2012 NBA Playoffs

[sealybobo]

^^^

Yes, but now Rip is old and he sucks and he has been irrelevant for at least two years. He's not going to all of the sudden be the Bulls knight in shining armor.

Other players like Ray Allen (who you mention) have stayed relevant for longer b/c of better diet, exercise and genetics. But it's good for him, that his minutes are being more measured now. Avery Bradley's emergence is a big boost to him and the C's even though his stats will go down some b/c of it.

I thought one of Rip's strongpoints was his constant moving. His endurance. But maybe he can't do it the whole game anymore? I haven't been watching him the last couple years. He was hurt most of this year. So maybe he is fresh. The older players like the shorter season, if they wouldn't have packed so many games in such a short time. So if you notice a lot of them "were injured" often this year? Those were just days off. No need to use Rip when the team was doing ok without him. If he's hurt, let him rest.

I'm hoping you are wrong. But you could have said the same thing about Chauncey when he was with Denver and you would have been right. He choked. Can't win another one. And then he got hurt right away with the Clippers? He's definately done. I hope Rip has one more in him.

Or Ben Wallace. You could tell he lost it when the Pistons traded him but he still played for a few more years. Good enough to play but not gonna win you a championship ever again.

Sheed knew when to walk away.

I was hoping Grant Hill would win one a couple years ago with Phoenix. But of course he didn't.

I'm always happy for great players when/if they finally win a championship. For example, Alonzo Mourning. He was lucky enough to get Shaq on his team and he didn't do it when he was the star of the team, but still he achieved his goal. And remember, if no Shaq or Gasol, no rings for Kobe. And if no Wade, no ring for Shaq either. No one does it by themselves, except Jordan. That's why he'll go down as the greatest of all time. He didn't need a Shaq. Don't give me that Pippen bullshit.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Well you already have a loss in your brackets. You said: Indiana beats Orlando - Easiest pick of all. I expect to see a sweep.

I picked Indiana too. Now can we all admit we have no ******* clue who's gonna beat who? Would you bet your life savings on any of these series? I wouldn't. Even right now Dallas seems to be handling OK so far in Oklahoma. They have been leadiing the entire game so far. Who knows what's going to happen. That's why its exciting to watch.

Maybe now that Rose is out I will watch to see if Philly can beat the Bulls, but I very much doubt that even without Rose. Hamilton will fill that void now that he is back.

We all hoped NY was going to upset Miami, but no way. And that Shumpert tore his ACL too? They are done. But even here I would not bet my life savings. You never know.

I'm optimistically pessimestic that the Bulls can still beat the Heat. And if not, maybe the Celtics can. Or Spurs or Mavs. Or Oklahoma, or even LA. I'd rather Kobe win again than see LeBron win. But right now I wouldn't even bet $100 that any one of these teams is going to win it all. I can only tell you what I hope/guess will happen.

Well, the side analysis not being spot as if I'm some sort of fortune teller, doesn't give me a loss in my bracket. A team actually losing a series busts my bracket.

But I think an Indy win is likely even still. But they cost themselves Game 1 by missing something like the last 9 shots and traveling when the game was on the line.

Hamilton sucks. I doubt he even cracks the rotation with Rose out. Philly has been awful; so who knows if they'll step up or not. But the Bulls losing Rose hurts. But not as much as you might think. The Bulls have played well w/o him. One reason would be that he is a sub par defender.

I think the Mavs exposed the Lakers last year when they swept them. I don't see them winning it all. But they already lucked out by drawing Denver and not LAC or Memphis or even Dallas in the first round.

Your post makes me wonder, who is the real MVP in the NBA. Its not Rose. Bulls almost as good without him. Duncan? How would the Spurs do without him? Kobe? Certainly not Dwight Howard because Orlando won without him. But that was only one game and it was only Indiana. BFD. But who's the Payton Manning of the NBA. The one guy the team can't do without. I say Kevin Durant. I think he's going to go down as one of the all time greats. He's amazing. Not built like LeBron but just as talented, in his own way. More Larry Brown when LeBron is more Magic.

Is it some guy on Utah or how about the Clippers? How would that team do without Griffin in the lineup? I don't know enough about the Grizzlies but I'm sure Gasol is a key player on that team.

Each team is one ankle roll away from losing a championship.

And think about how tightly taped up Rose was and he still blew out his knee. It wasn't like he went out with loose laces and no wraps. He has those braces on and everything. And yet he still blew out his knee? I hope for his sake and the Bulls he comes back next year. That is a waste of talent if he comes up a lame horse. Poor guy. But I can only feel so sorry for him because he has multi millions of dollars. I'm sure he'll find a way to get over it. He should have enough money for the rest of his life. And if not, like Tyson he will help stimulate the economy.

I'm not a big fan of the how would a team do if a player was taken away argument for MVP (though there's some merit to it). That's the fallacious argument that the media used to rape Favre of his 4th MVP and give it to Peyton Manning. Favre had a better rating and his 33-7 TD/Ints to Manning's 33-16 TD/Ints game him a 4/1 TD/int to 2/1 TD/int ratio; a glaring discrepancy.

But the media played the, well the Colts wouldn't be a playoff team w/o Peyton card. Who the f cares. They custom made a pass first offense with their star player in mind. And they had an inept second stringer if he went down. So Favre should be faulted for that? The Colts would have made the playoffs with Favre at the helm too.

Favre, Brees and Rodgers (who Favre beat twice that year, 09) were both more deserving and yet the media/NFL voted for their pretty boy media darling in a landslide based on that retarded argument.

And as a side note, it was Favre who regenerated interest and infused huge sums of cash into the market with his comeback even during a severe recession; so he was easily the most valuable on that front as well.

But back to basketball....which team would suffer the most if a player was taken?

Lebron James - Heat were 13-1 w/o Wade. That says something. I still think LBJ doesn't have the shot to stand up in the playoffs against a defense committed to putting the clamps on him. It's much easier in the reg season in which teams aren't game planning to shut a guy down.

Paul Pierce - He flies under the radar. There's no way the C's would be in championship contention if you took him out of the equation. They might not even make the playoffs.

Chris Paul - It's CP3 more than Griffin that makes the Clippers tick. Remember that the Clippers were losers last year with Griffin pretty much doing what he was doing. Look at the huge drop-off after the Paul left.

Kobe Bryant - Nah. Lakers do pretty fine w/o him. I think he's a necessary kog at playoff time b/c he's willing to sacrifice his ego some and let the bigs do their thing. But regular season? Nah, Kobe makes it about himself and he takes away from the team.

Tim Duncan - He's still one of the most efficient players. He'll play 25 minutes and get 15 and 9. But his FG percent is coming down some and he's not dominant like he once was. Still, hard to imagine the Spurs being more than say a 5 or 6 seed without him.

Tony Parker - I think Manu is the x-factor for the Spurs at playoff time. But for the regular season it's more often Parker carrying them on his back. He's a top 3 MVP candidate, but the emergence of Patty Mills limits how much drop-off there would be if he went out.

Jeremy Lin - The Knicks did a whole lot of winning when he was the man. Conversely they do a whole lot of losing when Carmelo is the man. I knew that that trade with Denver would result in that. They gave up extremely valuable pieces for a cancer. But who knows if the Knicks really regret it. You have to remember that they are a premier marketing company. That reality is why they haven't won since 69 despite having huge advantages.

Kevin Durant - Mmm. They wouldn't be championship contenders w/o him. But he's really just 1A. Westbrook does a lot of heavy lifting. Harden would step his game up some too. They might even develop a better inside out game if Durant was gone.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

That's why he'll go down as the greatest of all time. He didn't need a Shaq. Don't give me that Pippen bullshit.

Nobody has won a ring by themselves, but Jordan is the last person you could say did it by himself. He had five season's w/o Pippen and they were all losing seasons. Pippen was more valuable to the Bulls than Jordan. Even when Jordan left, they were a BS call from making it to a championship. There's no way Jordan would have led a Pippen-less team to a championship. The Bulls record went down just 2 games when Jordan walked away. Also, they actually improved defensively (so that greatest defender of all-time stuff is nonsense too). None of this is to say that the Bulls were not a more exciting team w/o Jordan.

 

[Article 15]

Sorry Bulls fans.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, the side analysis not being spot as if I'm some sort of fortune teller, doesn't give me a loss in my bracket. A team actually losing a series busts my bracket.

But I think an Indy win is likely even still. But they cost themselves Game 1 by missing something like the last 9 shots and traveling when the game was on the line.

Hamilton sucks. I doubt he even cracks the rotation with Rose out. Philly has been awful; so who knows if they'll step up or not. But the Bulls losing Rose hurts. But not as much as you might think. The Bulls have played well w/o him. One reason would be that he is a sub par defender.

I think the Mavs exposed the Lakers last year when they swept them. I don't see them winning it all. But they already lucked out by drawing Denver and not LAC or Memphis or even Dallas in the first round.

Your post makes me wonder, who is the real MVP in the NBA. Its not Rose. Bulls almost as good without him. Duncan? How would the Spurs do without him? Kobe? Certainly not Dwight Howard because Orlando won without him. But that was only one game and it was only Indiana. BFD. But who's the Payton Manning of the NBA. The one guy the team can't do without. I say Kevin Durant. I think he's going to go down as one of the all time greats. He's amazing. Not built like LeBron but just as talented, in his own way. More Larry Brown when LeBron is more Magic.

Is it some guy on Utah or how about the Clippers? How would that team do without Griffin in the lineup? I don't know enough about the Grizzlies but I'm sure Gasol is a key player on that team.

Each team is one ankle roll away from losing a championship.

And think about how tightly taped up Rose was and he still blew out his knee. It wasn't like he went out with loose laces and no wraps. He has those braces on and everything. And yet he still blew out his knee? I hope for his sake and the Bulls he comes back next year. That is a waste of talent if he comes up a lame horse. Poor guy. But I can only feel so sorry for him because he has multi millions of dollars. I'm sure he'll find a way to get over it. He should have enough money for the rest of his life. And if not, like Tyson he will help stimulate the economy.

I'm not a big fan of the how would a team do if a player was taken away argument for MVP (though there's some merit to it). That's the fallacious argument that the media used to rape Favre of his 4th MVP and give it to Peyton Manning. Favre had a better rating and his 33-7 TD/Ints to Manning's 33-16 TD/Ints game him a 4/1 TD/int to 2/1 TD/int ratio; a glaring discrepancy.

But the media played the, well the Colts wouldn't be a playoff team w/o Peyton card. Who the f cares. They custom made a pass first offense with their star player in mind. And they had an inept second stringer if he went down. So Favre should be faulted for that? The Colts would have made the playoffs with Favre at the helm too.

Favre, Brees and Rodgers (who Favre beat twice that year, 09) were both more deserving and yet the media/NFL voted for their pretty boy media darling in a landslide based on that retarded argument.

And as a side note, it was Favre who regenerated interest and infused huge sums of cash into the market with his comeback even during a severe recession; so he was easily the most valuable on that front as well.

But back to basketball....which team would suffer the most if a player was taken?

Lebron James - Heat were 13-1 w/o Wade. That says something. I still think LBJ doesn't have the shot to stand up in the playoffs against a defense committed to putting the clamps on him. It's much easier in the reg season in which teams aren't game planning to shut a guy down.

Paul Pierce - He flies under the radar. There's no way the C's would be in championship contention if you took him out of the equation. They might not even make the playoffs.

Chris Paul - It's CP3 more than Griffin that makes the Clippers tick. Remember that the Clippers were losers last year with Griffin pretty much doing what he was doing. Look at the huge drop-off after the Paul left.

Kobe Bryant - Nah. Lakers do pretty fine w/o him. I think he's a necessary kog at playoff time b/c he's willing to sacrifice his ego some and let the bigs do their thing. But regular season? Nah, Kobe makes it about himself and he takes away from the team.

Tim Duncan - He's still one of the most efficient players. He'll play 25 minutes and get 15 and 9. But his FG percent is coming down some and he's not dominant like he once was. Still, hard to imagine the Spurs being more than say a 5 or 6 seed without him.

Tony Parker - I think Manu is the x-factor for the Spurs at playoff time. But for the regular season it's more often Parker carrying them on his back. He's a top 3 MVP candidate, but the emergence of Patty Mills limits how much drop-off there would be if he went out.

Jeremy Lin - The Knicks did a whole lot of winning when he was the man. Conversely they do a whole lot of losing when Carmelo is the man. I knew that that trade with Denver would result in that. They gave up extremely valuable pieces for a cancer. But who knows if the Knicks really regret it. You have to remember that they are a premier marketing company. That reality is why they haven't won since 69 despite having huge advantages.

Kevin Durant - Mmm. They wouldn't be championship contenders w/o him. But he's really just 1A. Westbrook does a lot of heavy lifting. Harden would step his game up some too. They might even develop a better inside out game if Durant was gone.

I think the Heat should start LeBron and then bring Wade off the bench. Think about the bench scoring advantage they would have if they had Wade coming off the bench?

I don't think Carmelo is a champion either. I just don't see it. I hope Lin comes back even better than he was when he left. A little more control. Less turnovers.

I love the idea of the changing of the guard. When a new team emerges and its a new era. Like if OK or Chicago wins. But I don't like it when a team dominates for years like the Michael Jordan era. And I don't want to see the Celtics or Mavs or Spurs or Lakers win again. And I use to want LeBron to win up until he took his talents to Southbeach.

Now, what if LeBron wins. Then we will start talking about if he's possibly one of the greatest of all times. He is no doubt a beast. Winning at least one championship is key though. Otherwise you are nothing more than Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone. So I'm saying one championship puts LeBron instantly over Reggie Miller and Karl Malone on the alltime greats list. What say you?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Your post makes me wonder, who is the real MVP in the NBA. Its not Rose. Bulls almost as good without him. Duncan? How would the Spurs do without him? Kobe? Certainly not Dwight Howard because Orlando won without him. But that was only one game and it was only Indiana. BFD. But who's the Payton Manning of the NBA. The one guy the team can't do without. I say Kevin Durant. I think he's going to go down as one of the all time greats. He's amazing. Not built like LeBron but just as talented, in his own way. More Larry Brown when LeBron is more Magic.

Is it some guy on Utah or how about the Clippers? How would that team do without Griffin in the lineup? I don't know enough about the Grizzlies but I'm sure Gasol is a key player on that team.

Each team is one ankle roll away from losing a championship.

And think about how tightly taped up Rose was and he still blew out his knee. It wasn't like he went out with loose laces and no wraps. He has those braces on and everything. And yet he still blew out his knee? I hope for his sake and the Bulls he comes back next year. That is a waste of talent if he comes up a lame horse. Poor guy. But I can only feel so sorry for him because he has multi millions of dollars. I'm sure he'll find a way to get over it. He should have enough money for the rest of his life. And if not, like Tyson he will help stimulate the economy.

I'm not a big fan of the how would a team do if a player was taken away argument for MVP (though there's some merit to it). That's the fallacious argument that the media used to rape Favre of his 4th MVP and give it to Peyton Manning. Favre had a better rating and his 33-7 TD/Ints to Manning's 33-16 TD/Ints game him a 4/1 TD/int to 2/1 TD/int ratio; a glaring discrepancy.

But the media played the, well the Colts wouldn't be a playoff team w/o Peyton card. Who the f cares. They custom made a pass first offense with their star player in mind. And they had an inept second stringer if he went down. So Favre should be faulted for that? The Colts would have made the playoffs with Favre at the helm too.

Favre, Brees and Rodgers (who Favre beat twice that year, 09) were both more deserving and yet the media/NFL voted for their pretty boy media darling in a landslide based on that retarded argument.

And as a side note, it was Favre who regenerated interest and infused huge sums of cash into the market with his comeback even during a severe recession; so he was easily the most valuable on that front as well.

But back to basketball....which team would suffer the most if a player was taken?

Lebron James - Heat were 13-1 w/o Wade. That says something. I still think LBJ doesn't have the shot to stand up in the playoffs against a defense committed to putting the clamps on him. It's much easier in the reg season in which teams aren't game planning to shut a guy down.

Paul Pierce - He flies under the radar. There's no way the C's would be in championship contention if you took him out of the equation. They might not even make the playoffs.

Chris Paul - It's CP3 more than Griffin that makes the Clippers tick. Remember that the Clippers were losers last year with Griffin pretty much doing what he was doing. Look at the huge drop-off after the Paul left.

Kobe Bryant - Nah. Lakers do pretty fine w/o him. I think he's a necessary kog at playoff time b/c he's willing to sacrifice his ego some and let the bigs do their thing. But regular season? Nah, Kobe makes it about himself and he takes away from the team.

Tim Duncan - He's still one of the most efficient players. He'll play 25 minutes and get 15 and 9. But his FG percent is coming down some and he's not dominant like he once was. Still, hard to imagine the Spurs being more than say a 5 or 6 seed without him.

Tony Parker - I think Manu is the x-factor for the Spurs at playoff time. But for the regular season it's more often Parker carrying them on his back. He's a top 3 MVP candidate, but the emergence of Patty Mills limits how much drop-off there would be if he went out.

Jeremy Lin - The Knicks did a whole lot of winning when he was the man. Conversely they do a whole lot of losing when Carmelo is the man. I knew that that trade with Denver would result in that. They gave up extremely valuable pieces for a cancer. But who knows if the Knicks really regret it. You have to remember that they are a premier marketing company. That reality is why they haven't won since 69 despite having huge advantages.

Kevin Durant - Mmm. They wouldn't be championship contenders w/o him. But he's really just 1A. Westbrook does a lot of heavy lifting. Harden would step his game up some too. They might even develop a better inside out game if Durant was gone.

I think the Heat should start LeBron and then bring Wade off the bench. Think about the bench scoring advantage they would have if they had Wade coming off the bench?

I don't think Carmelo is a champion either. I just don't see it. I hope Lin comes back even better than he was when he left. A little more control. Less turnovers.

I love the idea of the changing of the guard. When a new team emerges and its a new era. Like if OK or Chicago wins. But I don't like it when a team dominates for years like the Michael Jordan era. And I don't want to see the Celtics or Spurs or Lakers win again. And I use to want LeBron to win up until he took his talents to Southbeach.

Now, what if LeBron wins. Then we will start talking about if he's possibly one of the greatest of all times. He is no doubt a beast. Winning at least one championship is key though. Otherwise you are nothing more than Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone. So I'm saying one championship puts LeBron instantly over Reggie Miller and Karl Malone on the alltime greats list. What say you?

Wade and LBJ need to be on the court together to have the full advantage of their athleticism. But their lack of hitting jump shots when the pressure is on could hurt them. Last year, the Mavericks just packed up the lane and they were done. That's why a team like the C's with an Avery Bradley stepping his game up, could really give the Heat fits.

Lin will always be a high turn-over guy. You have to take the good with the bad. One way to limit that, is to have another guard or forward who can take the ball up court and allow him to not commit so many turnovers in the full court. If Melo was a team player, he could be that guy. But he isn't.

I like the Spurs. They do everything the right way. Because of that, I'm not annoyed by their success. For that same reason, I wasn't annoyed by the 04 Pistons success even though I wasn't a fan like I am with the Spurs.

I'd love to see a C's/Spurs Championship finally. I've been wanting to see that since 07-08. That's a win-win for me. Most times the finals is a lose-lose for me b/c I'm a hater lol.

There's a part of me that wants to see Lebron win. But that's just the part that appreciate his talent. But really he's too much of a cocky phony bastard and I'm really rooting more for failure frankly. And even though, I joke that I'm a hater, I think a lot of people see it that way. What was that not eight championships stuff. Win one and then maybe talk. But that's the thing, if he wins one then we have to listen to him talk and nobody really wants that.

I'm in the minority. I don't measure players by championships. You do that and we have to talk about Robert Horry (seven championships) being greater than he really is.

Imagine this line-up:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Bench: Allen Iverson
Bench: Pete Maravich
Bench: Elgin Baylor
Bench: Steve Nash
Bench: Dominique Wilkins
Bench: Karl Malone
Bench: Chris Mullen

Would those guys be any better if they had 10 rings? I can give some credence to the ring argument, but it's definitely overblown. I would have to say that LBJ would not be so great if he didn't win some rings. Because when you're supposed to be the most talented player then it says something when you can't win a ring. That said, it is about the team. Magic's Lakers and Bird's C's whooped the hell out of Jordan when he tried to be a one man show.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not a big fan of the how would a team do if a player was taken away argument for MVP (though there's some merit to it). That's the fallacious argument that the media used to rape Favre of his 4th MVP and give it to Peyton Manning. Favre had a better rating and his 33-7 TD/Ints to Manning's 33-16 TD/Ints game him a 4/1 TD/int to 2/1 TD/int ratio; a glaring discrepancy.

But the media played the, well the Colts wouldn't be a playoff team w/o Peyton card. Who the f cares. They custom made a pass first offense with their star player in mind. And they had an inept second stringer if he went down. So Favre should be faulted for that? The Colts would have made the playoffs with Favre at the helm too.

Favre, Brees and Rodgers (who Favre beat twice that year, 09) were both more deserving and yet the media/NFL voted for their pretty boy media darling in a landslide based on that retarded argument.

And as a side note, it was Favre who regenerated interest and infused huge sums of cash into the market with his comeback even during a severe recession; so he was easily the most valuable on that front as well.

But back to basketball....which team would suffer the most if a player was taken?

Lebron James - Heat were 13-1 w/o Wade. That says something. I still think LBJ doesn't have the shot to stand up in the playoffs against a defense committed to putting the clamps on him. It's much easier in the reg season in which teams aren't game planning to shut a guy down.

Paul Pierce - He flies under the radar. There's no way the C's would be in championship contention if you took him out of the equation. They might not even make the playoffs.

Chris Paul - It's CP3 more than Griffin that makes the Clippers tick. Remember that the Clippers were losers last year with Griffin pretty much doing what he was doing. Look at the huge drop-off after the Paul left.

Kobe Bryant - Nah. Lakers do pretty fine w/o him. I think he's a necessary kog at playoff time b/c he's willing to sacrifice his ego some and let the bigs do their thing. But regular season? Nah, Kobe makes it about himself and he takes away from the team.

Tim Duncan - He's still one of the most efficient players. He'll play 25 minutes and get 15 and 9. But his FG percent is coming down some and he's not dominant like he once was. Still, hard to imagine the Spurs being more than say a 5 or 6 seed without him.

Tony Parker - I think Manu is the x-factor for the Spurs at playoff time. But for the regular season it's more often Parker carrying them on his back. He's a top 3 MVP candidate, but the emergence of Patty Mills limits how much drop-off there would be if he went out.

Jeremy Lin - The Knicks did a whole lot of winning when he was the man. Conversely they do a whole lot of losing when Carmelo is the man. I knew that that trade with Denver would result in that. They gave up extremely valuable pieces for a cancer. But who knows if the Knicks really regret it. You have to remember that they are a premier marketing company. That reality is why they haven't won since 69 despite having huge advantages.

Kevin Durant - Mmm. They wouldn't be championship contenders w/o him. But he's really just 1A. Westbrook does a lot of heavy lifting. Harden would step his game up some too. They might even develop a better inside out game if Durant was gone.

I think the Heat should start LeBron and then bring Wade off the bench. Think about the bench scoring advantage they would have if they had Wade coming off the bench?

I don't think Carmelo is a champion either. I just don't see it. I hope Lin comes back even better than he was when he left. A little more control. Less turnovers.

I love the idea of the changing of the guard. When a new team emerges and its a new era. Like if OK or Chicago wins. But I don't like it when a team dominates for years like the Michael Jordan era. And I don't want to see the Celtics or Spurs or Lakers win again. And I use to want LeBron to win up until he took his talents to Southbeach.

Now, what if LeBron wins. Then we will start talking about if he's possibly one of the greatest of all times. He is no doubt a beast. Winning at least one championship is key though. Otherwise you are nothing more than Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone. So I'm saying one championship puts LeBron instantly over Reggie Miller and Karl Malone on the alltime greats list. What say you?

Wade and LBJ need to be on the court together to have the full advantage of their athleticism. But their lack of hitting jump shots when the pressure is on could hurt them. Last year, the Mavericks just packed up the lane and they were done. That's why a team like the C's with an Avery Bradley stepping his game up, could really give the Heat fits.

Lin will always be a high turn-over guy. You have to take the good with the bad. One way to limit that, is to have another guard or forward who can take the ball up court and allow him to not commit so many turnovers in the full court. If Melo was a team player, he could be that guy. But he isn't.

I like the Spurs. They do everything the right way. Because of that, I'm not annoyed by their success. For that same reason, I wasn't annoyed by the 04 Pistons success even though I wasn't a fan like I am with the Spurs.

I'd love to see a C's/Spurs Championship finally. I've been wanting to see that since 07-08. That's a win-win for me. Most times the finals is a lose-lose for me b/c I'm a hater lol.

There's a part of me that wants to see Lebron win. But that's just the part that appreciate his talent. But really he's too much of a cocky phony bastard and I'm really rooting more for failure frankly. And even though, I joke that I'm a hater, I think a lot of people see it that way. What was that not eight championships stuff. Win one and then maybe talk. But that's the thing, if he wins one then we have to listen to him talk and nobody really wants that.

I'm in the minority. I don't measure players by championships. You do that and we have to talk about Robert Horry (seven championships) being greater than he really is.

Imagine this line-up:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Bench: Allen Iverson
Bench: Pete Maravich
Bench: Elgin Baylor
Bench: Steve Nash
Bench: Dominique Wilkins
Bench: Karl Malone
Bench: Chris Mullen

Would those guys be any better if they had 10 rings? I can give some credence to the ring argument, but it's definitely overblown. I would have to say that LBJ would not be so great if he didn't win some rings. Because when you're supposed to be the most talented player then it says something when you can't win a ring. That said, it is about the team. Magic's Lakers and Bird's C's whooped the hell out of Jordan when he tried to be a one man show.

You put Wade and LBJ in together at the end of the game for sure. But to start, have Wade come off the bench. Either one of them can run the team by themselves so in the beginning of the game, instead of having a starting line up and a so so bench, have a Wade coming off the bench rested when its time to give the starters a rest. Is that not a match up nightmare for other teams? Who's gonna come off the bench and handle Wade? And if they sit one guy to handle Wade, that will help LeBron's crew. They'll exploit that weakness.

I'll take this team

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Although none of them could beat Jordan. I rooted for Webber when he was with the Fab 5 and Sacramento. Who did they lose to in the Finals?

I absolutely measure players by championships. Ask me to name some great Piston's. I won't say Grant Hill or Kelly Trepuka. I will only name players that won us a championship. I know the players you listed are great, but not great enough apparently.

Don't bring up the Lakers/Celtics/Bulls era. It reminds me of when the Bulls finally beat the Bad Boys and Isaih walked off without shaking MJ's hand and that was the end of the Bad Boys. And Isaih Thomas has had bad karma ever since.

LBJ has said some very arrogant stuff. Like, all the haters when they wake up tomorrow will still be broke and miserable and he'll still be rich and famous. Or something to that extent. That was horrible. But who wouldn't let the success go to their heads? Think about how cocky and arrogant lotto winners get. And all they did was buy a ticket and get lucky. LeBron has superhero mad talent. The best of the best. My God I'd be wearing a pimp outfit to the press conferences and I'd be carrying a pimp cup. I certainly wouldn't let the fans or media phase me. But if I wanted their approval and love, I would show respect. That's what LeBron didn't do when it was time to be gracious. Now we all love to root against him.

Tony Parker is doing a great job against Utah.

 

[sealybobo]

This was back when I was rooting for Chris Webber. I went to EMU and he played for Michigan so we were big Fab 5 friends. And then I rooted for him when he lost to the Lakers.

The Kings reached the Western Conference Finals, against the defending champion Los Angeles Lakers. The Kings led the series 3–2 but eventually lost in 7 games.

The game, which the Lakers won by four, featured several disputable calls, including a late game foul on Mike Bibby--after he was bleeding from being elbowed in the nose by Kobe Bryant.

Could cheating be the reason Webber doesn't have a ring?

The Kings would go on to lose Game 7 of the series at home. Former NBA referee Tim Donaghy filed in court papers in 2008 said that Game 6 was fixed by the NBA. NBA Commissioner David Stern denied Donaghy's allegations. But of course that's what they are going to say.

In the second game of the 2003 Western Conference Semifinals against the Dallas Mavericks, Webber suffered a career-threatening knee injury while running down the lane untouched that forced him to miss nearly a year of action. After microfracture surgery, he returned for the final 23 games of the 2003–04 season, but his athleticism, agility, and mobility were never the same.

And I truly believe Chauncey Billups threw the 2005 NBA Finals. If you watch the last minutes of every game, it certainly looks deliberate. Charges, turnovers, fouls, traveling, airballs. If you were looking for it, and me and my skeptical friends were, it was obvious. Not just game 7 either.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I'll take this team

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Although none of them could beat Jordan.

You're a full fledged Jordan jocker. That team would crush any Jordan team. You realize that Jordan at his peak did not get his team to score 100 points in any 89 ECF game? And he had an opportunity to effectively close out the Pistons, up 2-1 at home and he choked.

Jordan never won til the watered down 90's when Stern had his company men on the job. I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, but you have to keep things in perspective. There are plenty teams that have been better than Jordan teams.

 

[sealybobo]

I'll take this team

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Although none of them could beat Jordan.

You're a full fledged Jordan jocker. That team would crush any Jordan team. You realize that Jordan at his peak did not get his team to score 100 points in any 89 ECF game? And he had an opportunity to effectively close out the Pistons, up 2-1 at home and he choked.

Jordan never won til the watered down 90's when Stern had his company men on the job. I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, but you have to keep things in perspective. There are plenty teams that have been better than Jordan teams.

Oh all of them vs. Jordan in one of the 6 years he won the championship? Maybe the year it was him, Pippen & Rodman. That team might have beaten those 5 guys. Jordan of course being the difference.

But I will admit, I do think Jordan is the greatest of all time. Kobe is number two. If Kobe wins one more, you could make a case they were both equally great. But I just remember seeing Kobe lose more than I remember seeing Jordan lose. Not before he won his first ring, but it seemed like Jordan won three and retired, then came back and won three and then walked away again. Then came back and was old, but I don't count that against him at all. He was old.

 

[sealybobo]

I'll take this team

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Although none of them could beat Jordan.

You're a full fledged Jordan jocker. That team would crush any Jordan team. You realize that Jordan at his peak did not get his team to score 100 points in any 89 ECF game? And he had an opportunity to effectively close out the Pistons, up 2-1 at home and he choked.

Jordan never won til the watered down 90's when Stern had his company men on the job. I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, but you have to keep things in perspective. There are plenty teams that have been better than Jordan teams.

And when I say Jordan is the greatest of all time, keep in mind I'm talking about from the 80's till now. I don't know enough about those guys in the 60's and 70's. But MJ is the best since Dr. J. Lets just put it that way.

The best big man? Wilt Chamberlan. Where is Shaq on the list? Better than Kareem? Is there a big man in the NBA that is better than Shaq? Where do you put Duncan? Or is he more a power forward? He is 7 foot. But is he more like Dirk or more like Dwight Howard? And how do you rank Dwight? What is your top 5 Jordan types and your top 5 Big men. Or top 10 if you can go that far.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not a big fan of the how would a team do if a player was taken away argument for MVP (though there's some merit to it). That's the fallacious argument that the media used to rape Favre of his 4th MVP and give it to Peyton Manning. Favre had a better rating and his 33-7 TD/Ints to Manning's 33-16 TD/Ints game him a 4/1 TD/int to 2/1 TD/int ratio; a glaring discrepancy.

But the media played the, well the Colts wouldn't be a playoff team w/o Peyton card. Who the f cares. They custom made a pass first offense with their star player in mind. And they had an inept second stringer if he went down. So Favre should be faulted for that? The Colts would have made the playoffs with Favre at the helm too.

Favre, Brees and Rodgers (who Favre beat twice that year, 09) were both more deserving and yet the media/NFL voted for their pretty boy media darling in a landslide based on that retarded argument.

And as a side note, it was Favre who regenerated interest and infused huge sums of cash into the market with his comeback even during a severe recession; so he was easily the most valuable on that front as well.

But back to basketball....which team would suffer the most if a player was taken?

Lebron James - Heat were 13-1 w/o Wade. That says something. I still think LBJ doesn't have the shot to stand up in the playoffs against a defense committed to putting the clamps on him. It's much easier in the reg season in which teams aren't game planning to shut a guy down.

Paul Pierce - He flies under the radar. There's no way the C's would be in championship contention if you took him out of the equation. They might not even make the playoffs.

Chris Paul - It's CP3 more than Griffin that makes the Clippers tick. Remember that the Clippers were losers last year with Griffin pretty much doing what he was doing. Look at the huge drop-off after the Paul left.

Kobe Bryant - Nah. Lakers do pretty fine w/o him. I think he's a necessary kog at playoff time b/c he's willing to sacrifice his ego some and let the bigs do their thing. But regular season? Nah, Kobe makes it about himself and he takes away from the team.

Tim Duncan - He's still one of the most efficient players. He'll play 25 minutes and get 15 and 9. But his FG percent is coming down some and he's not dominant like he once was. Still, hard to imagine the Spurs being more than say a 5 or 6 seed without him.

Tony Parker - I think Manu is the x-factor for the Spurs at playoff time. But for the regular season it's more often Parker carrying them on his back. He's a top 3 MVP candidate, but the emergence of Patty Mills limits how much drop-off there would be if he went out.

Jeremy Lin - The Knicks did a whole lot of winning when he was the man. Conversely they do a whole lot of losing when Carmelo is the man. I knew that that trade with Denver would result in that. They gave up extremely valuable pieces for a cancer. But who knows if the Knicks really regret it. You have to remember that they are a premier marketing company. That reality is why they haven't won since 69 despite having huge advantages.

Kevin Durant - Mmm. They wouldn't be championship contenders w/o him. But he's really just 1A. Westbrook does a lot of heavy lifting. Harden would step his game up some too. They might even develop a better inside out game if Durant was gone.

I think the Heat should start LeBron and then bring Wade off the bench. Think about the bench scoring advantage they would have if they had Wade coming off the bench?

I don't think Carmelo is a champion either. I just don't see it. I hope Lin comes back even better than he was when he left. A little more control. Less turnovers.

I love the idea of the changing of the guard. When a new team emerges and its a new era. Like if OK or Chicago wins. But I don't like it when a team dominates for years like the Michael Jordan era. And I don't want to see the Celtics or Spurs or Lakers win again. And I use to want LeBron to win up until he took his talents to Southbeach.

Now, what if LeBron wins. Then we will start talking about if he's possibly one of the greatest of all times. He is no doubt a beast. Winning at least one championship is key though. Otherwise you are nothing more than Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone. So I'm saying one championship puts LeBron instantly over Reggie Miller and Karl Malone on the alltime greats list. What say you?

Wade and LBJ need to be on the court together to have the full advantage of their athleticism. But their lack of hitting jump shots when the pressure is on could hurt them. Last year, the Mavericks just packed up the lane and they were done. That's why a team like the C's with an Avery Bradley stepping his game up, could really give the Heat fits.

Lin will always be a high turn-over guy. You have to take the good with the bad. One way to limit that, is to have another guard or forward who can take the ball up court and allow him to not commit so many turnovers in the full court. If Melo was a team player, he could be that guy. But he isn't.

I like the Spurs. They do everything the right way. Because of that, I'm not annoyed by their success. For that same reason, I wasn't annoyed by the 04 Pistons success even though I wasn't a fan like I am with the Spurs.

I'd love to see a C's/Spurs Championship finally. I've been wanting to see that since 07-08. That's a win-win for me. Most times the finals is a lose-lose for me b/c I'm a hater lol.

There's a part of me that wants to see Lebron win. But that's just the part that appreciate his talent. But really he's too much of a cocky phony bastard and I'm really rooting more for failure frankly. And even though, I joke that I'm a hater, I think a lot of people see it that way. What was that not eight championships stuff. Win one and then maybe talk. But that's the thing, if he wins one then we have to listen to him talk and nobody really wants that.

I'm in the minority. I don't measure players by championships. You do that and we have to talk about Robert Horry (seven championships) being greater than he really is.

Imagine this line-up:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
PF: Chris Webber
C: Patrick Ewing

Bench: Allen Iverson
Bench: Pete Maravich
Bench: Elgin Baylor
Bench: Steve Nash
Bench: Dominique Wilkins
Bench: Karl Malone
Bench: Chris Mullen

Would those guys be any better if they had 10 rings? I can give some credence to the ring argument, but it's definitely overblown. I would have to say that LBJ would not be so great if he didn't win some rings. Because when you're supposed to be the most talented player then it says something when you can't win a ring. That said, it is about the team. Magic's Lakers and Bird's C's whooped the hell out of Jordan when he tried to be a one man show.

Somewhere you said Jordan won in the weak 90's? Well how come none of these GREATS won in the weak 90's then?

PG: John Stockton
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Charles Barley
C: Patrick Ewing
Bench: Dominique Wilkins
Bench: Karl Malone
Bench: Chris Mullen
Alonzo Morning

MJ stopped Utah, Indiana, NY and the Heat from winning championships and that is why MJ is better than all of the names above. And why Kobe is too. And Duncan. They are winners.

I say the only reason the Houston Rockets won was because MJ took some time off. That is when the league was weak. Who did they beat? Orlando and NY? Ok the Shaq Orlando team was good, but not NY. That wasn't a great team.

And who did Kobe beat? Indiana, Philly and NJ? WEAK!

MJ beat the 2 time champ Pistons. That wasn't a soft team. Then they beat the Lakers. Were they the lakers of old? Probably not. But they beat the best.

Then they beat Clyde Drexler and the Portland Trailblazers. Pretty good team. Drexler would only win with Houston and ONLY because MJ took a break.

Then MJ beat Barkley and the Suns. That was not a weak team. Jordan was just better.

Neither were the Malone Stockton Jazz. That was a good team. I rooted for them each year to beat MJ so you can't say I am on my knees for MJ. I am now, because he earned it.

Then they beat the Supersonics. Wasn't Gary Payton on that team? Another loser. Even with Karl Malone and Shaq and Kobe he couldn't win a ring. That was 2004 when the Pistons upset them.

 

[sealybobo]

Doesn't anyone else care about the NBA? The first round has been interesting so far.

The Mavs vs Thunder matchup is great.

Orlando beat Indiana in game one.

What will happen with Chicago now that Rose is out?

The Lakers, Spurs and Heat series will be sweeps. The rest of the matchups are all interesting. Best start of a playoff I can recall in a long time.

And we haven't even seen the Clippers vs Grizzlies? I can't wait for that next!!!



And now Atlanta is beating up on the Celtics. What up with dat?

 

[High_Gravity]

West:
Spurs are going to be the surprise upset and lose in the second round. I think OK will come out of the West.

1st:
SA over UT
OK over Dallas
LAL over Denver
LAC over Mempise

2nd
LAC over SA
OK over LAL

WCF:
OK over LAC

East:
Bulls are getting no respect, but they have the best record without their best player for much of the season not to mention Deng and Hamilton were out for stretches also. But I would be dishonest to say they are going to beat Miami.

1st:
Chicago over Phil
Miami over NY
Indiana over Orl
Boston over Atl

2nd
Chicago over Bos
Miami over IN

ECF:
Miami over Chicago


NBA Champs:
OK over Miami!

1st

SA beats UT -- Possibly a sweep
OK beats Dallas -- Fun rematch, but a Dal/LAL 1st round rematch would have been more fun
Denver beats LAL -- I could be wrong; but I just don't think the Lakers are that good. Perhaps Denver's inexperience and lack of a go to player down the stretch will hurt them. But their depth and cohesion is a big plus.
Memphis beats Clippers - Chris Paul could dominate at PG and put the Clips over the edge. But the Griz have about every other advantage. I would have love to have seen a LAL/LAC four vs five match-up but oh well.

2nd

SA beats Memphis -- SA beats Memphis in 5. The Spurs are deeper and healthier and don't expect a rematch to resemble last year.
OKC beats Denver - Their chances will be even better if they play the Lakers.

WCF

SA beats OKC -- Defense, interior game and depth beats outside shooting. And the Spurs have young players who can minimize OKC's athleticism and speed.

1st

Chicago beats Philadelphia - Easy pick
Miami beats NY - I'll be rooting for the upset though. That'd be classic.
Indiana beats Orlando - Easiest pick of all. I expect to see a sweep.
Boston beats Atlanta - I heard Horford is out. That's too much of a blow. The Hawks just don't have reliable players to win a series like this.

2nd

Boston beats Chicago - Don't buy the Rose hype. These same Celts beat his Bulls a couple years ago. The Bulls are better though. Either team could win in a 6 or 7 game series.
Miami beats Indiana - Despite the talk; Indiana is the NBA's best kept secret; not Memphis. I just doubt they have the juice to finish off Miami. Don't be surprised to see this series get to Game 5 tied 2-2 though.

ECF

Boston beats Miami - They want a piece of Miami. They haven't forgotten Wade body slamming Rondo and f'ing up his elbow.

Finals

San Antonio beats Boston - The Spurs will be rested and the C's will be spent by this point. But they might be able to dig down and make the series interesting.

The way things look now Boston won't even beat Atlanta, they got their asses handed to them yesterday and now theres a chance Rondo won't even be there for game 2, it hurts me to say this because I am a Celtics fan.

 

[High_Gravity]

Well you already have a loss in your brackets. You said: Indiana beats Orlando - Easiest pick of all. I expect to see a sweep.

I picked Indiana too. Now can we all admit we have no ******* clue who's gonna beat who? Would you bet your life savings on any of these series? I wouldn't. Even right now Dallas seems to be handling OK so far in Oklahoma. They have been leadiing the entire game so far. Who knows what's going to happen. That's why its exciting to watch.

Maybe now that Rose is out I will watch to see if Philly can beat the Bulls, but I very much doubt that even without Rose. Hamilton will fill that void now that he is back.

We all hoped NY was going to upset Miami, but no way. And that Shumpert tore his ACL too? They are done. But even here I would not bet my life savings. You never know.

I'm optimistically pessimestic that the Bulls can still beat the Heat. And if not, maybe the Celtics can. Or Spurs or Mavs. Or Oklahoma, or even LA. I'd rather Kobe win again than see LeBron win. But right now I wouldn't even bet $100 that any one of these teams is going to win it all. I can only tell you what I hope/guess will happen.

Well, the side analysis not being spot as if I'm some sort of fortune teller, doesn't give me a loss in my bracket. A team actually losing a series busts my bracket.

But I think an Indy win is likely even still. But they cost themselves Game 1 by missing something like the last 9 shots and traveling when the game was on the line.

Hamilton sucks. I doubt he even cracks the rotation with Rose out. Philly has been awful; so who knows if they'll step up or not. But the Bulls losing Rose hurts. But not as much as you might think. The Bulls have played well w/o him. One reason would be that he is a sub par defender.

I think the Mavs exposed the Lakers last year when they swept them. I don't see them winning it all. But they already lucked out by drawing Denver and not LAC or Memphis or even Dallas in the first round.

Your post makes me wonder, who is the real MVP in the NBA. Its not Rose. Bulls almost as good without him. Duncan? How would the Spurs do without him? Kobe? Certainly not Dwight Howard because Orlando won without him. But that was only one game and it was only Indiana. BFD. But who's the Payton Manning of the NBA. The one guy the team can't do without. I say Kevin Durant. I think he's going to go down as one of the all time greats. He's amazing. Not built like LeBron but just as talented, in his own way. More Larry Brown when LeBron is more Magic.

Is it some guy on Utah or how about the Clippers? How would that team do without Griffin in the lineup? I don't know enough about the Grizzlies but I'm sure Gasol is a key player on that team.

Each team is one ankle roll away from losing a championship.

And think about how tightly taped up Rose was and he still blew out his knee. It wasn't like he went out with loose laces and no wraps. He has those braces on and everything. And yet he still blew out his knee? I hope for his sake and the Bulls he comes back next year. That is a waste of talent if he comes up a lame horse. Poor guy. But I can only feel so sorry for him because he has multi millions of dollars. I'm sure he'll find a way to get over it. He should have enough money for the rest of his life. And if not, like Tyson he will help stimulate the economy.

Realistically Chris Paul should get the MVP or Tony Parker but it will never happen, it will probably go to Lebron because the MVP in the NBA now has turned into a prom queen popularity type bullshit award,

 

[High_Gravity]

Doesn't anyone else care about the NBA? The first round has been interesting so far.

The Mavs vs Thunder matchup is great.

Orlando beat Indiana in game one.

What will happen with Chicago now that Rose is out?

The Lakers, Spurs and Heat series will be sweeps. The rest of the matchups are all interesting. Best start of a playoff I can recall in a long time.

And we haven't even seen the Clippers vs Grizzlies? I can't wait for that next!!!



And now Atlanta is beating up on the Celtics. What up with dat?

Atlanta is going to win the series, Boston is totally fucked.

 

[Article 15]

Atlanta is going to win the series, Boston is totally fucked.

Rondo fucked us.

 

[Article 15]

That Memphis meltdown was unreal.

 

[High_Gravity]

Atlanta is going to win the series, Boston is totally fucked.

Rondo fucked us.

We are totally fucked, the series is over imo.

 

[High_Gravity]

That Memphis meltdown was unreal.

I think they'll be ok, Chris Paul literally had to give everything he had to force a Clippers win and Caron Butler broke his hand, no way the Clippers can keep this up for 7 games.