2 students stabbed...in community college gun free...killing zone...

[Lonestar_logic]

What exactly is your argument then?

The op suggested that schools are killing grounds because of no guns allowed, I disagree.

Actually, they are.....if there were armed and trained people on site it would cut down on the number of deaths and injuries...they compared the numbers of injuries and deaths when the police stopped these attacks vs. someone on the scene...the people on the scene ended the attacks faster, and saved more lives doing so.....and those with guns were even more effective.....

I'm pretty sure there is less shootings in gun free zones and fewer accidental shootings.

Except when the killers start shooting........

With over 320 million guns in circulation....how do you figure that accidents with 6-700 gun deaths a year are a problem......that is actually amazing that with all those gun there are so few accidental deaths....compared to cars and pools.....and then you actually have over 11.1 million people in America carrying guns for self defense.....and only 6-700 accidental deaths combined.....pretty amazing...and that number is coming down........

Not that many killers are ever stopped by the gun wielding good guy. And some times the good guy gets killed too.

Yes more guns than there are hands to hold them. 17000 people shot each year accidently. They are more dangerous than cars if you look at hours used. And drownings are mostly children. Give guns to kids and the numbers will go way up.

The more you argue the weaker your argument gets.

 

[2aguy]

even if your number is correct....and that is an if.....17,000 out of over 320 million.....amazing, and only 6-700 deaths....again....amazing how small a number that is.......

 

[Lonestar_logic]

10?
Is that the number of firearms you own?
Why do you own so many?
What do you need them for?

I'm keeping them out of criminal hands. They are for shooting, not a need.

Actually you do need them. Hard to shoot without one.

Eh I've been renting the last few times. No cleaning and get to try new things.

So saying you owned ten guns was a lie?
Saying you are keeping them out of the hands of criminals is another lie?
Your credibility is on thin ice.

No you moron. Instead of bringing my guns I have rented. Where did you come up with that crap?

So you own guns, but don't use them. Yea, that's believable.............NOT

 

[Brain357]

The op suggested that schools are killing grounds because of no guns allowed, I disagree.

Actually, they are.....if there were armed and trained people on site it would cut down on the number of deaths and injuries...they compared the numbers of injuries and deaths when the police stopped these attacks vs. someone on the scene...the people on the scene ended the attacks faster, and saved more lives doing so.....and those with guns were even more effective.....

I'm pretty sure there is less shootings in gun free zones and fewer accidental shootings.

Except when the killers start shooting........

With over 320 million guns in circulation....how do you figure that accidents with 6-700 gun deaths a year are a problem......that is actually amazing that with all those gun there are so few accidental deaths....compared to cars and pools.....and then you actually have over 11.1 million people in America carrying guns for self defense.....and only 6-700 accidental deaths combined.....pretty amazing...and that number is coming down........

Not that many killers are ever stopped by the gun wielding good guy. And some times the good guy gets killed too.

Yes more guns than there are hands to hold them. 17000 people shot each year accidently. They are more dangerous than cars if you look at hours used. And drownings are mostly children. Give guns to kids and the numbers will go way up.

The more you argue the weaker your argument gets.

Then you can't read very well.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Actually, they are.....if there were armed and trained people on site it would cut down on the number of deaths and injuries...they compared the numbers of injuries and deaths when the police stopped these attacks vs. someone on the scene...the people on the scene ended the attacks faster, and saved more lives doing so.....and those with guns were even more effective.....

I'm pretty sure there is less shootings in gun free zones and fewer accidental shootings.

Except when the killers start shooting........

With over 320 million guns in circulation....how do you figure that accidents with 6-700 gun deaths a year are a problem......that is actually amazing that with all those gun there are so few accidental deaths....compared to cars and pools.....and then you actually have over 11.1 million people in America carrying guns for self defense.....and only 6-700 accidental deaths combined.....pretty amazing...and that number is coming down........

Not that many killers are ever stopped by the gun wielding good guy. And some times the good guy gets killed too.

Yes more guns than there are hands to hold them. 17000 people shot each year accidently. They are more dangerous than cars if you look at hours used. And drownings are mostly children. Give guns to kids and the numbers will go way up.

The more you argue the weaker your argument gets.

Then you can't read very well.

I read perfectly and I see you flailing away like a fish out of water.

 

[Brain357]

I'm keeping them out of criminal hands. They are for shooting, not a need.

Actually you do need them. Hard to shoot without one.

Eh I've been renting the last few times. No cleaning and get to try new things.

So saying you owned ten guns was a lie?
Saying you are keeping them out of the hands of criminals is another lie?
Your credibility is on thin ice.

No you moron. Instead of bringing my guns I have rented. Where did you come up with that crap?

So you own guns, but don't use them. Yea, that's believable.............NOT

Renting saves me from cleaning them and get to try different ones like I already mentioned. So I don't need to own to shoot. Didn't say I never shoot the ones I own.

 

[Brain357]

even if your number is correct....and that is an if.....17,000 out of over 320 million.....amazing, and only 6-700 deaths....again....amazing how small a number that is.......

Like I memtioned before. If terrorists killed 600 people it would be a horrible tragedy.

 

[Brain357]

I'm pretty sure there is less shootings in gun free zones and fewer accidental shootings.

Except when the killers start shooting........

With over 320 million guns in circulation....how do you figure that accidents with 6-700 gun deaths a year are a problem......that is actually amazing that with all those gun there are so few accidental deaths....compared to cars and pools.....and then you actually have over 11.1 million people in America carrying guns for self defense.....and only 6-700 accidental deaths combined.....pretty amazing...and that number is coming down........

Not that many killers are ever stopped by the gun wielding good guy. And some times the good guy gets killed too.

Yes more guns than there are hands to hold them. 17000 people shot each year accidently. They are more dangerous than cars if you look at hours used. And drownings are mostly children. Give guns to kids and the numbers will go way up.

The more you argue the weaker your argument gets.

Then you can't read very well.

I read perfectly and I see you flailing away like a fish out of water.

Really? Do you think there are more shootings in gun free zones? Last I checked most shootings are gangs out in the street.

 

[Nosmo King]

Ah! Guns! The answer to and cause of all our problems. Adding more guns could only serve to make it safer, right? Until a two year old shoots his Mom in a WalMart or some chick stashes her rod in her bra and shoots herself, or a knucklehead cleans a loaded gun and shoots himself or a family member, or a vigilante fires into a crowd to 'protect' them from a shooter.

 

[Brain357]

600 innocent people killed in accidents and only 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Add guns to gun free zones and there will be 3 accidental deaths for every criminal.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Actually you do need them. Hard to shoot without one.

Eh I've been renting the last few times. No cleaning and get to try new things.

So saying you owned ten guns was a lie?
Saying you are keeping them out of the hands of criminals is another lie?
Your credibility is on thin ice.

No you moron. Instead of bringing my guns I have rented. Where did you come up with that crap?

So you own guns, but don't use them. Yea, that's believable.............NOT

Renting saves me from cleaning them and get to try different ones like I already mentioned. So I don't need to own to shoot. Didn't say I never shoot the ones I own.

Admit your a lying POS and be done with it.

 

[Brain357]

Eh I've been renting the last few times. No cleaning and get to try new things.

So saying you owned ten guns was a lie?
Saying you are keeping them out of the hands of criminals is another lie?
Your credibility is on thin ice.

No you moron. Instead of bringing my guns I have rented. Where did you come up with that crap?

So you own guns, but don't use them. Yea, that's believable.............NOT

Renting saves me from cleaning them and get to try different ones like I already mentioned. So I don't need to own to shoot. Didn't say I never shoot the ones I own.

Admit your a lying POS and be done with it.

Haha. You aren't very smart.

 

[Brain357]

There are only about 14,000 murders each year. With 17,000 accidental shootings I'm more likely to be accidently shot than purposely killed by a criminal.

 

[2aguy]

600 innocent people killed in accidents and only 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Add guns to gun free zones and there will be 3 accidental deaths for every criminal.

Brain....as usual you are not looking at the right number...the right number is over 320 million guns in private hands and only 6-700 accidental gun deaths a year....take away the ones that involve alcohol, or drugs....and it is lower...

So what if only 230 criminals are killed....over 1.6 million violent crimes are stopped and lives are saved with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.......those are the numbers you need to compare....

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Guns! The answer to and cause of all our problems. Adding more guns could only serve to make it safer, right? Until a two year old shoots his Mom in a WalMart or some chick stashes her rod in her bra and shoots herself, or a knucklehead cleans a loaded gun and shoots himself or a family member, or a vigilante fires into a crowd to 'protect' them from a shooter.

You must be new......there are over 320 million guns in private hands in the U.S.....more now than ever before...and the gun murder rate, and the gun accident rate are going down, not up...and over 11.1 million people now carry a gun for self defense...again, with the gun murder rate and the gun accident rate going down, not up.....

And there are only 6-700 accidental gun deaths in a country with over 320 million guns.....not bad......

And over 1.6 million times a year guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives.......

 

[2aguy]

And who is getting into all of these accidents with guns......

ABC News reports on guns mislead Americans Fox News


Qoute:

The vast majority of the injuries do not involve little children, but older teenagers, including 18- and 19-year-olds (who normally would be labeled “adults”).

Consider the following statistics from the Pediatrics article:

- The injury rate for black males 15 to 19 years old was 13 times higher than for white males.

- 84 percent of the injuries were for 15 to 19 year olds and 62 percent as a result of criminal assaults. These injuries don’t occur from young children accidentally mishandling a gun in their own home, but rather as victims of brutal crimes, often gang related.

If the study had broken down the numbers further, one would see that most of these injuries were for 17, 18, and 19-year-olds.

For example, in 2012, the Centers for Disease Control reports that 76% of firearm injuries were for those under age 20 were for 17, 18, and 19 year olds.

This is hardly the impression ABC News created by showing pictures and stories of young children while mentioning the 7,391 injuries.

So what does all this mean? If we want to reduce these injuries, we need to focus our resources on gang violence. And normal law-abiding citizens locking up their guns will not reduce gang violence.

So what about gun accidents for little children? They are extremely rare. For all children under age 10, the Centers for Disease Control reports that for 2010 (the latest year available) there were 36 accidental gun deaths, and that is out of 41 million children living in the United States.

In addition, two thirds of these accidental gun deaths involving young children are not shots fired by other little kids but rather by adult males with criminal backgrounds. Unless you send your child to play over at a criminal's home, your child is exceedingly unlikely to get shot.

Indeed, if you worry about your child's safety, you better check into other dangers lurking around the playmate's house: a swimming pool, chemicals and medications, bathtubs, water buckets, cars and bicycles.



********************************

So.....gangs again......they have more accidents with guns...the reason...probably because they can't get proper training with guns....

Why do you want gang members to not have accidents with guns brain...would you rather they use those guns to shoot innocent people.......?

 

[2aguy]

Here it is....this puts the truth to the New York times report about a survey showing gun ownership is down....the guy doing the survey stated he wants to show gun ownership is down to bolster politicians who want gun control.....

Problems with using the General Social Survey to measure gun ownership - Crime Prevention Research Center

Quote:

The GSS survey has raised concerns for some time. Here is something that John Lott wrote in his 2003 book The Bias Against Guns.

A few years ago, while I was doing research at the University of Chicago, I had lunch with Tom Smith, who is the director of the General Social Survey at the National Opinion Research Center (NORC). This private organization conducts many important national surveys for the government as well as other clients. During lunch Tom mentioned how important he thought the General Social Survey was. He felt the large drop in gun ownership implied by his survey would “make it easier for politicians to do the right thing on guns” and pass more restrictive regulations. His surveys have traditionally shown one of the lowest gun ownership rates among any of the surveys: for example, almost 20 percentage points lower than recent polling by John Zogby. . . .

Tom Smith is still the director of the GSS. It is interesting to note that both the JAMA study this week as well as Tom Smith have received funding from the Joyce Foundation, which is well known for its gun control advocacy (or see here). This discussion is definitely not saying that the Joyce Foundation funding altered their views, but just that Joyce knows the individuals who are on their side of the debate.

 

[Brain357]

600 innocent people killed in accidents and only 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Add guns to gun free zones and there will be 3 accidental deaths for every criminal.

Brain....as usual you are not looking at the right number...the right number is over 320 million guns in private hands and only 6-700 accidental gun deaths a year....take away the ones that involve alcohol, or drugs....and it is lower...

So what if only 230 criminals are killed....over 1.6 million violent crimes are stopped and lives are saved with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.......those are the numbers you need to compare....

No I am comparing deaths of innocent people in accidental shootings to the number of criminals shot and killed in defense. They are the right numbers.

As has been discussed the 1.6 million is not correct. Your debunked surveys are over 20 years old. Crime is down 30% since then. And they are not all violent crimes, your wording is very deceptive.

 

[Brain357]

And who is getting into all of these accidents with guns......

ABC News reports on guns mislead Americans Fox News


Qoute:

The vast majority of the injuries do not involve little children, but older teenagers, including 18- and 19-year-olds (who normally would be labeled “adults”).

Consider the following statistics from the Pediatrics article:

- The injury rate for black males 15 to 19 years old was 13 times higher than for white males.

- 84 percent of the injuries were for 15 to 19 year olds and 62 percent as a result of criminal assaults. These injuries don’t occur from young children accidentally mishandling a gun in their own home, but rather as victims of brutal crimes, often gang related.

If the study had broken down the numbers further, one would see that most of these injuries were for 17, 18, and 19-year-olds.

For example, in 2012, the Centers for Disease Control reports that 76% of firearm injuries were for those under age 20 were for 17, 18, and 19 year olds.

This is hardly the impression ABC News created by showing pictures and stories of young children while mentioning the 7,391 injuries.

So what does all this mean? If we want to reduce these injuries, we need to focus our resources on gang violence. And normal law-abiding citizens locking up their guns will not reduce gang violence.

So what about gun accidents for little children? They are extremely rare. For all children under age 10, the Centers for Disease Control reports that for 2010 (the latest year available) there were 36 accidental gun deaths, and that is out of 41 million children living in the United States.

In addition, two thirds of these accidental gun deaths involving young children are not shots fired by other little kids but rather by adult males with criminal backgrounds. Unless you send your child to play over at a criminal's home, your child is exceedingly unlikely to get shot.

Indeed, if you worry about your child's safety, you better check into other dangers lurking around the playmate's house: a swimming pool, chemicals and medications, bathtubs, water buckets, cars and bicycles.



********************************

So.....gangs again......they have more accidents with guns...the reason...probably because they can't get proper training with guns....

Why do you want gang members to not have accidents with guns brain...would you rather they use those guns to shoot innocent people.......?

The woman with the bra holster was in a gang? That woman shot by her 2 year old was in a gang? That young girl who killed the instructor with the uzi was in a gang? Wow.

 

[Brain357]

Here it is....this puts the truth to the New York times report about a survey showing gun ownership is down....the guy doing the survey stated he wants to show gun ownership is down to bolster politicians who want gun control.....

Problems with using the General Social Survey to measure gun ownership - Crime Prevention Research Center

Quote:

The GSS survey has raised concerns for some time. Here is something that John Lott wrote in his 2003 book The Bias Against Guns.

A few years ago, while I was doing research at the University of Chicago, I had lunch with Tom Smith, who is the director of the General Social Survey at the National Opinion Research Center (NORC). This private organization conducts many important national surveys for the government as well as other clients. During lunch Tom mentioned how important he thought the General Social Survey was. He felt the large drop in gun ownership implied by his survey would “make it easier for politicians to do the right thing on guns” and pass more restrictive regulations. His surveys have traditionally shown one of the lowest gun ownership rates among any of the surveys: for example, almost 20 percentage points lower than recent polling by John Zogby. . . .

Tom Smith is still the director of the GSS. It is interesting to note that both the JAMA study this week as well as Tom Smith have received funding from the Joyce Foundation, which is well known for its gun control advocacy (or see here). This discussion is definitely not saying that the Joyce Foundation funding altered their views, but just that Joyce knows the individuals who are on their side of the debate.

So that is why every gun nut thinks they need a 100 guns? Bring up sales to avoid gun control?