A-10 Warthogs to Get New Wings

[longknife]

In spite of all the reluctance, it appears the stalwart aircraft isn’t yet ready for the boneyard.

The U.S. Air Force has published its solicitation to defense companies to re-wing more than 100 A-10 Thunderbolt II close-air support mission aircraft.

The proposal, released May 25, calls for 112 wing sets and 15 additional kits over a five-year ordering period as part of the service’s A-10 Thunderbolt Advanced-Wing Continuation Kit or “ATTACK.”

The contract award is expected in fiscal 2019, the documents said.

More @ The A-10 Warthog Just Took A Major Step Towards Getting New Wings

 

[Wyatt earp]

I never could figure out why they wanted to junk it.. it was like the perfect plane built around the gun.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Air Force brass is all into cutting edge high tech super sonic aircraft.

And hated having to support the low tech subsonic A-10 dinosaur as part of their fleet. ....

 

[IsaacNewton]

Word has it that Red Bull will be the wing contractor.

 

[williepete]

I never could figure out why they wanted to junk it.. it was like the perfect plane built around the gun.

Long, long corrupt story going back to the 70's. Red headed stepchild on a good day. No one ever wanted it and once bought, no one wanted to keep it or it's mission.

Got a year and a half flying her. Fun bird. Incredible cannon.
My impression flying her is that she's like karate. Works great if your enemy cooperates like Saddam Hussein. Can't survive in a radar environment but excels in the low threat arenas which we find ourselves in these days.

I'd like to see a clean sheet design rather than an upgrade. The Hogg was a follow on to the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. I'd like to see a further evolution to the A-10 incorporating the lessons we've learned over her operational career. But that would mean big $$$.

 

[longknife]

I never could figure out why they wanted to junk it.. it was like the perfect plane built around the gun.

Long, long corrupt story going back to the 70's. Red headed stepchild on a good day. No one ever wanted it and once bought, no one wanted to keep it or it's mission.

Got a year and a half flying her. Fun bird. Incredible cannon.
My impression flying her is that she's like karate. Works great if your enemy cooperates like Saddam Hussein. Can't survive in a radar environment but excels in the low threat arenas which we find ourselves in these days.

I'd like to see a clean sheet design rather than an upgrade. The Hogg was a follow on to the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. I'd like to see a further evolution to the A-10 incorporating the lessons we've learned over her operational career. But that would mean big $$$.

Curious as to what YOU would like to see as an aircraft as per the above. What about the light ones that are designed for close air support?

 

[williepete]

In spite of all the reluctance, it appears the stalwart aircraft isn’t yet ready for the boneyard.

The U.S. Air Force has published its solicitation to defense companies to re-wing more than 100 A-10 Thunderbolt II close-air support mission aircraft.

The proposal, released May 25, calls for 112 wing sets and 15 additional kits over a five-year ordering period as part of the service’s A-10 Thunderbolt Advanced-Wing Continuation Kit or “ATTACK.”

The contract award is expected in fiscal 2019, the documents said.

More @ The A-10 Warthog Just Took A Major Step Towards Getting New Wings

That wing could be soooooooooo much better. Aerodynamics have come a long way since the 70's.

 

[007]

The nose mounted Gatling gun can only be fired in bursts, otherwise it will slow the air craft to the point of a stall.

 

[williepete]

Curious as to what YOU would like to see as an aircraft as per the above. What about the light ones that are designed for close air support?

Great discussion topic. IMHO, it always depends on the threat environment. There are low cost manned single engine turboprops on the market like the Embraer A-29 Super Tucano, and the Air Tractor OA-8 Longsword. In a low threat environment, it would do but I'd rather not go into ANY threat environment with only one engine. (I'm a coward you see and I don't want to miss happy hour back at the now defunct O-Club).

UAVs are more cost effective and lower the risk of having me miss happy hour at the club. But having been a Forward Air Controller twice, once in the OA-37B and once in the A-10, I can tell you there's nothing like a human in radio and VISUAL contact with the guys on the ground. There's nothing like the FAC being able to see from above what is going on. My biggest job as a FAC was to restrict fighters from dropping. That's when a human on the scene becomes so important.

We learned a lot from the late 40's onward with the A-1. We learned much more from the 70's onward with the A-10. We have a huge vault of knowledge and a huge population of FACs and attack pilots with combat experience to extract opinions/suggestions from for a next generation attack aircraft.

Curious as to what YOU would like to see

Sorry to have been so long winded. The A-10 is heavy, underpowered and very blunt aerodynamically. Cleaning up the airframe alone would be a great start ON A NEW DESIGN.

As blasphemous as this sounds, that wonderful, glorious Cold War GAU-8 Cannon would not be needed. The GAU 22A would suit for thin skinned vehicles but unlike the F-35, I'd put a huge, massive ammo drum to feed it so you could Brrrrrrrrrrrrt all day. I'd keep the 11 weapons hard points with two or three being wet. I'd have the rest for small PGMs or Maverick type AGMs. Air refuelable of course but with probe and drogue off a KC-130. Taking gas from a KC-10 or KC-135 in the Hogg was a *****. That would be my Christmas list.

 

[williepete]

The nose mounted Gatling gun can only be fired in bursts, otherwise it will slow the air craft to the point of a stall.

With all due respect, that's not true. It's been an urban legend passed around for years.

In a shallow, 30 degree dive, you still had to pull the power back to keep from accelerating on a gun pass. Firing the GAU-8 did not change the airspeed at all even with the power back and in such a shallow dive.

The empty weight of an A-10 is around 29,000 pounds and its maximum flying weight is around 51,000 pounds. The recoil from a 30mm gun can't push back against that kind of weight going down hill.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Getting back on subject. Yes, the wings have been approved but the funding is slow in coming. It may be a few years before the wings will be made available and the funding to have them installed will be available. I can think of some pretty good weapons systems that became still born that way. There is a time clock on all this. The Air Frames start to zero out starting in 2025. After that, the new wings are worthless. So if they don't get them installed next year or the year after that it's going to be just throwing good money after bad.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I never could figure out why they wanted to junk it.. it was like the perfect plane built around the gun.

Long, long corrupt story going back to the 70's. Red headed stepchild on a good day. No one ever wanted it and once bought, no one wanted to keep it or it's mission.

Got a year and a half flying her. Fun bird. Incredible cannon.
My impression flying her is that she's like karate. Works great if your enemy cooperates like Saddam Hussein. Can't survive in a radar environment but excels in the low threat arenas which we find ourselves in these days.

I'd like to see a clean sheet design rather than an upgrade. The Hogg was a follow on to the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. I'd like to see a further evolution to the A-10 incorporating the lessons we've learned over her operational career. But that would mean big $$$.

That's one of the best write ups I have ever seen by a Hogg pilot. And it's dead on.

I remember when the flyoff was going on between the A-7D/E and the XA-10. The rules that only internal weapons could be used. The A-7 only had an internal 20mm canon while the A-10 had the internal 30mm. That advantage easily went to the A-10. But by limiting the A-7 to internals only it left a ton of alternate weapons that could have been used including a 30mm gun pod. The A-7 could carry two of those monsters. Had they allowed the A-7 to carry the external guns there is no telling how the test would have gone. For Bribe.....er.......Economic reasons, Congress had to have the A-10 win. In the end, we had a bird the AF didn't want, lost a bird the AF wanted and we spent the next 20 years trying find a mission for the bird we didn't want. It took the A-10 almost 10 years to catch up to the A-7 in stores capability. What would have happened, during those 10 years, if we had gone to war and needed the full capability right then?

Congress keeps trying to get a flyoff between the A-10 and the F-35. I wonder what weird rules they will impose on the F-35 to completely make sure the A-10 wins? How about Internal Gun only and make it fly at 240 knots at 40 feet. That should do it.