4 Guns Bills Fail in Senate; Democrats Trying to Blame Republicans

[2aguy]

Not really

When two thirds of all murders are done with a gun, we have a gun problem
When two thirds of all murders are done with a club or a knife, we need to do something about clubs and knives

No.....90% of the shooters are criminals released from jail by democrat judges, politicians and prosecutors....we have a democrat/criminal problem, not a gun problem.

 

[2aguy]

Pulse, Olando. 300 people, 49 dead, one shooter.
How many people tackled the shooter?

How many people tackled the shooter in Tucson?

You avoided the question.
Again.
No one wonders why.

Because you're trying to change the subject to something that doesn't matter.?

YOU brought up tackling people while they reload, not me.

Pulse, Olando. 300 people, 49 dead, one shooter.
How many people tackled the shooter?

Go ahead - avoid the question.
Again.
No one will wonder why.

We already know the answer. So what? So if one shooter isn't tackled while reloading that proves what?

The fact is, one was tackled while trying to reload. So a shooter having to reload did save lives in AZ.

Again, we aren't even trying to eliminate all future shootings. Just limit the carnage.

That's why you won't answer me when I ask if you think it's ok to own a gun that can kill 1000 people with one pull of the trigger. YOU know there is a point where guns go too far.

And you seem to be ok with machine guns being classified and highly regulated. You guys bent over and took that when they classified them as

Class III NFA Weapons / Title II Firearms

• 1) Machineguns,
• 2) Short Barreled Rifles (SBRs),
• 3) Short Barreled Shotguns (SBSs),
• 4) Suppressors,
• 5) Any Other Weapon (AOWs) and.
• 6) Destructive Devices.

Magazine changes do not save lives...that is a lie you morons keep pushing....are you referring to the Gabby Gifford's shooting? With the old lady? She didn't disarm him while he was reloading, she laid on the ground and pretended to be dead, hoping he would pass her by. Another guy, who was actually shot in the head, but only grazed, fell down, and the shooter walked past him.....the guy who was shot got up behind the shooter and smacked him with a chair....the shooter fell down in front of the woman playing dead, as several guys jumped on him....she grabbed the magazine that fell out of the weapon then, since it fell right in arms reach...you dope...

And no, you are not going to stop at a 10 round magazine....you are lying.....

The Russian Polytechnic shooter used a tube fed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun and killed 20 people and injured 40....

As to the pulse night club shooting......had someone in that bar had a gun, they could have stopped him ....how do I know....? I watched the documentary series "Active Shooter." It is either on STARZ or SHOWTIME...... they interviewed survivors of the Pulse shooting and it is obvious that had several people or just one had a gun, he would have been stopped......

 

[2aguy]

Pulse, Olando. 300 people, 49 dead, one shooter.
How many people tackled the shooter?

How many people tackled the shooter in Tucson?

You avoided the question.
Again.
No one wonders why.

Because you're trying to change the subject to something that doesn't matter.?

YOU brought up tackling people while they reload, not me.

Pulse, Olando. 300 people, 49 dead, one shooter.
How many people tackled the shooter?

Go ahead - avoid the question.
Again.
No one will wonder why.

We already know the answer. So what? So if one shooter isn't tackled while reloading that proves what?

The fact is, one was tackled while trying to reload. So a shooter having to reload did save lives in AZ.

Again, we aren't even trying to eliminate all future shootings. Just limit the carnage.

That's why you won't answer me when I ask if you think it's ok to own a gun that can kill 1000 people with one pull of the trigger. YOU know there is a point where guns go too far.

And you seem to be ok with machine guns being classified and highly regulated. You guys bent over and took that when they classified them as

Class III NFA Weapons / Title II Firearms

• 1) Machineguns,
• 2) Short Barreled Rifles (SBRs),
• 3) Short Barreled Shotguns (SBSs),
• 4) Suppressors,
• 5) Any Other Weapon (AOWs) and.
• 6) Destructive Devices.

Magazines holding more than 10 rounds have nothing to do with death rates in mass public shootings..... you just think you can get away with banning anything over that...until you then come back for the 10 round magazines.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

 

[2aguy]

No one wants to disarm victims. We want to make sure crazies don't get guns. We are too loosy goosy with guns. They need to be more regulated. Relax, you victims can keep your guns. You just can't own a gun with a 20 magazine clip. Why? Because if/when you go nuts, we don't want you taking out everyone on your block.

Too many of you nuts take out everyone on your block. So your right to own a gun is infringing on our right to happiness. Ya dig?

You people talk out of both sides of your mouth but never ONCE do you show how any of these laws will stop killers from getting guns. The ONLY thing that will work is severe punishment, and stop letting them go free! Like the Philly shooter that was a multiple convicted felon and yet he got guns. No law stopped him, but you people never want to address that. Why is that? No, all you want to do is make the law-abiding less safe and continue releasing violent criminals. As tired as I have become of hearing about defenseless helpless people gunned down, and I'm sure you are too, it should dawn on you puppets sooner or later that making more and more people defenseless is not the answer. Gun-free zones is another stupid idea that only breeds victims.

They'll get guns. Guns that don't hold 20 bullets dummy.

Oh I see. Now your delusion is saying guns that hold less than 20 bullets can't be reloaded.

So reload

Why do we need to make it convenient for mass killers?

But we do need to make it convenient for people who are defending their lives at home, in the dark, against multiple invaders, to not be FORCED to fumble around in the dark and try to find another magazine or try to reload the spent one, which could be fatal.

See the difference?

Someone who is prepared to reload multiple times (a mass shooter) is not troubled by the action, but someone who is caught by surprise could have a serious problem.

So, no. Magazine restrictions are NOT reasonable.

NEXT.

.

Don't forget the effects of adrenaline on small motor skills, like changing a magazine...or the fact that in a lot of cases the victim is wounded at the beginning of an attack....so having 15-20 bullets in a hand gun, or 30 in a rifle means they don't have to attempt to change a magazine in the middle of a violent attack where they may already be physically compromised.....

 

[miketx]

Not really

When two thirds of all murders are done with a gun, we have a gun problem
When two thirds of all murders are done with a club or a knife, we need to do something about clubs and knives

No.....90% of the shooters are criminals released from jail by democrat judges, politicians and prosecutors....we have a democrat/criminal problem, not a gun problem.

Notice he doesn't want to do anything to criminals.

 

[2aguy]

Not really

When two thirds of all murders are done with a gun, we have a gun problem
When two thirds of all murders are done with a club or a knife, we need to do something about clubs and knives

No.....90% of the shooters are criminals released from jail by democrat judges, politicians and prosecutors....we have a democrat/criminal problem, not a gun problem.

Notice he doesn't want to do anything to criminals.

Yep..... hard to miss...everything is aimed at the people they can force to comply with the actual threat of jail........criminals don't care....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Has the "Thoughts and Prayers" strategy been abandoned?

Its not as effective as making it easier for people to defend themselves, but far more effective than anything suggested by the anti-gun loons.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Not really

When two thirds of all murders are done with a gun, we have a gun problem
When two thirds of all murders are done with a club or a knife, we need to do something about clubs and knives

No.....90% of the shooters are criminals released from jail by democrat judges, politicians and prosecutors....we have a democrat/criminal problem, not a gun problem.

Notice he doesn't want to do anything to criminals.

You mean, his ilk?

.

 

[Blues Man]

Your cartoon misses the point you stupid ****** The caption should read, "you shot 26 children. We have got to do something about semi auto guns and magazines that carry more than 10 rounds.

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children between six and seven years old, and six adult staff members.

The incident remains the deadliest mass shooting at either a high school or grade school in U.S. history and the fourth-deadliest mass shooting by a single person in U.S. history. The shooting prompted renewed debate about gun control in the United States, including proposals to make the background-check system universal, and for new federal and state gun legislation banning the sale and manufacture of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and magazines with more than ten rounds of ammunition.

The gun didn't shoot anyone all by itself did it?

 

[Blues Man]

Not really

When two thirds of all murders are done with a gun, we have a gun problem
When two thirds of all murders are done with a club or a knife, we need to do something about clubs and knives

No we have a criminal problem.

Only .0027% of guns are ever used to murder anyone.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

We aren't going to give up our guns. We're just going to stop making wmd's. Stop making bad arguments you fuckers.
What about Canada and Australia. Why don't you use them as examples?

"We aren't going to give up our guns?" Yet you insist we don't need LCM's or so called Assault weapons?

We'll address Australia and Canada AFTER you address the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment, which so far, you have shown ZERO knowledge of.

Unless you understand the INTENT of the 2nd Amendment, there is no need to discuss this topic with you.

 

[sealybobo]

How many people tackled the shooter in Tucson?

You avoided the question.
Again.
No one wonders why.

Because you're trying to change the subject to something that doesn't matter.?

YOU brought up tackling people while they reload, not me.

Pulse, Olando. 300 people, 49 dead, one shooter.
How many people tackled the shooter?

Go ahead - avoid the question.
Again.
No one will wonder why.

We already know the answer. So what? So if one shooter isn't tackled while reloading that proves what?

The fact is, one was tackled while trying to reload. So a shooter having to reload did save lives in AZ.

Again, we aren't even trying to eliminate all future shootings. Just limit the carnage.

That's why you won't answer me when I ask if you think it's ok to own a gun that can kill 1000 people with one pull of the trigger. YOU know there is a point where guns go too far.

And you seem to be ok with machine guns being classified and highly regulated. You guys bent over and took that when they classified them as

Class III NFA Weapons / Title II Firearms

• 1) Machineguns,
• 2) Short Barreled Rifles (SBRs),
• 3) Short Barreled Shotguns (SBSs),
• 4) Suppressors,
• 5) Any Other Weapon (AOWs) and.
• 6) Destructive Devices.

And you seem to be ok with machine guns being classified and highly regulated. You guys bent over and took that when they classified them as

You make a strong argument for our no-compromise stance.

We already bent over and took it up the ass. Maybe we should repeal all that shit. It did no good. It only increased gun violence.



.

When's the last time anyone was shot with a machine gun?

You want to make destructive devices legal? Freak!

 

[sealybobo]

I shoot muzzle loader, 22, crossbow, shotgun, Ruger 450 bushmaster, 410 and a 45. I own 6 guns none of them are WMD's.

Are any of those semi-auto?

and, are you demonstrating your virtue for all to see?
.

The 45 I can just pull pull pull pull the trigger until it's empty. That's the closest thing I have to a semi auto. The rest are hunting guns. Oh and the 22 is a deringer revolver.

 

[sealybobo]

This is great news

Fox News Poll: Most back gun restrictions after shootings, Trump ratings down

Fox News Poll: Most back gun restrictions after shootings, Trump ratings down

It'll make you feel good for about a week. Won't change the Trump re-election, and the next 5 years.

Well we know the Trump supporters are going to show up and we know us liberals are going to show up.

It's up to the people who usually don't show up. Women, Gays, Mexicans, Muslims and Blacks who are offended by Trump.

If blacks showed up for Hillary the way they did for Obama, Trump wouldn't be president right now.

Don't forget we aren't going to run a bad candidate like we did last time. Our next candidate will campaign in PA, WI and MI.

And if Trump causes a recession? You're done.

Trump claims the US economy is 'incredible' and far from recession — but 4 of his favorite indicators paint a different picture | Markets Insider

Several of the economic indicators the Trump administration showed off in a briefing have since fallen.

Investment in non-residential equipment, small business optimism, and purchasing manager sentiment have all seen a downtrend

That hasn't stopped the White House from continuing to praise the economy. Trump lauded it as "incredible" on Tuesday before revealing his administration was considering "various tax reductions" to stimulate consumer spending. The president stressed that any tax cut wouldn't represent an effort to invigorate a slowing economy.

"I've been thinking about payroll taxes for a long time," Trump said. "Whether or not we do it now, it's not being done because of recession."

Here are four indicators that might suggest otherwise, and what their downward trend means for the US economy:

Private non-residential fixed investment

ISM Purchasing Managers' Index

Small Business Optimism Index

Goods-producing employment

Remember Republicans said it was them who warned us about the recession that happened in 2008? Bullshit. I remember all they said the entire Bush presidency was that the economy was great. So now, here we are again, and I will not forget that Republicans denied this recession is coming. And why? Because it's Trump who is causing it to happen with his trade war with China, that he's losing.

 

[sealybobo]

We aren't going to give up our guns. We're just going to stop making wmd's. Stop making bad arguments you fuckers.
What about Canada and Australia. Why don't you use them as examples?

"We aren't going to give up our guns?" Yet you insist we don't need LCM's or so called Assault weapons?

We'll address Australia and Canada AFTER you address the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment, which so far, you have shown ZERO knowledge of.

Unless you understand the INTENT of the 2nd Amendment, there is no need to discuss this topic with you.

You're worried about your own government. I know.

Doesn't mean I want you to own a RPG or WMD.

 

[sealybobo]

Your cartoon misses the point you stupid ****** The caption should read, "you shot 26 children. We have got to do something about semi auto guns and magazines that carry more than 10 rounds.

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children between six and seven years old, and six adult staff members.

The incident remains the deadliest mass shooting at either a high school or grade school in U.S. history and the fourth-deadliest mass shooting by a single person in U.S. history. The shooting prompted renewed debate about gun control in the United States, including proposals to make the background-check system universal, and for new federal and state gun legislation banning the sale and manufacture of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and magazines with more than ten rounds of ammunition.

The gun didn't shoot anyone all by itself did it?

Sometimes they do. I just took hunter safety and shit like that does happen.

 

[miketx]

I shoot muzzle loader, 22, crossbow, shotgun, Ruger 450 bushmaster, 410 and a 45. I own 6 guns none of them are WMD's.

Are any of those semi-auto?

and, are you demonstrating your virtue for all to see?
.

The 45 I can just pull pull pull pull the trigger until it's empty. That's the closest thing I have to a semi auto. The rest are hunting guns. Oh and the 22 is a deringer revolver.

Thanks for the confession that you've never even seen a gun before.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I shoot muzzle loader, 22, crossbow, shotgun, Ruger 450 bushmaster, 410 and a 45. I own 6 guns none of them are WMD's.

First, it was "assault weapon"
The term of choice then changed to "semi-auto assault rifle"
After that, the term of choice became "weapon of war"
NOW its "WMD"

Just another example of the dishonest preying on the ignorant.

 

[sealybobo]

I shoot muzzle loader, 22, crossbow, shotgun, Ruger 450 bushmaster, 410 and a 45. I own 6 guns none of them are WMD's.

Are any of those semi-auto?

and, are you demonstrating your virtue for all to see?
.

The 45 I can just pull pull pull pull the trigger until it's empty. That's the closest thing I have to a semi auto. The rest are hunting guns. Oh and the 22 is a deringer revolver.

Thanks for the confession that you've never even seen a gun before.

Why do you say that? I just listed the 6 guns I own.

And I've been to a shooting range and got to shoot all kinds of WMD's.

 

[Blues Man]

Your cartoon misses the point you stupid ****** The caption should read, "you shot 26 children. We have got to do something about semi auto guns and magazines that carry more than 10 rounds.

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children between six and seven years old, and six adult staff members.

The incident remains the deadliest mass shooting at either a high school or grade school in U.S. history and the fourth-deadliest mass shooting by a single person in U.S. history. The shooting prompted renewed debate about gun control in the United States, including proposals to make the background-check system universal, and for new federal and state gun legislation banning the sale and manufacture of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and magazines with more than ten rounds of ammunition.

The gun didn't shoot anyone all by itself did it?

Sometimes they do. I just took hunter safety and shit like that does happen.

Really?

A gun that no one touched just went off all by itself?

FYI a delayed fire was still caused by a person pulling the trigger