A Good Definition of Treason

[maineman]

Ohhhh, and what 'symptoms' would those be?

lol

you know..... water weight gain... irritability... bloating.... stuff like that

 

[Annie]

lol

you know..... water weight gain... irritability... bloating.... stuff like that

What the *!$@##% do you mean? Irratability! And just for your edification, WWG and bloating are redundant in this case.

 

[glockmail]

.... I am sorry that I made the assumption that you were female.... you certainly seemed to have been suffering the symptoms. honest mistake.

When you ASSUME you make an ass out of you not me.

What symptoms would that be? Are you as intolerant of females as you are of "trannys"?

 

[glockmail]

What the *!$@##% do you mean? Irratability! And just for your edification, WWG and bloating are redundant in this case.

Whoa, Teach! Restraint!

 

[maineman]

When you ASSUME you make an ass out of you not me.

What symptoms would that be? Are you as intolerant of females as you are of "trannys"?

I am intolerant of neither.

I do not, however, suffer fools lightly.

 

[glockmail]

I am intolerant of neither.

I do not, however, suffer fools lightly.

1. Facts not in evidence.
2. You must have trouble getting out of bed in the morning and facing your mirror then.

 

[maineman]

1. Facts not in evidence.
2. You must have trouble getting out of bed in the morning and facing your mirror then.

1. by deposition
2. no trouble whatsoever.... I really only notice it when I run into you, oddly enough.

 

[maineman]

Another circle jerk by maineman....

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pentagon officials undercut the intelligence community in the run-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq by insisting in briefings to the White House that there was a clear relationship between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, the Defense Department's inspector general said Friday.

Acting Inspector General Thomas F. Gimble told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the office headed by former Pentagon policy chief Douglas J. Feith took "inappropriate" actions in advancing conclusions on al Qaeda connections not backed up by the nation's intelligence agencies.

Gimble said that while the actions of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy "were not illegal or unauthorized," they "did not provide the most accurate analysis of intelligence to senior decision makers" at a time when the White House was moving toward war with Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/09/iraq.pentagon.intel.ap/index.html

yet glock still insists that it was undeniable FACT that Saddam helped Osama. Is actually being waterlogged with koolaid necessary for such foolishness?

 

[pegwinn]

I thought this was supposed to be a treason/congress thread. Now I like a good bar fight as much as the next guy, but when switching gears, send a memo please. Via PM so everyone can be informed.

 

[maineman]

I thought this was supposed to be a treason/congress thread. Now I like a good bar fight as much as the next guy, but when switching gears, send a memo please. Via PM so everyone can be informed.

is this directed at me or glock?

 

[Annie]

I thought this was supposed to be a treason/congress thread. Now I like a good bar fight as much as the next guy, but when switching gears, send a memo please. Via PM so everyone can be informed.

A voice of sanity, well needed tonight. As for the pm memo, hopefully we're not starting that up again?

 

[pegwinn]

is this directed at me or glock?

Neither. If I take issue with someone, there is no doubt about who or why.

A voice of sanity, well needed tonight. As for the pm memo, hopefully we're not starting that up again?

Not starting anything at all. twas tounge in cheek along the "didn't get the memo" jokes. I have no issues with PM's since I don't have an expectation of privacy on the internet in any form. No worries.

 

[Annie]

Neither. If I take issue with someone, there is no doubt about who or why.



Not starting anything at all. twas tounge in cheek along the "didn't get the memo" jokes. I have no issues with PM's since I don't have an expectation of privacy on the internet in any form. No worries.

I'm becoming freakin paranoid. I'm sorry!

 

[pegwinn]

I'm becoming freakin paranoid. I'm sorry!

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aint out to get you.

 

[Annie]

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aint out to get you.

Oh dear! You have a point!

 

[Gurdari]

If a firefighter was lighting fires as he put them out - we'd thionk he was insane.

Swap 'firefighter' with 'president' and 'fires' with 'terrorism'... oh, you get the point.

Maybe we're all fighting the wrong abstract thought, maybe a war on fear or hopelessness would better use our bunker busting liberation.

 

[pegwinn]

If a firefighter was lighting fires as he put them out - we'd thionk he was insane.

Swap 'firefighter' with 'president' and 'fires' with 'terrorism'... oh, you get the point.

Maybe we're all fighting the wrong abstract thought, maybe a war on fear or hopelessness would better use our bunker busting liberation.

Help me out here if you will. The thread is about congress and treason. Are you asserting the president is nuts, or a traitor, or both?

 

[glockmail]

....yet glock still insists that it was undeniable FACT that Saddam helped Osama. Is actually being waterlogged with koolaid necessary for such foolishness?

Sandy Berger-Saddam Hussein-Osama bin Laden connection

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762171/posts

The NARA investigation report said Clinton signed an April 12, 2002, letter designating Berger – and another person whose named is redacted – as "agents on his behalf to review relevant NSC documents regarding Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda, Sudan and Presidential correspondence from or to (Sudanese President) Omar Bashir, contained in the Clinton Presidential records." A subsequent letter from a National Security Council official, May 14, 2002, said Berger repeatedly was briefed that "he was not allowed to remove any documentation from NARA."
* Omar al-Bashir : President of Sudan. Born in 1945, both served in the Sudanese armed forces in the years before the outbreak of war in 1983: Bashir as an infantry commander, Garang as an army colonel. Neither has been elected in free elections. Both have headed militaristic, oppressive regimes that have tortured and killed their opponents, suppressed civil society and abused human rights (although not in equal measure: Khartoum’s record has been far graver and far more resistant to change). Both have pursued a strategy of capturing power and then using that power to transform Sudanese society, rather than mobilizing the people in pursuit of a political aim. But the differences between the two men are every bit as important as their similarities. Bashir has, until now, pursued an uncompromising Islamist agenda based on a belief in the assimilationist power of Islam, enforced through the barrel of a gun. Garang has been fighting for a democratic “New Sudan” ¬ a united Sudan in which all of its citizens would be equal regardless of race, color or creed, and power would not be monopolized, as it has been since independence, by an Arabized Muslim elite. - "A Sudan peace ‘between two dictators’ ," by Julie Flint, The Daily Star (Lebanon), 13 December 2003 (Good article, don't be fooled by title)
Note the following three snippets come from articles written BEFORE Bush coined the term "Axis of Evil" :
1999 : (SUDAN, POSSIBLE PRODUCTION OF WEAPONS- see IRAQ, IRAN ) According to Sudanese opposition sources, Khartoum's plans call for the Kafuri and Mayu installations to go into full production sometimes in 1999. The Iraqi and Iranian experts anticipate the Kafuri installations to be largely operational in the first half of 1999, and the Mayu production and weaponization facilities to be operational in the second half of that year. - Yossef Bodansky, "The Iraqi WMD Challenge - Myths and Reality," TASK FORCE ON TERRORISM & UNCONVENTIONAL WARFARE, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, D.C. 20515 , February 10, 1998
1999 late : (NORTH KOREA OFFERS SUDAN A MISSILE FACTORY) In late 1999 it was reported that a US intelligence agency reported that North Korea had offered to sell Sudan a factory for assembling Scud missiles.- "WMD AROUND THE WORLD : SUDAN," http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/sudan/missile/ , March 23, 2000
2000 early : (NORTH KOREAN DELEGATION & IRAQIS MEET IN SUDAN, IRAQ FINANCES NORTH KOREAN MISSILE PLANT) Other reports suggest that in early 2000 a delegation of North Korean technical experts and a military research mission from Baghdad met in Khartoum. With $475 million in Iraqi financing, North Korea is said to be building a missile plant near Khartoum. Although most of this sum would go to North Korea for turnkey construction and facility staffing, Sudan would receive some payment for supporting and hosting the operation. The facility would enable Iraq to refurbish the old missiles stored in Sudan, and to build new longer-range missiles. - "WMD AROUND THE WORLD : SUDAN," http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/sudan/missile/ , March 23, 2000
....... okaaay....
Now that we've tied Iraq, Iran and North Korea in Sudan together... let's get back to the guy Clinton was corresponding with, President Omar al Bashir and Bashir's best buddy , warlord-terrorist leader Hassan al-Tourabi who as it happens finally gets arrested AFTER Bush is inaugerated :
FEBRUARY 21, 2001 : (SUDAN : ARREST OF HASSAN AL-TOURABI / AL TURABI)[* See more info below on Hassan al Tourabi's relationship with Iraq and al Qaeda]

FEBRUARY 22, 2001 : (SUDAN : SECURITY TIGHTENED FOLLOWING ARREST OF AL-TOURABI) Security has been tightened in Sudan following the arrest of Islamist leader Hassan al-Tourabi, a former close ally of President Omar al-Bashir. At least 20 of Mr Tourabi’s Popular National Congress (PNC) supporters have been rounded up since his arrest on 21 February, says an aide. Armed police have also deployed around the party headquarters as well as the offices of his newspaper, Rai al-Shaab, which was not published on 22 February.
Sudan’s Information Minister, Ghazi Salah Eddin, told the BBC that Mr Tourabi had been arrested because he was cooperating with what he called a terrorist organisation to fight the state. He added that at a news conference, Mr Tourabi had given details of the proposed cooperation with the rebels and that this had gone further than what was in the document.
------ "Sudan. Clampdown after al-Tourabi’s arrest," (ANB-BIA, Brussels, 23 February 2001) - via http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cach...10301d.htm+"Hassan+al-Tourabi"&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
1990 - mid March 2003 : (IRAQ AL QAEDA/AL QAEDA IRAQ CONTACTS BEGIN; BIN LADEN SENDS EMISSARIES TO JORDAN TO MEET WITH IRAQI GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS) According to the memo--which lays out the intelligence in 50 numbered points--Iraq-al Qaeda contacts began in 1990 and continued through mid-March 2003, days before the Iraq War began. Most of the numbered passages contain straight, fact-based intelligence reporting, which some cases includes an evaluation of the credibility of the source. This reporting is often followed by commentary and analysis. ..
The relationship began shortly before the first Gulf War. According to reporting in the memo, bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials."
The primary go-between throughout these early stages was Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi, a leader of the al Qaeda-affiliated National Islamic Front. Numerous sources have confirmed this. One defector reported that "al-Turabi was instrumental in arranging the Iraqi-al Qaeda relationship. The defector said Iraq sought al Qaeda influence through its connections with Afghanistan, to facilitate the transshipment of proscribed weapons and equipment to Iraq. In return, Iraq provided al Qaeda with training and instructors."
One such confirmation came in a postwar interview with one of Saddam Hussein's henchmen. As the memo details:
4. According to a May 2003 debriefing of a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, Iraqi intelligence established a highly secretive relationship with Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and later with al Qaeda. The first meeting in 1992 between the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and al Qaeda was brokered by [Hassan] al-Turabi.
Former IIS deputy director Faruq Hijazi and senior al Qaeda leader [Ayman al] Zawahiri were at the meeting--the first of several between 1992 and 1995 in Sudan.
Additional meetings between Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda were held in Pakistan. Members of al Qaeda would sometimes visit Baghdad where they would meet the Iraqi intelligence chief [Mani abd-al-Rashid al-Tikriti] in a safe house. The report claimed that [Iraqi leader] Saddam [Hussein] insisted the relationship with al Qaeda be kept secret. After 9-11, the source said Saddam made a personnel change in the IIS for fear the relationship would come under scrutiny from foreign probes.
------- "The U.S. government's secret memo detailing cooperation between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. ," by Stephen F. Hayes, 11/24/2003, the Weekly Standard, Volume 009, Issue 11
Then there's this odd little article :
NOVEMBER 2001 (A DELEGATION OF FIVE IRAQIS IS ARRESTED BY KENYAN SECRET SERVICE WHILE TRAVELING TO EASTERN CONGO ON FAKE INDIAN PASSPORTS; CONTACT BETWEEN THE MAYI-MAYI MILITIA & IRAQ WAS BROKERED BY A SUDANESE GENERAL) Iraqi agents have been negotiating with criminal gangs in the Democratic Republic of Congo to trade Iraqi military weapons and training for high-grade minerals, possibly including uranium, according to evidence obtained by the Guardian. A delegation of five Iraqis was arrested in Nairobi by the Kenyan secret service last November [2001] while travelling to eastern Congo on fake Indian passports, a western intelligence officer said.
Documents seen by the Guardian show that leaders of the Mayi-Mayi, a brutal militia embroiled in the country's civil war, visited Baghdad twice and offered diamonds and gold to the Iraqis. Uranium was not mentioned in the documents but the intelligence officer said the Mayi-Mayi would be able to obtain the material in areas it controlled. Initial contact between Baghdad and the militia was said to have been brokered by a Sudanese general who offered Sudan as a conduit for Iraqi oil and arms. [when was the initial contact made?]
---- "African gangs offer route to uranium : Suspicion falls on Congo and South Africa ," by James Astill in Nairobi and Rory Carroll in Johannesburg, The Guardian UK, Wednesday September 25, 2002
Now, why would Iraq be interested in Congo? ;-)
What issue sent the Clinton clingons into a frenzy regarding Iraq, al Qaeda and Africa?
Then... an Iraqi government memo detailing dealings with the government of Sudan and bin Laden of al Qaeda:
JANUARY 1997 or later : (IRAQI DOCUMENT IS COMPILED; IT CONCERNS RELATIONS BETWEEN IRAQ & SAUDI OPPOSITION GROUPS - See SUDAN) A SECOND internal Iraqi file obtained by The Weekly Standard concerns relations between Iraqi Intelligence and Saudi opposition groups. The document was apparently compiled at some point after January 1997, judging by the most recent date in the text, and discusses four Saudi opposition groups: the Committee for Defense of Legitimate Rights, the Reform and Advice Committee (Osama bin Laden), People of al Jazeera Union Organization, and the Saudi Hezbollah.
The New York Times first reported on the existence of this file on June 25, 2004. "American officials described the document as an internal report by the Iraqi intelligence service detailing efforts to seek cooperation with several Saudi opposition groups, including Mr. bin Laden's organization, before al Qaeda had become a full-fledged terrorist organization."
[* My note : al Qaeda became a full-fledged terror org in 1988]
According to the Times, a Pentagon task force "concluded that the document 'appeared authentic,' and that it 'corroborates and expands on previous reporting' about contacts between Iraqi intelligence and Mr. bin Laden in Sudan, according to the task force's analysis."
The most provocative aspect of the document is the discussion of efforts to seek cooperation between Iraqi Intelligence and the Saudi opposition group run by bin Laden, known to the Iraqis as the "Reform and Advice Committee." The translation of that section appears below.
"... We moved towards the committee by doing the following:
A. During the visit of the Sudanese Dr. Ibrahim al-Sanusi to Iraq and his meeting with Mr. Uday Saddam Hussein, on December 13, 1994, in the presence of the respectable, Mr. Director of the Intelligence Service, he [Dr. al-Sanusi] pointed out that the opposing Osama bin Laden, residing in Sudan, is reserved and afraid to be depicted by his enemies as an agent of Iraq. We prepared to meet him in Sudan (The Honorable Presidency was informed of the results of the meeting in our letter 782 on December 17, 1994).
B. An approval to meet with opposer Osama bin Laden by the Intelligence Services was given by the Honorable Presidency in its letter 138, dated January 11, 1995 (attachment 6).
He [bin Laden] was met by the previous general director of M4 in Sudan and in the presence of the Sudanese, Ibrahim al-Sanusi, on February 19, 1995. We discussed with him his organization. He requested the broadcast of the speeches of Sheikh Sulayman al-Uda (who has influence within Saudi Arabia and outside due to being a well known religious and influential personality) and to designate a program for them through the broadcast directed inside Iraq, and to perform joint operations against the foreign forces in the land of Hijaz.
(The Honorable Presidency was informed of the details of the meeting in our letter 370 on March 4, 1995, attachment 7.)
C. The approval was received from the Leader, Mr. President, may God keep him, to designate a program for them through the directed broadcast. We were left to develop the relationship and the cooperation between the two sides to see what other doors of cooperation and agreement open up. The Sudanese side was informed of the Honorable Presidency's agreement above, through the representative of the Respectable Director of Intelligence Services, our Ambassador in Khartoum.
D. Due to the recent situation of Sudan and being accused of supporting and embracing of terrorism, an agreement with the opposing Saudi Osama bin Laden was reached. The agreement required him to leave Sudan to another area. He left Khartoum in July 1996. The information we have indicates that he is currently in Afghanistan. The relationship with him is ongoing through the Sudanese side. Currently we are working to invigorate this relationship through a new channel in light of his present location."
(It should be noted that the documents given to The Weekly Standard did not include the attachments, letters to and from Saddam Hussein about the status of the Iraq-al Qaeda relationship. And the last sentence differs slightly from the version provided to the New York Times. In the Weekly Standard document, Iraq is seeking to "invigorate" its relationship with al Qaeda; in the Times translation, Iraq is seeking to "continue" that relationship.)
Another passage of the Iraq-Saudi opposition memo details the relationship between the Iraqi regime and the Committee for Defense of Legitimate Rights (CDLR), founded by Dr. Muhammad Abdallah al-Massari.
Once again, Dr. Ibrahim al-Sanusi, the senior Sudanese government official, was a key liaison between the two sides. Al-Massari is widely regarded as an ideological mouthpiece for al Qaeda, a designation he does little to dispute. His radio station broadcasts al Qaeda propaganda, and his website features the rantings of prominent jihadists. He has lived in London for more than a decade. The Iraqi Intelligence memo recounts two meetings involving Dr. al-Sanusi and CDLR representatives in 1994 and reports that al-Massari requested assistance from the Iraqi regime for a trip to Iraq.
------ "Saddam's Philippines Terror Connection (Yes, Saddam financially supported terrorists)," Weekly Standard ^ | 03/18/2006 | Stephen F. Hayes
And then this distraction comes along which mentions an email to Clinton - but NOTE- it's by the NY Time's infamous James Risen [look at some of his other beauties regarding Iraq] so for what it's worth:
FEBRUARY 1997 : (SUDAN'S PRESIDENT AL-BASHIR SENDS PERSONAL LETTER TO U.S. PRESIDENT CLINTON OFFERING TO ALLOW U.S. PERSONNEL TO ENTER SUDAN) In February 1997, Sudanese President Oman al-Bashir sent President Clinton a personal letter. It offered, among other things, to allow U.S. intelligence, law-enforcement and counterterrorism personnel to enter Sudan and to go anywhere and see anything, to help stamp out terrorism. The United States never replied to that letter; the isolaters derided it as a meaningless "charm offensive" by Sudan, in Ms. [Susan] Rice's words. ------ "Decision to Strike Factory in Sudan Based Partly on Surmise," By TIM WEINER and JAMES RISEN, N Y TIMES, September 21, 1998 Don't think Sudan was too serious- after that offer they made kissiface with Iraq - not just on sanctions and weapons but even on the issue of the war in southern Sudan against the blacks :
MARCH 1997 : (TALKS BETWEEN SUDANESE LEADER BASHIR & IRAQ'S ENVOY SHABIB AL MALIK PLEDGE MUTUAL SUPPORT) However, soon after ships arrived in Port Sudan with Iraqi weapons in early March 1997, Sudan and Iraq pledged mutual support during talks here between Umar al-Bashir and the visiting Iraqi presidential envoy Shabib al-Malik.
Bashir asked Malik to assure Saddam Hussein of Sudan's "support for Iraq and its rejection of attempts for UN sanctions against that Arab country."
Malik expressed Iraq's support for Sudan "against the aggression it is facing" and promised military and other help. Most important was the conclusion reached by Iraqi military experts that only a ruthless total war has a chance of defeating the Black rebels in southern Sudan.
Now, Malik assured Bashir that Iraq was ready to support and facilitate the required escalation given certain specific conditions -- Iraq would build in Sudan sophisticated factories for chemical and biological weapons from systems presently hidden in Iraq and Sudan, as well as components acquired in the West and share some of the products with the Sudanese Armed Forces. --------- Yossef Bodansky, "The Iraqi WMD Challenge - Myths and Reality," TASK FORCE ON TERRORISM & UNCONVENTIONAL WARFARE, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, D.C. 20515 , February 10, 1998

 

[maineman]

let me guess....this is your idea of "facts"?

"Steve Hayes" and "Facts" don't really belong in the same sentence.

 

[glockmail]

let me guess....this is your idea of "facts"?

"Steve Hayes" and "Facts" don't really belong in the same sentence.

Typical Liberal non-response: "shoot the messenger". We see yet another pattern.