A Cure for the Gay.

[Shogun]

Nothing to dream about. I've never seen anyone not own you. All anyone has to do is point out the intellectual dishonesty to your arguments.

Will someone PLEASE give this man a worthers original?

or, at the very least, a frickin mentholated cough drop or valamint?

 

[Puddles]

No problem. Get rid of the double-standard that puts the man at the mercy of the woman's decision.

If the woman wants to have the child and he is willing to foot the bill for an abortion, he should be legally released from any obligation to support the child.

Conversely, if the man wants the child and the woman does not, she carries it to term and hands it over, and is released from all responsibility in regard to the child.

If you want to hold the man responsible, then you have to allow him half the decision-making power. That is of course if you want equality period, not just where it suits the agenda.

Well I guess we’re already really off topic, might as well.

I agree get rid of the double standard but what you're suggesting isn’t a very good idea. First, you can’t force a woman to carry a baby to term – if the law did force her to (which would be the day everything has gone to hell), she could intentionally do things to hurt the baby (smoking, drinking, etc).

Since the ultimate decision is the woman’s – and unfortunately it doesn’t really matter what the man wants because it’s her body, doesn’t matter if it’s his DNA in her. Hate it as much as you want but that is reality.

I would think the following would be more ideal solutions:

Both mother and father want the child: shared/joint custody
Both mother and father don’t want the child: shared cost of abortion
Mother wants the child, father doesn’t: mother is wholly responsible for the child, including financially.
Father wants the child, the father doesn’t: father loses out, unless mother is willing to bring the baby to term and then give up all parental rights…I just don’t see that happening, maybe the one or two rare cases.

As for who is responsible for birth control, both are. Both need to be mature and smart enough to know and to use it. But even then there’s no guarantee the protection is going to work. I’ve known women to get pregnant even though they were on the pill or used condoms…life happens.

 

[Gunny]

you don't have to spill your mashed peas for my sake, pops.. Rationalize whatever you need to. I'm sure law abiding slave-owning whites could easily polish their own halo too. LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE? HAHAHA! David Duke's logic and sense common around the cross burnin' perhaps...

I assure that you are today's version of the accepted bigot shaking your fist at gays instead of George Jefferson. Say whatever you need to in order to rationalize glaring hatred as "common sense" no more profound than the same "common sense" that caused the black employee to have to shit in the bucket in the basement set aside for COLOREDS.

Typical extremist idiot .... agree with me or you're 100% to the other side. You blatantly disregard science, nature, common sense and logic to support a bullshit political agenda.

And I ALWAYS manage to snare a jacked-up dipstick like you. I made the statement homosexuality is not normal. It is correct and supported by the aforementioned science, nature common sense and logic.

Out of that your twisted little mind comes to the conclusion that I am some gay-hating, gay basher. And as is the case with most of your drivel, you are wrong in that assumption as well.

 

[Gunny]

Well I guess we’re already really off topic, might as well.

I agree get rid of the double standard but what you're suggesting isn’t a very good idea. First, you can’t force a woman to carry a baby to term – if the law did force her to (which would be the day everything has gone to hell), she could intentionally do things to hurt the baby (smoking, drinking, etc).

Since the ultimate decision is the woman’s – and unfortunately it doesn’t really matter what the man wants because it’s her body, doesn’t matter if it’s his DNA in her. Hate it as much as you want but that is reality.

I would think the following would be more ideal solutions:

Both mother and father want the child: shared/joint custody
Both mother and father don’t want the child: shared cost of abortion
Mother wants the child, father doesn’t: mother is wholly responsible for the child, including financially.
Father wants the child, the father doesn’t: father loses out, unless mother is willing to bring the baby to term and then give up all parental rights…I just don’t see that happening, maybe the one or two rare cases.

As for who is responsible for birth control, both are. Both need to be mature and smart enough to know and to use it. But even then there’s no guarantee the protection is going to work. I’ve known women to get pregnant even though they were on the pill or used condoms…life happens.

I figured I get the "it's the woman's body" line from someone. THAT is the root of the double standard. You're also arguing a double-standard as far as responsibility.

If the decision is ultimately the woman's and the man has no say, and ultimately she is the one will become pregnant, then so too has a larger part of the responsibility for birth control.

Personally, I can't imagine a man being so stupid as to trust a woman telling him she's protected. If in that position, I would make sure of it myself. But, that's me.

It is however, completely unfair that the man has no say, but can be held financially responsible for 18+ years of a child's life. If he has to pay, it is only fair that he be part of the "choice."

 

[actsnoblemartin]

arguing about now?

 

[Puddles]

I figured I get the "it's the woman's body" line from someone.

Well honestly what do you expect??? Do you think that we'd be having all these abortion debates if it was men who got pregnant instead of women?

THAT is the root of the double standard.

Ummm how?

You're also arguing a double-standard as far as responsibility.

If the decision is ultimately the woman's and the man has no say, and ultimately she is the one will become pregnant, then so too has a larger part of the responsibility for birth control.

Women do need to take greater control because it will effect them more than the man, hence the reason why the ultimate decision is hers! Hopefully you finally get it now.

Personally, I can't imagine a man being so stupid as to trust a woman telling him she's protected. If in that position, I would make sure of it myself. But, that's me.

The same can be said for women trusting men...no offence but you sound pretty bitter when it comes to women...maybe it's just the way I'm perceiving things but I've noticed it in several of your posts.

It is however, completely unfair that the man has no say, but can be held financially responsible for 18+ years of a child's life. If he has to pay, it is only fair that he be part of the "choice."

I already agreed with you about this.

 

[Gunny]

Well honestly what do you expect??? Do you think that we'd be having all these abortion debates if it was men who got pregnant instead of women?

Irrelevant. Men don't have babies. Regardless, "it's the woman's body" takes equality in decision-making out of the equation; which, was my point. It should also take the same amount percentage-wise of responsibility off the male.



Ummm how?

Read my first response.


Women do need to take greater control because it will effect them more than the man, hence the reason why the ultimate decision is hers! Hopefully you finally get it now.

I don't "finally get" what you're selling. I see "control" and "ultimate decision is hers" but NO ultimate responsibility is hers. About as one-way as it gets. I get THAT. It's wrong, and unfair, period.



The same can be said for women trusting men...no offence but you sound pretty bitter when it comes to women...maybe it's just the way I'm perceiving things but I've noticed it in several of your posts.

I never said it could not. I spoke for myself. If I was a woman, I would make sure I was protected if I did not want or could not raise a child.

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with bitterness. I hold myself accountable for my actions, and if I want to ensure there aren't any "mistakes," I see to it myself.

That's not about trusting women. That's about trusting people to be irresponsibile then look for a bail out on the consequences of their actions nowadays.


I already agreed with you about this.

But it isn't what you're saying.

 

[Puddles]

May I ask why you don't use the quote feature when you respond? Do you realize how inconvenient you it make it to respond by back to you?

[riginally Posted by Puddles View Post
Irrelevant. Men don't have babies. Regardless, "it's the woman's body" takes equality in decision-making out of the equation; which, was my point. It should also take the same amount percentage-wise of responsibility off the male.


I don't "finally get" what you're selling. I see "control" and "ultimate decision is hers" but NO ultimate responsibility is hers. About as one-way as it gets. I get THAT. It's wrong, and unfair, period.

You missed the point! This is ONE area where men don't have full control and decision-making power and they whine and cry about inequality every chance they get when it's not about that in the least...it's so hypocritical.

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with bitterness. I hold myself accountable for my actions, and if I want to ensure there aren't any "mistakes," I see to it myself.

That's not what I meant and you know it! It's the way you speak about women but in your last post you did change your tone. I'm all for personal responsibility, I don't think my position has shown that I'm not.

But it isn't what you're saying.

I'm not sure what you're having problems understanding. If you re-read my previous post, you will note that I have removed all responsibility from the man if there's an unwanted pregnancy...what is the problem here? If you're speaking to the way things are currently, I've already that it is NOT fair towards men.

Again, there's sooooooooo many unfair things for women but it's just funny to see men harp on the same thing over and over.

 

[Gunny]

May I ask why you don't use the quote feature when you respond? Do you realize how inconvenient you it make it to respond by back to you?

I respond specifically to each paragraph in a different color. That way you don't have to search your quote and my replies for answers to your questions. I do, however use the quote feature. I just type within it. In 3 years, you're the first person to gripe.


You missed the point! This is ONE area where men don't have full control and decision-making power and they whine and cry about inequality every chance they get when it's not about that in the least...it's so hypocritical.

Horsecrap. That's a pretty lame attempt to defelct from your own hypocrisy.


That's not what I meant and you know it! It's the way you speak about women but in your last post you did change your tone. I'm all for personal responsibility, I don't think my position has shown that I'm not.

I don't speak about women in general in any certain way specifically aimed at just women. I speak cynically of people, because that's the best way to deal with them.

I'm not sure what you're having problems understanding. If you re-read my previous post, you will note that I have removed all responsibility from the man if there's an unwanted pregnancy...what is the problem here? If you're speaking to the way things are currently, I've already that it is NOT fair towards men.

Again, there's sooooooooo many unfair things for women but it's just funny to see men harp on the same thing over and over.

Wrong. Want to get me harping on how women in the military are treated, feel free to start a thread on it. I'm "harping" against unfairness, period.

 

[Puddles]

I really don't get this. We're pretty much in agreement but you keep picking something to complain about.

Just to clarify, I mean we both agree about personal responsibility. We both agree that women shoulder the greater burden. We both agree that men should not be held for an unwanted pregnancy. But yet, you still feel with all that being said that there's inequality because the ultimate choice is the woman's...how is that not hypocritical???

 

[wiggles]

I would think the following would be more ideal solutions:

Both mother and father want the child: shared/joint custody
Both mother and father don’t want the child: shared cost of abortion
Mother wants the child, father doesn’t: mother is wholly responsible for the child, including financially.
Father wants the child, the father doesn’t: father loses out, unless mother is willing to bring the baby to term and then give up all parental rights…I just don’t see that happening, maybe the one or two rare cases.

Both mother and father want the child: Marriage or shared/joint custody
Both mother and father don’t want the child: shared cost of abortion
Mother wants the child, father doesn’t: Father is at least half financially responsible for the child.
Father wants the child, the mother doesn’t: The father can go find a woman who wants to have a baby with him.

 

[Puddles]

Both mother and father want the child: Marriage or shared/joint custody
Both mother and father don’t want the child: shared cost of abortion
Mother wants the child, father doesn’t: Father is at least half financially responsible for the child.
Father wants the child, the mother doesn’t: The father can go find a woman who wants to have a baby with him.

How is that fair?

 

[wiggles]

How is that fair?

He knocked her up. If he didn't want that, there are measures he could have taken to prevent it.

 

[Superlative]

He knocked her up. If he didn't want that, there are measures he could have taken to prevent it.

Like anal.

 

[Superlative]

Sorry, that was out of line. carry on.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Mother and Father are responsable financially until someone legally takes it over from them.

ITS NOT A PART OF HER BODY. THE EVIDENCE IS SOOOO OVERWHELMING, ITS SIMILAR TO WHEN PEOPLE STILL KEPT INSISTING THE EARTH WAS FLAT.

Instead of abortion, adoption should be the answer at all times

Abortion is NEVER a moral choice. We are talking about a HUMAN LIFE here folks.

The baby in the womb was always considered a child until the abortion debate came up, then suddenly it was a fetus at the most convienent of times. Watch last weeks "House" if you can get a chance.

 

[roomy]

A cure for blue eyes might come sooner.

 

[wiggles]

You're the one who thinks genetic material's passed on through buttsex.

"Perhaps you could point out where I said that."

It would be his passed on to the next generation. Consider it an honor killing, like those Muslims that you libs think are no problem.

From Amnesty International

From Human Rights Watch

and from the Feminist Majority Foundation

I searched Focus on the Family and found nothing.