A Conservative's view on waterboarding

[rightwinger]

I grew up watching movies where the Germans and Japs tortured Americans to get information..

We have ways of making you talk. There were no bigger villains I always thought the good guys don't resort to torture

 

[The Rabbi]

I grew up watching movies where the Germans and Japs tortured Americans to get information..

We have ways of making you talk. There were no bigger villains I always thought the good guys don't resort to torture

Can you name anyone we have tortured?

 

[Wicked Jester]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Did you go through S.E.R.E.......The complete course?

We didn't torture, we waterboarded. And it worked.

I could give a rats ass what a bunch of ******* liberal bleeding hearts believe or claim....This is not the usual enemy. They are batshit fuckin' crazy, yet far from stupid. There is no debate going on amongst them as to what they will do with those they capture. There is not going to be any water poured over the head, with a doctor present, to make someone feel uncomfortable......NO, there is going to be abject brutal torture followed by a gruesome death, posted for everyone to see........THEY ARE NOT GOING AWAY. And playing nice with the crazy motherfuckers will only get more americans killed.

I've had it with fools even trying to compare our tacticts with this enemy.......It's a bunch of ******* cowardly bullshit, meant only to bolster a stupid partisan argument.....Bush enacted the policy, it must be evil I TELLS YA!.......IDIOTS!

 

[del]

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

i thought you had me on ignore, putz?

another faux conservative incapable of honesty.


shocker

 

[geauxtohell]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Did you go through S.E.R.E.......The complete course?

No.

We didn't torture, we waterboarded. And it worked.

Refer to the bolded statement.

I could give a rats ass what a bunch of ******* liberal bleeding hearts believe or claim....This is not the usual enemy. They are batshit fuckin' crazy, yet far from stupid. There is no debate going on amongst them as to what they will do with those they capture. There is not going to be any water poured over the head, with a doctor present, to make someone feel uncomfortable......NO, there is going to be abject brutal torture followed by a gruesome death, posted for everyone to see........THEY ARE NOT GOING AWAY. And playing nice with the crazy motherfuckers will only get more americans killed.

I've had it with fools even trying to compare our tacticts with this enemy.......It's a bunch of ******* cowardly bullshit, meant only to bolster a stupid partisan argument.....Bush enacted the policy, it must be evil I TELLS YA!.......IDIOTS!

You are entitled to your opinion and a single vote.

 

[rightwinger]

I grew up watching movies where the Germans and Japs tortured Americans to get information..

We have ways of making you talk. There were no bigger villains I always thought the good guys don't resort to torture

Can you name anyone we have tortured?

Water boarding is torture.......unless you are Republican. Then you hide it under the name of enhanced interrogation. If there was nothing wrong with it, you wouldn't have to make up names

 

[Valerie]

cookie?.........What are you, a ******?

touch a nerve, honey?

You're turning into a creepy lil' rope smoker, del.

Gee you have a perty mouf.

 

[Valerie]

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

i thought you had me on ignore, putz?

another faux conservative incapable of honesty.


shocker

He claimed to have put me on ignore the other day too yet he negged me in this thread today with a comment clearly in response to one of my posts.


Go fig.

 

[The Rabbi]

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

i thought you had me on ignore, putz?

another faux conservative incapable of honesty.


shocker

If you have nothing intelligent to say, just STFU.

 

[The Rabbi]

I grew up watching movies where the Germans and Japs tortured Americans to get information..

We have ways of making you talk. There were no bigger villains I always thought the good guys don't resort to torture

Can you name anyone we have tortured?

Water boarding is torture.......unless you are Republican. Then you hide it under the name of enhanced interrogation. If there was nothing wrong with it, you wouldn't have to make up names

there are people on this site that have been waterboarded. I would venture no one here has been tortured. Except me, by del's stupid comments.

 

[del]

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

i thought you had me on ignore, putz?

another faux conservative incapable of honesty.


shocker

If you have nothing intelligent to say, just STFU.

take your own advice, liar.

 

[bripat9643]

So, we should be a "cruel and unusual punishment" country now as well as a death sentence country.

The definition of "cruel" depends on the nature of the crime. Nothing could be too cruel for those animals being detained in Gitmo. I say feed them all into an industrial meet grinder feet first. Mix ihe result with pork and make giant sausages with it.

 

[bripat9643]

We should have pulled out of Afganistan 6 months after we went in and never have went into Iraq.

Abu Grabass was not a college prank.
Gitmo prisoners should have gotten due proccess under our laws.
And I am not thrilled that we essentially assisaniated OBL.
That is not how the USA is supposed to operate.

We're all thankful no one listens to a thing you say.

 

[del]

So, we should be a "cruel and unusual punishment" country now as well as a death sentence country.

The definition of "cruel" depends on the nature of the crime. Nothing could be too cruel for those animals being detained in Gitmo. I say feed them all into an industrial meet grinder feet first. Mix ihe result with pork and make giant sausages with it.

thanks.

i'm sure mensa will be in touch with you shortly.

 

[bripat9643]

Pragmatism is fatalism. If you need to go through life with a security blanket and tell yourself that, if we are just evil enough to the people we claim are evil, we will be safe; then go for it.

You aren't convincing anyone other than yourself.

ROFL! 5000 years of history has proven your theory of international relations dead wrong. The way you keep a country safe is to kill the people who are trying to kill you.

That's the bottom line. There's nothing "evil" about self defense.

 

[geauxtohell]

Pragmatism is fatalism. If you need to go through life with a security blanket and tell yourself that, if we are just evil enough to the people we claim are evil, we will be safe; then go for it.

You aren't convincing anyone other than yourself.

ROFL! 5000 years of history has proven your theory of international relations dead wrong. The way you keep a country safe is to kill the people who are trying to kill you.

That's the bottom line. There's nothing "evil" about self defense.

We are not talking about killing or self defense.

Keep up.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Of course he said they used the info.....ALL INFO available to track OBL down. Still can not prove he would not have been tracked down without the torture info... And STILL does not change the stance of the OP that the end does not justify the means...


Torture is unreliable, since people will often say anything — invent desperate fictions or diversions — to stop the pain or fear. That doesn’t mean waterboarding will never yield valuable information. Feeding a detainee into an industrial shredder, as Saddam Hussein’s torturers sometimes did, might yield valuable information too. But some techniques are forbidden not because they never work, not because they aren’t deserved, but because our very right to call ourselves decent human beings depends in part on our not doing them.

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

The current CIA director, Leon Panetta, is much less definitive on the subject. He told NBC News, "I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question."

Either you're glazing over what I posted or not looking at it at all.

CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday that Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You've heard of rendition..............?

So is Obamush going to be charged?
CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid
Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid - World news - Death of bin Laden - msnbc.com

Of course he said they used the info.....ALL INFO available to track OBL down. Still can not prove he would not have been tracked down without the torture info... And STILL does not change the stance of the OP that the end does not justify the means...


Torture is unreliable, since people will often say anything — invent desperate fictions or diversions — to stop the pain or fear. That doesn’t mean waterboarding will never yield valuable information. Feeding a detainee into an industrial shredder, as Saddam Hussein’s torturers sometimes did, might yield valuable information too. But some techniques are forbidden not because they never work, not because they aren’t deserved, but because our very right to call ourselves decent human beings depends in part on our not doing them.

How did they get the info?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Like shooting an unarmed man? You can't claim the moral high ground on waterboarding and think it's perfectly fine to kill an unarmed man no matter how much you hate him.

 

[Foxfyre]

First, in my opinion a practice that produces intense pain, injury, maiming, and/or causes lasting ill effects to a person's body and/or mind is torture.

It should not be thrown in with practices and techniques that induce dread, fear, humiliation, or tolerable discomfort that might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, but does not cause intense pain, injury, lasting detriment to health, etc.

I think decent people do not willingly subject people to either torture or other unacceptable treatment. They don' enjoy seeing it in the movies or on TV. It dehumanizes us and makes us no better than the most cruel of animals.

So if somebody asks me, a conservative, whether I condone torture, I can unequivocably say no, I do not. And I will personally do whatever I can to ensure that torture is not the policy of our country.

However. . . .

If somebody has information that could prevent somebody committing an imminent 9/11 or otherwise kill or maim hundreds or thousands of innocent people, most especially if it was people I care about, I can honestly say I won't care what they do to him to get the information to save those people.