything.

Go be happy.

 

[notmyfault2020]

No. You are politically motivated because you are making a far right political argument without any foundation whatsoever.

What part of there have been no changes to church doctrine don’t you understand?

It is you who doesn't u/stand

I think "God wills all religions" amounts to Changing doctrine.. no, it is changing DOGMA

That new doctrine contradicts 1960 years of Catholic teaching. You have to choose.. Was the Church correct for 1960 years or was Vatican II? Which one is it?

If your opinion is that V2 is correct

I don't care much for your opinion and find it incredibly, egregiously, abysmally illogical

 

[notmyfault2020]

Catholicism; what can I say?? It’s no better or worse than every other pathetic waste of time that we call a religion.,

says someone who was never Catholic

I've never been to Hawaii and would not ever say that Hawaii sucks.. but that's me

 

[Anathema]

Why is it that most atheists who post here are so negative about almost everything

I’m not an Atheist. I believe in the Divine Power of the Universe (Deity/God). What I find no use for is RELIGION.

Go be happy

Happiness is not a necessary part of life. Propriety is a necessary part of life.

 

[ding]

It is you who doesn't u/stand

I think "God wills all religions" amounts to Changing doctrine.. no, it is changing DOGMA

That new doctrine contradicts 1960 years of Catholic teaching. You have to choose.. Was the Church correct for 1960 years or was Vatican II? Which one is it?

If your opinion is that V2 is correct

I don't care much for your opinion and find it incredibly, egregiously, abysmally illogical

Which doctrine changed? Can you be specific?