2008 was the year man-made global warming was disproved

[glockmail]

Some sources have a political agenda, and others do not. Don't you wonder about one that is described as a "conservative think tank", especially on an issue that continues to be billed as a "liberal" idea, despite t he fact that it is a science/wishful thinking issue.

Don't you wonder about the liberal idea and their hidden agenda? Ever wonder why these same liberals are against nuclear power?

 

[glockmail]

No. As pointed out earlier, the plants are not keeping up with the amount of CO2 that we are putting into the atmosphere. And while some plants will grow faster because of the CO2, the change in weather patterns caused by the warming will more than negate the gains. In fact, already has. Our worldwide grain reserves have been steadily dwindling for the last seven years.

We also have an environmental movement in this country that is preventing us from harvesting trees, thus making room to plant new ones.

 

[Skeptik]

We also have an environmental movement in this country that is preventing us from harvesting trees, thus making room to plant new ones.

yeah, right. We're not harvesting trees to make room for new ones.

Back in the early '60s, I worked at a sawmill in the Sierras. I saw sugar pines being milled that could barely fit up the slip, logs that easily measured five feet and more in diameter. Once, we actually had to use a two man chain saw to cut a log down the middle lengthwise so that it would fit.

Today, we are milling logs that the men (no women in sawmills in those days) would have called "pecker poles", referring to their diameter in comparison to that of a certain male body part. We aren't even allowing the poor little guys to grow up before cutting them and making lumber out of them.

We are sparing a handful of specimen redwoods that took thousands of years to grow, sure. Trees are still being cut, though.

But, making tree farms out of the entire national forest and national park system would do nothing to stop global climate change, now would it?

 

[glockmail]

yeah, right. We're not harvesting trees to make room for new ones.

Back in the early '60s, I worked at a sawmill in the Sierras. I saw sugar pines being milled that could barely fit up the slip, logs that easily measured five feet and more in diameter. Once, we actually had to use a two man chain saw to cut a log down the middle lengthwise so that it would fit.

Today, we are milling logs that the men (no women in sawmills in those days) would have called "pecker poles", referring to their diameter in comparison to that of a certain male body part. We aren't even allowing the poor little guys to grow up before cutting them and making lumber out of them.

We are sparing a handful of specimen redwoods that took thousands of years to grow, sure. Trees are still being cut, though.

But, making tree farms out of the entire national forest and national park system would do nothing to stop global climate change, now would it?

Go to any lumber yard and you will see pallets of lumber from Canada, Brazille, and even Europe, but few from the US. They cut down "pecker wood" here to make OSB since trees grow fastest in their first few years, but most dimensional lumber forest are off limits due to environmental regulations. So the stuff just sits thee until there's a forest fire.

Five years ago I hiked into a designated Wilderness area of Oregon, surrounded by National Forest that the environmentalists were preventing harvests. Two weeks after I left the entire are was consumed by wildfires, including the old growth trees in the area that I hiked through.

 

[KittenKoder]

We also have an environmental movement in this country that is preventing us from harvesting trees, thus making room to plant new ones.

In spite of the fact that environazis that do this are lame, so is this argument.

 

[KittenKoder]

Go to any lumber yard and you will see pallets of lumber from Canada, Brazille, and even Europe, but few from the US. They cut down "pecker wood" here to make OSB since trees grow fastest in their first few years, but most dimensional lumber forest are off limits due to environmental regulations. So the stuff just sits thee until there's a forest fire.

Five years ago I hiked into a designated Wilderness area of Oregon, surrounded by National Forest that the environmentalists were preventing harvests. Two weeks after I left the entire are was consumed by wildfires, including the old growth trees in the area that I hiked through.

1. Look how over-cutting trees help Seattle ... oh wait it didn't. Now we have smog, yes, smog, and very few places to go hiking left.

2. You also realize that many people will buy imported wood for aesthetic reasons, right?

 

[glockmail]

In spite of the fact that environazis that do this are lame, so is this argument.

That's why you can't refute it, Because its "lame".

 

[glockmail]

1. Look how over-cutting trees help Seattle ... oh wait it didn't. Now we have smog, yes, smog, and very few places to go hiking left.

2. You also realize that many people will buy imported wood for aesthetic reasons, right?

1. Plant new ones. But your main problem is all the people who moved there from a neighboring state. Tell them to move back to California.
2. Only a small percentage of wood is used for furnishings, flooring and similar finish purposes. All of the palatalized lumber that I am referring to is dimension softwood lumber.

 

[KittenKoder]

That's why you can't refute it, Because its "lame".

Okay ... since no one else has yet to show you why it's lame, here's the thing, old growth trees process larger amounts of CO2 faster than young trees, so why would planting saplings in place of older trees help ... unless you live in some bizarro world.

 

[glockmail]

Okay ... since no one else has yet to show you why it's lame, here's the thing, old growth trees process larger amounts of CO2 faster than young trees, so why would planting saplings in place of older trees help ... unless you live in some bizarro world.

The idea is to sequester the carbon by making it into lumber, and individual trees grow slower as they get older. Bizarre, isn't it?

 

[KittenKoder]

The idea is to sequester the carbon by making it into lumber, and individual trees grow slower as they get older. Bizarre, isn't it?

Um ... did you even take any high school science at all ... that's it, I give up, your lack of understanding of even basic science is baffling at this point. While I can't stand environazis, your lack of understanding the science they are using to make matters worse will never work against them, no wonder they are still making such stupid laws, if people like you are the ones fighting against them then all is lost, the Gore Inc. will wind up stealing all our money.

 

[Old Rocks]

Go to any lumber yard and you will see pallets of lumber from Canada, Brazille, and even Europe, but few from the US. They cut down "pecker wood" here to make OSB since trees grow fastest in their first few years, but most dimensional lumber forest are off limits due to environmental regulations. So the stuff just sits thee until there's a forest fire.

Five years ago I hiked into a designated Wilderness area of Oregon, surrounded by National Forest that the environmentalists were preventing harvests. Two weeks after I left the entire are was consumed by wildfires, including the old growth trees in the area that I hiked through.

Less than 5% of our forests are old growth. The rest are second, third, or even fourth growth. Yes, we have some wilderness areas that are not allowed to be logged. That is as it should be. We need those areas to remind us what the real forests were like.

Forest fires are a fact of nature. With or without mankind. We are having more now because of the warming that is melting the snows off ealier, and drying the forests more in the summer.

I have flown over most of the Western States, and the clear cut areas, especially in Oregon and Washington, are way ahead of growth. For over twenty years I worked in sawmills. My father and uncles worked as fallers and buckers from the mid-30's to the 60's. We have pictures of my father and two uncles all sitting in the undercut of a large cedar on the Oympic Peninsula. When I quit the sawmills we had a machine called a beaver mill that would take make a 4x4 out of a pecker pole, leaving just the allowable amount of wane on all four corners. Skeptik is correct, the wood that we cut today would never have been sent to the mills in the 50's and ealier. The problem concerning the present wood supply on the West Coast is the same problem that has destroyed our economy, that is greed.

By the way, keep giving advice on logging practices in the Pacific Northwest and I will address the local environmental problems in the Carolines. With equal knowledge, I am sure.

 

[Old Rocks]

Don't you wonder about the liberal idea and their hidden agenda? Ever wonder why these same liberals are against nuclear power?

Don't you ever wonder about the consevative idea, and their not so hidden agenda. For real information concerning that, read the PNAC all the way through. The Cheney plan for a Fascist America.

The people of America are very suspicious of nuclear power because of all the Bullshit that was bandied about concerning the absolute safety and how it would make electricity so cheap that it would not be metered. Then came Three Mile Island. And the bills for the Nuke plants. It is time to develop the fourth generation reactors, and solve several problems at once. Still does not solve the problem of the cost, however.

 

[KittenKoder]

Less than 5% of our forests are old growth. The rest are second, third, or even fourth growth. Yes, we have some wilderness areas that are not allowed to be logged. That is as it should be. We need those areas to remind us what the real forests were like.

Forest fires are a fact of nature. With or without mankind. We are having more now because of the warming that is melting the snows off ealier, and drying the forests more in the summer.

I have flown over most of the Western States, and the clear cut areas, especially in Oregon and Washington, are way ahead of growth. For over twenty years I worked in sawmills. My father and uncles worked as fallers and buckers from the mid-30's to the 60's. We have pictures of my father and two uncles all sitting in the undercut of a large cedar on the Oympic Peninsula. When I quit the sawmills we had a machine called a beaver mill that would take make a 4x4 out of a pecker pole, leaving just the allowable amount of wane on all four corners. Skeptik is correct, the wood that we cut today would never have been sent to the mills in the 50's and ealier. The problem concerning the present wood supply on the West Coast is the same problem that has destroyed our economy, that is greed.

By the way, keep giving advice on logging practices in the Pacific Northwest and I will address the local environmental problems in the Carolines. With equal knowledge, I am sure.

Here's something that gets me, natural fires occur to burn away all the dead matter to make it more easily returned to the soil, a natural part of the cycle. The forest fires in California keep getting worse each year, but they ALWAYS put them out ... why haven't they made the connection yet and just let them burn?

 

[Old Rocks]

Here's something that gets me, natural fires occur to burn away all the dead matter to make it more easily returned to the soil, a natural part of the cycle. The forest fires in California keep getting worse each year, but they ALWAYS put them out ... why haven't they made the connection yet and just let them burn?

The problem there, Kitten, is that the 'forests' are what we would consider large brush, and there are houses built all through them. Not only that, many of the houses have shake roofs. That was considered the height of fashion for a while in Southern California. In that climate, one might just as well roof with gasoline.

 

[KittenKoder]

The problem there, Kitten, is that the 'forests' are what we would consider large brush, and there are houses built all through them. Not only that, many of the houses have shake roofs. That was considered the height of fashion for a while in Southern California. In that climate, one might just as well roof with gasoline.

LOL .. still, it shows they do need to rethink their strategy for fighting wild fires since it keeps getting worse each year, at least that would be the logical way to think.

 

[Skeptik]

Go to any lumber yard and you will see pallets of lumber from Canada, Brazille, and even Europe, but few from the US. They cut down "pecker wood" here to make OSB since trees grow fastest in their first few years, but most dimensional lumber forest are off limits due to environmental regulations. So the stuff just sits thee until there's a forest fire.

Five years ago I hiked into a designated Wilderness area of Oregon, surrounded by National Forest that the environmentalists were preventing harvests. Two weeks after I left the entire are was consumed by wildfires, including the old growth trees in the area that I hiked through.

How much of that foreign lumber came from logs harvested in the US? One reason that the sawmills are shutting down is that it's cheaper to send raw logs to Mexico, where they can pay workers $5 a day and dump their waste in the nearest stream, than it is to mill them in the USA.

If your story of the wilderness area in Oregon is correct, then the management was lacking. Old growth timber, by definition, has grown for hundreds of years, and no wildfires large enough to consume them burned in that time. If all fires are suppressed, and fuel allowed to accumulate, that is hardly what the "environmentalists" have been telling us should be done.

 

[garyd]

Given that warming periods for the last 2 million years or so have largely been beneficial and that cold periods have usually been disasters. why is everyone worried about warming?

 

[Old Rocks]

Given that warming periods for the last 2 million years or so have largely been beneficial and that cold periods have usually been disasters. why is everyone worried about warming?

OK, Gary, carrying you logic forward, 120,000 years ago the CO2 level hit 300 ppm. The sea level was about 20 feet higher than today. So, since we are now at 387 ppm, and there is an inertial lag before the amount of added heat does it's work, an additional 20 feet of sea level today is going to do the worlds ports a great deal of good, right? And how much of the world's agriculture is at that level? Possibly you should think of consequences before you make blanket statements.

 

[garyd]

And 1200 years ago it was significantly warmer than it is today and recent Geological studies indicate that was a world wide impact not just a European affair as they were growing grapes in northern German and grapevines grew wild as far north as Nova scotia hence the term Vinland. And sea levels if anything were slightly lower. CO2 isn't the prime mover or even a close second. We don't have enough extra CO2 in the air to explain The more than doubling of the human population since 1950 and the huge increase in the number of herd animals and attempts to explain that as with the trivial well living thiongs just stay in balance is freaking silly.