48%...

[Oddball]

How many in that demographic end up with the kinds of chronic maladies that can cause bankruptcies to their parents?

Really...You're smarter than this.

A good number I'm sure. However, I'm taking into account adults here Dude. The children are a non-factor in the numbers at the moment. Especially since if we are using the 600,000 number of bankruptcies, we're assuming that all 600,000 were single. Once again, they could be married and have several children.

So the number of bankruptcies is not the exact number of people affected.

"A good number"?!?!?...Could you be a little more vague?

 

[Darkwind]

I'm still not seeing a crisis.....

I'm sure you would say the same about the number of Veterans who are homeless or the homeless population in general. I mean, it's only a small number in the grand scheme of things supposedly, why should we care?

You're taking the same stance that Wilson did with The Great Influenza, Reagan with the AIDS crisis, and this country today with the Financial Crisis. You are waiting for things to get out of hand before taking action.

Actually, I would NOT be calling for government to take over one-sixth of the nation's economy to fix it. I would be calling on the individual states along with private organizations in concert with the federal government to find a solution to the problem.

But then, there is also a difference between Americans caring for those who sacrificed their lives and bodies for us and those who want government to pay for their medical check-ups.

 

[Modbert]

Sinatra, get me a un-biased article, and then I might care for what you have to say.

 

[Annie]

Actually, you're off by about 93 million: Census Bureau Home Page

Okay. So, a half mil out of 307 million people. Not a crisis that I see.

_____

Just a little needed perspective here....

___

But fewer than one percent of Americans enter bankruptcy each year. Of those, only three to five percent are plausibly bankrupt due to medical debt. These numbers present the inconvenient truth that our health system is not leading to bankruptcy in America.

The Himmelstein study paints a picture of an American middle class that even with health insurance coverage is being bankrupted by health care costs. The share of bankruptcies attributable to health care costs rose by 50%between 2001 and 2007, according to the study. The message is that rising health care costs bankrupt the insured middle class as well as the uninsured lower class.

The only problem is that the study is fatally flawed. Dr. Himmelstein is a co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program, an organization that describes itself on its Web site as "the only national physician organization in the United States dedicated exclusively to implementing a single-payer national health program."[/B] An additional Harvard coauthor, Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, is co-founder and secretary of the organization. Even though the article states on the front page that the authors have no conflict of interest, two are self-declared activists for single-payer health care, and they have twisted the data to fit their cause.

Aparna Mathur, an American Enterprise Institute research fellow and another witness in the hearing, told me in a telephone conversation that "the Himmelstein surveys overstate the effect of medical debts on bankruptcy. Despite obvious problems with the survey methodology, it was clear to me during the testimony yesterday that the study was being used as a pretext for making the case for universal health insurance."

Dr. Himmelstein's study contradicts the economics literature on personal bankruptcies. Most reputable studies are based on the Survey of Consumer Finances, published by the Federal Reserve, which lists different types of consumer debt. Medical debt rose slightly from 5.5% of all debt in 2001 to 5.8% of all debt in 2007, according to the Fed.

A study by the Department of Justice examined more than 5,000 bankruptcy cases between 2000 and 2002. It found that 54% of bankruptcies involve no medical debt, and more than 90% have medical debt of less than $5,000. Even among the minority of bankruptcies that report medical debt, only a few have enough to cause personal bankruptcy.

Dr. Himmelstein gets different results because he uses a smaller sample and a different methodology than other studies. He started with a random sample of 5,251 bankruptcy petitions and wound up through a series of screenings only using 1,032. His survey assumes that when a medical problem is mentioned that associated medical costs are automatically associated with bankruptcy. In addition, anyone is counted as medically bankrupt if they cite illness or medical bills as a reason for bankruptcy, even if other debts, such as foreclosure and credit card debt, are a primary reason.

Furthermore, if respondents lost two weeks of work due to illness or injury they were counted as medically bankrupt, even if they had no medical debt. Hypothetically, someone could go into bankruptcy while on Medicare or Medicaid, even if they owed no medical bills at all.

Yet using Dr. Himmelstein's methodology, even single-payer health care would not solve the medical bankruptcy problem. People would still lose work time to illness, perhaps even more time than under the current system, because health care would be of lower quality. Under Britain's single-payer system, for example, people who think they might have swine flu are not being seen by doctors. Instead, they are asked to stay home and consult with the doctor over the phone.

More and more Americans understand that adding $1 trillion to government spending for health care reform won't fix our economic crisis. So proponents of single-payer health care bring out poor Elizabeth Edwards to justify their made-up numbers on medical bankruptcy. Shame on them.


Diana Furchtgott-Roth is a contributing editor of RealClearMarkets and an adjunct fellow at the Manhattan Institute.



RealClearMarkets - The Healthcare Bankruptcy Myth

Why is this reminding my of the emails and climate scientists?

 

[The T]

48%? Hmmm...they must not have polled all the dead people that voted...or the false names on register with acorn.

Hehehee....watch this. They gonna go apeshit now! Lolololololol

5...4...3...2...1...

 

[Modbert]

"A good number"?!?!?...Could you be a little more vague?

I don't have exact specific numbers in all cases to work with here Dude. I'm going off with what I can work with. If you want to slam me for not having exact specific numbers in all cases available, you're looking at the wrong person to slam.

 

[Darkwind]

As for that 300 million, 27.6% are under 20. People who are younger than 18 can't declare bankruptcy.

So that would leave 217,200,000 or so if I did my calculation correctly.

600,000 out of 217,200,000.

Then you have other factors to take in for which would probably end up leaving it at 200 million.

I'm still not seeing a crisis.....

You don't. He sees people dying in the streets, and massive soup lines in the streets.

Possibly because the secret DNC letters and emails are telling them that is the case.

To hear Mr. Obama speak of it, people aren't getting their ball stones removed and by god, we simply cannot have any of that!

 

[Modbert]

Actually, I would NOT be calling for government to take over one-sixth of the nation's economy to fix it. I would be calling on the individual states along with private organizations in concert with the federal government to find a solution to the problem.

But then, there is also a difference between Americans caring for those who sacrificed their lives and bodies for us and those who want government to pay for their medical check-ups.

I'm not calling for the Government to take over anything either. Now you're involving yourself in another major logical fallacy. I have never whether I am for or against "Obamacare" as some have dubbed it. I am for a feasible plan in general for real Health Care Reform.

The individual states are broke, and the private organizations are at their limit. Once again, you are out of touch with reality.

Also, trying to say I don't care for those who sacrificed their lives for us is a cheap shot you slime.

 

[The T]

I'm still not seeing a crisis.....

I'm sure you would say the same about the number of Veterans who are homeless or the homeless population in general. I mean, it's only a small number in the grand scheme of things supposedly, why should we care?

You're taking the same stance that Wilson did with The Great Influenza, Reagan with the AIDS crisis, and this country today with the Financial Crisis. You are waiting for things to get out of hand before taking action.

Actually, I would NOT be calling for government to take over one-sixth of the nation's economy to fix it. I would be calling on the individual states along with private organizations in concert with the federal government to find a solution to the problem.

But then, there is also a difference between Americans caring for those who sacrificed their lives and bodies for us and those who want government to pay for their medical check-ups.

In other words? Those whom put-up their fortunes for those that take and give nothing in return. Good dividing line, and one that is still ignored.

 

[Oddball]

"A good number"?!?!?...Could you be a little more vague?

I don't have exact specific numbers in all cases to work with here Dude. I'm going off with what I can work with. If you want to slam me for not having exact specific numbers in all cases available, you're looking at the wrong person to slam.

Of course you don't have any hard numbers or specifics here.

I believe you chastised someone else here, for pulling numbers out of their ass not too long ago?

 

[Darkwind]

Actually, I would NOT be calling for government to take over one-sixth of the nation's economy to fix it. I would be calling on the individual states along with private organizations in concert with the federal government to find a solution to the problem.

But then, there is also a difference between Americans caring for those who sacrificed their lives and bodies for us and those who want government to pay for their medical check-ups.

I'm not calling for the Government to take over anything either. Now you're involving yourself in another major logical fallacy. I have never whether I am for or against "Obamacare" as some have dubbed it. I am for a feasible plan in general for real Health Care Reform.

The individual states are broke, and the private organizations are at their limit. Once again, you are out of touch with reality.

Also, trying to say I don't care for those who sacrificed their lives for us is a cheap shot you slime.

So you are saying to Me that you do not support the health care legislation going through congress?

The States are tapped and the private organizations are strapped BECAUSE of the Federal Government. Get the Feds out of our lives and you'll find that things will begin to turn around.

In case you missed it, we are in an economic recession. That means that everyone is hurting. If we can't do what I said for the Vets in these rough financial times, how the hell can anyone justify taking over one sixth of the economy? And it is you that is misinformed. Everyone, even the left organizations, acknowledge that little bit of information.

 

[saveliberty]

Just a thought, but if health problems are forcing too many people into bankruptcy, maybe bankruptcy laws need to be changed? Before you mess with EVERYONE'S health coverage.

 

[The T]

I'm still not seeing a crisis.....

You don't. He sees people dying in the streets, and massive soup lines in the streets.

Possibly because the secret DNC letters and emails are telling them that is the case.

To hear Mr. Obama speak of it, people aren't getting their ball stones removed and by god, we simply cannot have any of that!

Yeah. Nevermind that the entire crux of the Healthscare debate lies in one of responsibility of the individual rather than what it is being touted as a right.

In that regard? It is Government's responsibility to get the Hell OUT of the way, and let the responsible individual exercise his right to that of non-government interference.

And as you know? It is Government that erected walls, that has created this crisis.

 

[The T]

Actually, I would NOT be calling for government to take over one-sixth of the nation's economy to fix it. I would be calling on the individual states along with private organizations in concert with the federal government to find a solution to the problem.

But then, there is also a difference between Americans caring for those who sacrificed their lives and bodies for us and those who want government to pay for their medical check-ups.

I'm not calling for the Government to take over anything either. Now you're involving yourself in another major logical fallacy. I have never whether I am for or against "Obamacare" as some have dubbed it. I am for a feasible plan in general for real Health Care Reform.

The individual states are broke, and the private organizations are at their limit. Once again, you are out of touch with reality.

Also, trying to say I don't care for those who sacrificed their lives for us is a cheap shot you slime.

So you are saying to Me that you do not support the health care legislation going through congress?

The States are tapped and the private organizations are strapped BECAUSE of the Federal Government. Get the Feds out of our lives and you'll find that things will begin to turn around.

In case you missed it, we are in an economic recession. That means that everyone is hurting. If we can't do what I said for the Vets in these rough financial times, how the hell can anyone justify taking over one sixth of the economy? And it is you that is misinformed. Everyone, even the left organizations, acknowledge that little bit of information.

Bingo. The objective here is to get rid of the interference. The interference IS government...

 

[Modbert]

So you are saying to Me that you do not support the health care legislation going through congress?

The States are tapped and the private organizations are strapped BECAUSE of the Federal Government. Get the Feds out of our lives and you'll find that things will begin to turn around.

In case you missed it, we are in an economic recession. That means that everyone is hurting. If we can't do what I said for the Vets in these rough financial times, how the hell can anyone justify taking over one sixth of the economy? And it is you that is misinformed. Everyone, even the left organizations, acknowledge that little bit of information.

I personally don't think any plan that has Pelosi and Reid at the helm will do any real help, no.

Also, the states are tapped and the private organizations are strapped because of the bad economy. Here in my home state, we're tapped because of the huge unemployment rate, etc.

As for the economy, that would answer your whole reason about why it's going into effect in 2012. The economy will bounce back and has begun so. Historically, the last thing to fix itself in the economy after a recession is jobs.

I am not misinformed. You were the one who said at least three times that the Census was 400 million, even if I told you twice that you were wrong. Arrogance is not your strong suit.

 

[Annie]

Just a thought, but if health problems are forcing too many people into bankruptcy, maybe bankruptcy laws need to be changed? Before you mess with EVERYONE'S health coverage.

Hey, 15% of the country either doesn't have coverage or is unhappy with it. Change is necessary! Big change. Overwhelmingly big change! So what if we add only a few million at the cost of a couple trillion? Life is good.

Well until it's not, but then it will be too late. But that is good too, for some.

 

[Darkwind]

You don't. He sees people dying in the streets, and massive soup lines in the streets.

Possibly because the secret DNC letters and emails are telling them that is the case.

To hear Mr. Obama speak of it, people aren't getting their ball stones removed and by god, we simply cannot have any of that!

Yeah. Nevermind that the entire crux of the Healthscare debate lies in one of responsibility of the individual rather than what it is being touted as a right.

In that regard? It is Government's responsibility to get the Hell OUT of the way, and let the responsible individual exercise his right to that of non-government interference.

And as you know? It is Government that erected walls, that has created this crisis.

Aye. Except that there is no crisis. Just the perception of one fostered by those who have a vested interest in making sure we are panicked enough to support this take over.

 

[Darkwind]

"A good number"?!?!?...Could you be a little more vague?

I don't have exact specific numbers in all cases to work with here Dude. I'm going off with what I can work with. If you want to slam me for not having exact specific numbers in all cases available, you're looking at the wrong person to slam.

Of course you don't have any hard numbers or specifics here.

I believe you chastised someone else here, for pulling numbers out of their ass not too long ago?

Thanks Man. I should have double checked that number. Thats what happens when you get into the heat of a discussion and go from something you read a few years back.

 

[Modbert]

Just a thought, but if health problems are forcing too many people into bankruptcy, maybe bankruptcy laws need to be changed? Before you mess with EVERYONE'S health coverage.

Funny you bring that up.

Senate Passes Bill To Restrict Bankruptcy (washingtonpost.com)

 

[Modbert]

Of course you don't have any hard numbers or specifics here.

I believe you chastised someone else here, for pulling numbers out of their ass not too long ago?

Except I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. Difference between using statistics that are not too specific and getting the population of the U.S wrong.