75 years ago today: WWII begins

[Peach]

FDR caught with no strategy....wha?

I recall that day...put a libturd in my diaper I was so excited.

Just when I think that a thread is self-explanatory enough for people to know that there is no reason to flame, sure enough, some asshole comes along and flames just for the purpose of flaming.

deltex1, you just stamped on the memory of millions of people who perished in a horrible war.

Picture books have taken the place of history for too many in this nation.

 

[Vikrant]

It is almost never a good idea to idolize political leaders especially if they are tainted. That is why I was very disappointed in many members for idolizing Churchill - a man who was responsible for some grave wrongs to put it mildly.

 

[Unkotare]

...Cheney made MILLIONS...

Vice President Cheney DONATED millions to charity, while YOU made no sense.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You did a good deed posting this thread, Stat. I know you are Jewish and that you have cared deeply about what happened before, during and after WWII. I thought many people from both sides wrote many good things on your thread. Old Rocks was certainly informative with his story about his uncle working and creating ammo for war at FDR's command. Peach's comment that we never forget was very poignant and so true. We must never forget. Camp wrote some interesting comments as did Jroc and many others. It was an outstanding thread and I found myself reading page after page fascinated by all the knowledgeable people who participated!

I have my own opinion of FDR and it is probably most reflected ( minus bad words ) by Unkotare. I believe he has his finger on the pulse of exactly who FDR was. Although I've been to the Little White House in Warm Springs Georgia and toured the grounds where he spent much time with his mistress who was also his wife's secretary ( yes, he was an adulterer. Eleanor offered to give him a divorce but he feared it would harm his chance of re-election so he declined ) and there are perhaps many other things some here do not realize about FDR. His reason for enjoying Warm Springs, Ga. was said to be due to the effect the springs had on his polio affliction.

What I dislike about him most was his antisemitic mindset and the fact that he turned away a boat with close to 1000 human lives aboard who were Jewish and fleeing nazi persecution and certain death. That would be Jewish men, women and children. Now this bit of history will never leave my memory and for that I give FDR an F as a human being although I understand he was capable of doing something right a couple of times one should keep in mind that even a broken clock is capable of being right twice a day.

With that said, I will post a link to the story about how FDR turned his back on the Jews in their greatest time of trouble and whereas the State Department did apologise in this ceremony I find it too little too late with not a mention of the fact that it was due to anti semitism and FDR refusing these Jews sanctuary that they were sent to their deaths although some did survive by the divine providence of God.

State Dept. Apologizes for Turning Away Jews in WWII VIDEO Jspace News

The State Department issued an official apology to passengers of the MS St. Louis, a German steamer carrying nearly 1,000 Jewish refugees that were denied entry into the US 73 years ago.

A ceremony was held to remember those passengers, who were turned away from Cuba, America and Canada in 1939. The ship was forced back to Germany, where one-third of the refugees perished at Auschwitz.

The State Department ceremony was attended by 200 guests, including 30 Holocaust survivors. Survivors from the St. Louis were in attendance as well, sharing their story firsthand to an audience that included Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns, Foreign Service Director General Linda Thomas-Greenfield, and Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism,Hannah Rosenthal.

As part of the ceremony a play was presented, “The Trial of FDR,” which depicts the tough choices the US made during World War II. The play is expected to perform across America as an educational tool.
____________________________
I do not find that saving the lives of close to 1000 human beings would have been a tough choice at all but then again the State Department has turned insulting our intelligence into an art form.
If I had been given the opportunity to advise those who attended - I would have urged them to turn down that invitation and stay home. It is enough that the State Department and FDR were in perfect agreement to turn the Jews away therein securing their death sentences. The State Dept. should not have been given a front row seat to the lives of these people under any circumstances. Not even for 5 minutes. I find no solace in their having apologized for anything because in order to repent of something one must first admit to the facts as they were. They did not do that. They still haven't done that. In hell? They will have plenty of time to confess to all they took part in - even to their own generation and atrocities going on to this day we are not told of. ( such as Benghazi ) All for filthy lucre and a job at the State Dept. People sell their souls to hell for so little these days. A real pity.

 

[Moonglow]

Most of the US was anti Semitic during the era..anti Asian also....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No excuse, Moonglow. The State Dept and FDR made that decision to turn away the Jewish men, women and children on that boat. Almost 1000 people sent to their deaths and only by the grace of God did some survive in spite of FDR's best efforts to send them to their deaths! The people in the State Dept that took part in that decision? They are murderers. So is FDR. Alright? Cold blooded murderers.

In my eyes? FDR was a cold blooded murderer and an adulterer. The latter was a weakness and I could forgive that but to my knowledge the man never repented of his part in turning that ship away and some sources have since even tried to bury the facts on it. A person that makes a decision to take the lives of almost 1000 innocent people in order to benefit themselves must realize that when their life is over there is only one thing left. The consequences. Those are eternal and I would not wish to be FDR for all the tea in China. Or the State Dept. who assisted him.

note - the internment camps were wicked too. He was an evil man. That is the truth. Time to speak the truth. Why deny it now? It reminds me of the story of Edward Heath. He was a prime minister and even though many dozens and dozens of witnesses came forward - young men who grew up in orphanages and boys homes and said as a boy this man sodomized me - as a boy this man tortured me during a black mass - ( Edward Heath was a satanist ) - and none of these victims had even met each other but they all identified the same man in the photographs - then people in England said, oh my! We must honor the memory of this man! We cannot permit anyone to tell others what he was doing! Why not? When exactly would it be a convenient time to tell the truth about some of these monsters? So they were leaders. So what? I'm not moved by titles. Neither should anyone else be. If they were wicked? Admit it. They were wicked.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Geez, I called him out for being a dumb ass for NOT KNOWING what the 75th Anniversary was. He thinks Poland was invaded by Russia 75 years ago today. The NAZI being socialist is age old classical stupidity. This just shows that Bush92 doesn't comprehend the fundamental basics of even the major details of how the war started.

The USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression pact dumb ass. Learn your history.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

Niether side adhered to the Pact, though Stalin was stunned when Germany invaded.

But they carved up Poland.

Details... Details

It was part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The secret part.

Details... Jroc, details.... shhh...

 

[Bush92]

Geez, I called him out for being a dumb ass for NOT KNOWING what the 75th Anniversary was. He thinks Poland was invaded by Russia 75 years ago today. The NAZI being socialist is age old classical stupidity. This just shows that Bush92 doesn't comprehend the fundamental basics of even the major details of how the war started.

The USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression pact dumb ass. Learn your history.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

Niether side adhered to the Pact, though Stalin was stunned when Germany invaded.

But they carved up Poland.

Details... Details

It was part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The secret part.

Details... Jroc, details.... shhh...

I've been trying to explain this to them and they don't get it. I think their Russians who never were taught this in school.

 

[Unkotare]

few Americans could have imagined ANY US President LYING the country into war, and throwing away thousands of US lives just to play soldier and in Cheney's case receive millions in UNEARNED gains.

No need to imagine since that is not what happened.

 

[Toronado3800]

Let's say a president, of either party, threw nearly 100,000 innocent American citizens into concentration camps next week - perhaps you among them - would you call it "a terrible mistake" or would you call it something else?

Ok....If we are forced to olay teenage girl word games..I'll make you a deal.

Let's save the term "Concentration Camps" for the German version just so we have a word for it. As our camps were not in the business of plucking out fillings and selling the hair of those gassed we should use a different term as there are lots of words and letters in the language. Let's call ours "internment camps"

Regardless they should not have been imprisioned.

Regardless FDR drug every kicking and screaming Charles Lindbergh in this country into that war. In a way I bet Pearl Harbor relieved him.

 

[Camp]

If people want to learn about why internment camps really came into being they can read this little essay. It isn't an excuse, but it shows what the real motivation was and who the real culprits were, IMO.

www.fear.org/RMillerJ-A.html

 

[Statistikhengst]

Let's say a president, of either party, threw nearly 100,000 innocent American citizens into concentration camps next week - perhaps you among them - would you call it "a terrible mistake" or would you call it something else?

Ok....If we are forced to olay teenage girl word games..I'll make you a deal.

Let's save the term "Concentration Camps" for the German version just so we have a word for it. As our camps were not in the business of plucking out fillings and selling the hair of those gassed we should use a different term as there are lots of words and letters in the language. Let's call ours "internment camps"

Regardless they should not have been imprisioned.

Regardless FDR drug every kicking and screaming Charles Lindbergh in this country into that war. In a way I bet Pearl Harbor relieved him.

Konzentrationslager (KZ)

Vernichtungslager (VL)

 

[Statistikhengst]

Geez, I called him out for being a dumb ass for NOT KNOWING what the 75th Anniversary was. He thinks Poland was invaded by Russia 75 years ago today. The NAZI being socialist is age old classical stupidity. This just shows that Bush92 doesn't comprehend the fundamental basics of even the major details of how the war started.

The USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression pact dumb ass. Learn your history.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

Niether side adhered to the Pact, though Stalin was stunned when Germany invaded.

But they carved up Poland.

Details... Details

It was part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The secret part.

Details... Jroc, details.... shhh...

I've been trying to explain this to them and they don't get it. I think their Russians who never were taught this in school.

I agree with the jist to your point: it wasn't just Nazi's Germany's aggression that started the war. Both Ribbentrop and Molotov (after whom the famous homemade bombs are now named) agreed in secret on Sept. 1, 1939 as the start date for devouring Poland. As long as Nazi-Germany got all of Schlesien and the areas between Gdansk and Schlesien, they were happy. Besides, Hitler was planning on eating the rest of the cake later, in 1941.

That being said, Germany then went on to invade and almost whip Russia as well.

So, being forced to select the worst of two evils, I select that ugly little troll with brown eyes and a real problem with his right hand.

Stalin was no choirboy, however. Best estimates are that 25,000,000 Russians died at his hand.
However, without cooperation with Stalin starting with our stepping into the war on December 7, 1941, that war would likely have lasted much longer.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Well, sometimes.

 

[Camp]

Geez, I called him out for being a dumb ass for NOT KNOWING what the 75th Anniversary was. He thinks Poland was invaded by Russia 75 years ago today. The NAZI being socialist is age old classical stupidity. This just shows that Bush92 doesn't comprehend the fundamental basics of even the major details of how the war started.

The USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression pact dumb ass. Learn your history.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

Niether side adhered to the Pact, though Stalin was stunned when Germany invaded.

But they carved up Poland.

Details... Details

It was part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The secret part.

Details... Jroc, details.... shhh...

I've been trying to explain this to them and they don't get it. I think their Russians who never were taught this in school.

No, that is what you have been doing in your mind. Actually, you have been stuck on some misinformation you have tried to promote that indicated Stalin had some kind of date specific and coordinated strategic plan of attack for Poland and he did not. They had a non-aggression pact and an agreement of how they would carve up Poland and the Baltic, but they did not have a strategic planning agreement in regards to battlefield coordination. The claim that the Polish invasion was a mutual and coordinated attack between Russia and Germany implies an alliance of military significance that never existed. It also implies that Hitler conveyed his invasion plans to Stalin and gave him some kind of heads up. In addition it ignores Russia's problem in the east with Japan and Hitler's manipulation of that particular Russian problem with his invasion of Poland. In the abstract it implies a closeness and alliance between Germany and Russia that never even came close to existing and hence leads to grossly misinformed analysis of the relationship.

fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1939pact.html

 

[Unkotare]

Let's save the term "Concentration Camps" for the German version just so we have a word for it. As our camps were not in the business of plucking out fillings and selling the hair of those gassed we should use a different term as there are lots of words and letters in the language. Let's call ours "internment camps"...

FDR called them concentration camps and that is precisely what they were. Hitler ran death camps. If the best thing you can say about that rotten piece of filth is that he wasn't as bad as Hitler, well...

 

[Unkotare]

If people want to learn about why internment camps really came into being they can read this little essay. It isn't an excuse, but it shows what the real motivation was and who the real culprits were, IMO.

www.fear.org/RMillerJ-A.html

The "real culprit" is the scumbag whose signature is on EO 9066 no matter how you try to spin it. The buck stops where?

 

[Toronado3800]

FDR called them concentration camps and that is precisely what they were. Hitler ran death camps. If the best thing you can say about that rotten piece of filth is that he wasn't as bad as Hitler, well...

If you want to call the German concentration camps something else so be it then I can agree to call the American camps concentration camps.

Did we agree FDR drug every Charles Lindbergh in America into the war? Europe and Pacific.

 

[Camp]

If people want to learn about why internment camps really came into being they can read this little essay. It isn't an excuse, but it shows what the real motivation was and who the real culprits were, IMO.

www.fear.org/RMillerJ-A.html

The "real culprit" is the scumbag whose signature is on EO 9066 no matter how you try to spin it. The buck stops where?

No, the real scumbag was the Jap that ordered the surprise attack of America at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7,1941. If that sneaky low life murdering scum hadn't done that their wouldn't have been internment camps.

 

[Unkotare]

If people want to learn about why internment camps really came into being they can read this little essay. It isn't an excuse, but it shows what the real motivation was and who the real culprits were, IMO.

www.fear.org/RMillerJ-A.html

The "real culprit" is the scumbag whose signature is on EO 9066 no matter how you try to spin it. The buck stops where?

No, the real scumbag was the Jap that ordered the surprise attack of America at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7,1941. If that sneaky low life murdering scum hadn't done that their wouldn't have been internment camps.

Your inability to hold your 'hero' accountable for what is ultimately his decision as President is almost comical at this point. democrats usually seem to have an aversion to responsibility, but yours is pathological. Talk about a shameless apologist. Wow.

 

[Camp]

If people want to learn about why internment camps really came into being they can read this little essay. It isn't an excuse, but it shows what the real motivation was and who the real culprits were, IMO.

www.fear.org/RMillerJ-A.html

The "real culprit" is the scumbag whose signature is on EO 9066 no matter how you try to spin it. The buck stops where?

No, the real scumbag was the Jap that ordered the surprise attack of America at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7,1941. If that sneaky low life murdering scum hadn't done that their wouldn't have been internment camps.

Your inability to hold your 'hero' accountable for what is ultimately his decision as President is almost comical at this point. democrats usually seem to have an aversion to responsibility, but yours is pathological. Talk about a shameless apologist. Wow.

Or perhaps I just like what he did in other areas and circumstances and understand why he would allow people on the west coast who were in a panic over the thought and belief of a Jap invasion of the west cost and allow the rounding up of all the Japs and putting them somewhere where they could be watched. Turned out to be a unwise, unfair and probably unnecessary decision to the Japs, but the idea that FDR would ignore the possible threats and the consequences of what might happen if the proponents were right would have been irresponsible.