2nd Amendment, Scalia and what the Founders meant: Commas, Common Sense and Justice. The question is how to interpret the comma after 'free state.'

Correct.

And the militia alone would guard against a Federal government having become tyrannical, not every citizen.

The Framers did not amend the Constitution to authorize the destruction of the Republic they just created.
During the 18th century and on into most of the 19th, American settlers on the frontiers occasionally had armed and hostile Native Americans attacking to deal with.

Sometimes on too short a notice for the "local militia" to assemble in the town square and march out to fight. Or march miles down the road to the homestead being attacked.

Amazing the depth of historical ignorance among the Left.
 
I agree that 2A should be revised, but as to what that revision would be, it would be silly for me to speculate on what shape it should take. Clearly, the 'militia' reference is an anachronism.
Funny how you avoided this part:

Given your argument - the militia is no longer necessary to preserve a free state - this 'modernization' would be fully accomplished by amending the Amendment to read:

Amendment II(A): The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Why doesn't this satisfy your complaint?
 
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Let’s actually read the history instead of just treating the Second Amendment like a magical, all-powerful incantation.
Good luck with that.
For nearly two centuries, the Supreme Court did the exact opposite of what you’re claiming.
You are lying, or speaking from ignorance - not once did the SC hold the 2nd to apply to a right necessarily associated with a person's relationship to the militia.
Look at the Miller case back in 1939.
Yes - lets!
Nowhere does the court in Miller hold, or even imply, that for Miller to enjoy the protection of the 2nd, he had to have some relationship to the militia, well-regulated or otherwise.
My position, supported.

Disagree? Copy/paste the text to the contrary.
Even further back, in nineteenth-century cases like Cruikshank and Presser, the Court viewed the amendment as a protection for state security and federalism, not an individual blank check for self-defense. In Presser, they literally upheld a state ban on citizens forming private armed groups.
Nowhere does the court in Presser or Cruikshank hold, or even imply, that for the individuals in question to enjoy to the protection of the 2nd, they had to have some relationship to the militia, well-regulated or otherwise.
My position, supported.

Disagree? Copy/paste the text to the contrary.

The idea that the right is entirely independent of the militia did not exist in Supreme Court jurisprudence until Heller in 2008.
Nowhere has the court ever held any differently; Heller overturned exactly ZERO previous SC decisions.
Heller wouldn't have been a landmark 5-to-4 decision that overturned decades of precedent...
See above - you cannot cite a single SC decision overturned by Heller.

You are inventing case law that exists nowhere in the books.

 
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We can't believe you are so stupid of history to not grasp the context.
The USA had just fought a war and gained independence because it had militias in nearly every community.

April 1775 is the real birth of the USA when local militias first exchanged shots with the British Army at battles of Concord and Lexington.

BTW, you might want to check out how ownership of arms plays out in Switzerland.
It's hard to believe that Trump has been alive for almost 1/3 of our entire countries history. 80/250 = 3
 
History and content of it's posts.
No it's the fact that I call Harry out for being one of you when he tries so desperately to pretend he doesn't.

You're a con, retired sgt is a con, you guys agree with Harry a lot right? What I thought.

Hi Harry! When's the last time you argued with these guys? Never?
 
I agree that 2A should be revised, but as to what that revision would be, it would be silly for me to speculate on what shape it should take. Clearly, the 'militia' reference is an anachronism.

I think it should be revised too.....

It should say...

The Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, you fascist assholes. This means no banning guns or their equipment...you morons.
 
Funny how you avoided this part:

Given your argument - the militia is no longer necessary to preserve a free state - this 'modernization' would be fully accomplished by amending the Amendment to read:

Amendment II(A): The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Why doesn't this satisfy your complaint?

Ok, valid point, I see what you are getting at. Ok, it's like this: Because much of today's argument on 2A, not only is irrelevant to militia, much of the argument is focused on the scope of the right, which is not defined in 2A (since no right is absolute, thus 'shall not be infringed' is not absolute, which gives rise to how we should define scope), which is why Heller exists, not only to change the militia-centric aspect of 2A, but to further define scope. 2A does not give us any hint as to what the scope of the right should be and thus it should be modernized to include at least some parameter for scope to guide us in our court rulings (which are thus left to partisanship)

Of course, if we agree on an amendment, there will be a major debate on what the parameters of scope should be but we should get the conversation at least started.
 
Because much of today's argument on 2A, not only is irrelevant to militia, much of the argument is focused on the scope of the right, which is not defined in 2A (since no right is absolute, thus 'shall not be infringed' is not absolute, which gives rise to how we should define scope), which is why Heller exists, not only to change the militia-centric aspect of 2A, but to further define scope. 2A does not give us any hint as to what the scope of the right should be and thus it should be modernized to include at least some parameter for scope to guide us in our court rulings (which are thus left to partisanship)
the intent was that all males should be armed, now it should include females.
 
the intent was that all males should be armed, now it should include females.
That's one aspect of scope. I'm sure my ideas would be far too narrow and restrictive for any right winger, so compromises will have to be made on both sides. Thing about 2A's language, arms were a part of frontier life, and i doubt the language of 2A was meant to disallow women to bear arms on their property against against intruders and attackers. Guns were are part of that universe as were cows and horses, both of which need not have been raised to a 'right'. This is why it was militia-centric, it's a military focused amendment. Since that no longer applies, it needs revision.
 
That's one aspect of scope. I'm sure my ideas would be far too narrow and restrictive for any right winger, so compromises will have to be made on both sides.
Nope. You need a new amendment and the chances of that are pretty close to zero.
 
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Nope. You need a new amendment and the chances of that are pretty close to zero.
My comment wasn't about the unrealistic aspect of it, it was about the principle of it. 2A is an anachronism as written, on that point there is no doubt.
 
Because much of today's argument on 2A, not only is irrelevant to militia, much of the argument is focused on the scope of the right, which is not defined in 2A
Like the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments, the 2nd amendment, both in terms of the right and the protection afforded to it, is defined by jurisprudence. Since 1939, said jurisprudence has gone a long way to create these definitions, and this will likely continue to be the case as the court hands down more rulings in the near future.

Thus, given your 'the militia is obsolete' argument, there's no demonstrable need to amend the text beyond "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

2A does not give us any hint as to what the scope of the right should be
You cannot be more wrong, for in its plain text, it does exactly that.
-The right of the people
-Keep and bear
-Arms
-Shall not be infringed
The court has addressed, and continues to address each of these terms, and in doing so, continues to define the scope of the right and the protection afforded to it.
and thus it should be modernized to include at least some parameter
Feel free to provide an example of such modernization, and demonstrate the necessity of therms found therein -- that is, why the change must be made, keeping in mind existing jurisprudence.
 
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I'm sure my ideas would be far too narrow and restrictive for any right winger, so compromises will have to be made on both sides.
There's zero chance the "right wing" will agree to amending the 2nd Amendment in any way you will find acceptable, and there's zero argument it has to compromise in this matter-- as it takes just 13 states to stop an amendment, the 'right wing' has more than enough power to tell you to FO, leaving you without recourse.
 
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You might try reading other items written in mid to late 18th century for comparison and context; of spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.
Language(s) change over passage of time.
Scholars have and you need to take a break.
 
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