2/3 say ditch individual health care mandate

[The Rabbi]

how did self regulation of derivatives on wall street work out?
how did self regulation of the mortgage industry work out?

those markets were heavily regulated. How did that work out?

Actually apart from the heavy regulation they worked out exactly they were supposed to. People who took enormous risks figured out that "risk" means you can lose lots of money. Smart people made money, stupid people lost money. Politicians used the opportunity to reward friends and hurt enemies.

derivative were not regulated
mortgages were deregulated.

nice fail

Banks and brokerage houses are certainly regulated.
Mortgages were not deregulated.
And you missed the other points.
Gross and blatant FAIL.

 

[dblack]

derivatives were not regulated

Clinton: I Was Wrong to Listen to Wrong Advice Against Regulating Derivatives* - ABC News

STANFORD Magazine: March/April 2009 > Features > Brooksley Born

From your article:

“On derivatives, yeah I think they were wrong and I think I was wrong to take [their advice] because the argument on derivatives was that these things are expensive and sophisticated and only a handful of investors will buy them and they don’t need any extra protection, and any extra transparency. The money they’re putting up guarantees them transparency,” Clinton told me.

... so clearly, there was regulation in place. Clinton and others are now bemoaning the fact that they didn't add extra regulations. They listened to the lobbyists (you know, the same ones who finance their campaigns) and believed them when they told them it was all good.

Now try to pay attention here, because you're going to miss the point - I'm almost certain of it. When the regulatory state assumes responsibility for deciding for investors whether a given investment is too risky or not, it destroys accountability. They basically tell investors (and dealers for that matter) "it's okay, we'll go over all this and make sure your investments are safe - just don't worry your little heads about it".

This does two things. First, it causes investors to invest less prudently; they're assuming someone, some astute regulator somewhere, has looked things over and deemed them safe and sound. Second, it moves responsibility for when things do go wrong from the people involved in the transaction, to the regulators responsible for the safety of the transaction. This creates a relatively credible demand for bailouts. From the point of view of the investors, they were conned by the regulators who told them everything was on the up and up.

Going back to Clinton's regrets, from the point of view that the state should be in charge of what everyone can and cannot trade, he's right. They should have added extra regulations. But that point of view, that government should be making all these decisions for us is a fantasy. Time and time again it's been shown that centrally planned, centrally controlled economies don't work. There's no substitute for motivated investors looking out for themselves. The whole point of "regulation" is to create world where people don't have to look out for themselves, and that's why it fails.

 

[Listening]

so your actually advocating for a system in which people are left to die because they are poor? great, the right finally shows their true colors.

$11,000 hospital bill from the emergency department
$11,000 hospital bill from the emergency department

Physical assessment by the emergency resident physician came quickly followed by an EKG, chest x-ray, CT scan of the chest (“they said I might have had a blood clot”), and lab, specifically including cardiac enzymes. Mike said his only complaint was it took over five hours before he heard any news.
“Everything looks good,” said the resident. “Let me run all this past my attending and see if we can get you home.” Mike said by then his pain had been gone for hours and he relaxed by receiving the go.
When the resident returned, however, Mike said he knew something was wrong.
“Sorry Mike, but my attending thinks you need to stay for a chest pain evaluation, “ stated the resident with no hint of emotion. “Your first cardiac enzyme was normal, but he thinks you need another evaluation in six hours followed by a stress test, “ he continued.



hope your sitting on $11k if you have to go to the emergency room.

or you could just file bankruptcy
Medical Bills Cause Most Bankruptcies - NYTimes.com

or you could just be one of the 45,000 people who die due to lack of health insurance
Harvard study finds nearly 45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage | Physicians for a National Health Program

A study published online today estimates nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002.

but its ok, because those who cant afford health care are shit out of luck anyways.... let em all die right????

who provides you with that HSA and health insurance your company? how much is your actual out of pocket each month? non employer health insurance averages $300-400 a month for a healthy young adult.

O.K. This ranks with some of the more stupid things you've posted.

First, the right has never avoided this so there is no showing of true colors. Personal Responsibility means you get it lined up or you pay the consequences. End of discussion. Yes, I have 11K to pay for that and a lot more. But I buy insurance so I am not going to pay for it. I have a neighbor (a lib) who does not buy insurance and pretty much knows he can screw the system so he spends it on a boat.

Next, unless things have changed, most of those so called medical bankruptcies are for amounts less than 12,000. That is the cost of a good used car. But people figure that they don't have to pay it so they wiggle out of it. A 100K bill, I could understand (boy, I'll bet that insurance looks a whole lot better than the boat when that happens....what about that woman from Ohio who took family vacations and then griped when she could not afford chemo because she could not afford insurance.....???? There is a sucker born every minute). If you want to let people get out from under such small medical bills, be my guest.

Finally, I got a copy of the Harvard Study and wiped my ass with it. First, the assumptions are incredibly specious and the entire study came under fire when it came out. It is basically bogus. Second, start providing names. You figure the study was done a decade ago which means you have 500,000 people who have died since then. Surely you morons can produce some names. Whenever I challenge anyone to produce a list of 1000 names (out of 500K....can't be that hard), it does not happen. We shut this one down a long time ago, junior...try to keep up. And finally, from purely a statistical standpoint....45,000 against the number of people who likely die in this country each year almost becomes statistical noise. That you would quote the study shows you are still using fifth grade books (and BTW: you whined about my posting parts of Federalist Papers...you never posted one sorry assed piece of 10 and stood behind it so STFU....but I digress).

Yes, you populist lefties are so easy to trash.

You got creamed again Junior.

This is fun.

so youre apparently smarter than researchers at Harvard now........
best statement youve ever made..

you really think a study is gonna release personal information??? ok you release all your personal information to the public then. dumbshit

your a bigger idiot than you even realize..
hows it feel to get pwned over and over again? speaking of getting creamed.... you have a little something left on your chin....

And you make the Special Olympics look like Mensa.

While you might want to sit down to hear this, the study has been shown by those who are not out stumping for Obama to be a pile of what your parents served you for dinner (for being such an asshole).

This is just a smattering of what is out there.

http://healthblog.ncpa.org/does-lack-of-insurance-cause-premature-death-probably-not/

But you keep eating that brown stuff and believing what makes you more able to play with yourself at night.

Now, if you go back and read my post, jackass, I said that you (an informed and highly intellectual member of the left...........sorry) should have no problem finding these people. In ten years the study predicts 450,000 deaths. You should hav no problem finding 1,000 people. Their relatives would be hollaring to the world.

But you can't produce them. Your vaunted study tells you just where to go to look for them too.

So, why don't you get off your butt-plug and do some research and show us the names.

Otherwise, keep eating the main course.

 

[Listening]

derivatives were not regulated

Clinton: I Was Wrong to Listen to Wrong Advice Against Regulating Derivatives* - ABC News

STANFORD Magazine: March/April 2009 > Features > Brooksley Born

From your article:

“On derivatives, yeah I think they were wrong and I think I was wrong to take [their advice] because the argument on derivatives was that these things are expensive and sophisticated and only a handful of investors will buy them and they don’t need any extra protection, and any extra transparency. The money they’re putting up guarantees them transparency,” Clinton told me.

... so clearly, there was regulation in place. Clinton and others are now bemoaning the fact that they didn't add extra regulations. They listened to the lobbyists (you know, the same ones who finance their campaigns) and believed them when they told them it was all good.

Now try to pay attention here, because you're going to miss the point - I'm almost certain of it. When the regulatory state assumes responsibility for deciding for investors whether a given investment is too risky or not, it destroys accountability. They basically tell investors (and dealers for that matter) "it's okay, we'll go over all this and make sure your investments are safe - just don't worry your little heads about it".

This does two things. First, it causes investors to invest less prudently; they're assuming someone, some astute regulator somewhere, has looked things over and deemed them safe and sound. Second, it moves responsibility for when things do go wrong from the people involved in the transaction, to the regulators responsible for the safety of the transaction. This creates a relatively credible demand for bailouts. From the point of view of the investors, they were conned by the regulators who told them everything was on the up and up.

Going back to Clinton's regrets, from the point of view that the state should be in charge of what everyone can and cannot trade, he's right. They should have added extra regulations. But that point of view, that government should be making all these decisions for us is a fantasy. Time and time again it's been shown that centrally planned, centrally controlled economies don't work. There's no substitute for motivated investors looking out for themselves. The whole point of "regulation" is to create world where people don't have to look out for themselves, and that's why it fails.

You better be careful. Asswipe Syphon has a fifth grade history book and no debating skills. He's a killer when it comes to argument. I only showed him four different Federalist Papers that support Madison's approach the position of the states. He keeps making reference to one (and a fifth grade history book) to show his position of an all powerful fed, but has never posted any of it to show just what his tiny little mind is thinking.

I'm telling you. There may have been bigger dickheads on this board, but I can't think of any.

 

[Listening]

oh i can readily admit i dont know it all, i just know a hell of a lot more than you do.

wow....thats the best you got?

It must be tough being you. Dumb as nails and arrogant....all at the same time.

That is a recipe for failure...

And, of course, you will blame the successful when you fail.

im already successful at a very young age, and yes it is tough living the life i live.... real tough

Yes. And I am Bill Gates.

The only thing you are successful at is looking stupid (er....well....maybe that is what you making reference to).

 

[Syphon]

derivatives were not regulated

Clinton: I Was Wrong to Listen to Wrong Advice Against Regulating Derivatives* - ABC News

STANFORD Magazine: March/April 2009 > Features > Brooksley Born

From your article:

“On derivatives, yeah I think they were wrong and I think I was wrong to take [their advice] because the argument on derivatives was that these things are expensive and sophisticated and only a handful of investors will buy them and they don’t need any extra protection, and any extra transparency. The money they’re putting up guarantees them transparency,” Clinton told me.

... so clearly, there was regulation in place. Clinton and others are now bemoaning the fact that they didn't add extra regulations. They listened to the lobbyists (you know, the same ones who finance their campaigns) and believed them when they told them it was all good.

Now try to pay attention here, because you're going to miss the point - I'm almost certain of it. When the regulatory state assumes responsibility for deciding for investors whether a given investment is too risky or not, it destroys accountability. They basically tell investors (and dealers for that matter) "it's okay, we'll go over all this and make sure your investments are safe - just don't worry your little heads about it".

This does two things. First, it causes investors to invest less prudently; they're assuming someone, some astute regulator somewhere, has looked things over and deemed them safe and sound. Second, it moves responsibility for when things do go wrong from the people involved in the transaction, to the regulators responsible for the safety of the transaction. This creates a relatively credible demand for bailouts. From the point of view of the investors, they were conned by the regulators who told them everything was on the up and up.

Going back to Clinton's regrets, from the point of view that the state should be in charge of what everyone can and cannot trade, he's right. They should have added extra regulations. But that point of view, that government should be making all these decisions for us is a fantasy. Time and time again it's been shown that centrally planned, centrally controlled economies don't work. There's no substitute for motivated investors looking out for themselves. The whole point of "regulation" is to create world where people don't have to look out for themselves, and that's why it fails.

You better be careful. Asswipe Syphon has a fifth grade history book and no debating skills. He's a killer when it comes to argument. I only showed him four different Federalist Papers that support Madison's approach the position of the states. He keeps making reference to one (and a fifth grade history book) to show his position of an all powerful fed, but has never posted any of it to show just what his tiny little mind is thinking.

I'm telling you. There may have been bigger dickheads on this board, but I can't think of any.

that fifth grade text book is still way too sophisticated for you understand too.....

 

[The Rabbi]

oh i can readily admit i dont know it all, i just know a hell of a lot more than you do.

wow....thats the best you got?

It must be tough being you. Dumb as nails and arrogant....all at the same time.

That is a recipe for failure...

And, of course, you will blame the successful when you fail.

im already successful at a very young age, and yes it is tough living the life i live.... real tough

yeah. right.
Here I am.

 

[Syphon]

wow....thats the best you got?

It must be tough being you. Dumb as nails and arrogant....all at the same time.

That is a recipe for failure...

And, of course, you will blame the successful when you fail.

im already successful at a very young age, and yes it is tough living the life i live.... real tough

yeah. right.
Here I am.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BesDjUjbodk]Stewie's U.G.L.Y. Song - YouTube[/ame]

 

[saveliberty]

so you dont believe that they way your children turn out is not a reflection of how you raised them?

good to know....

Are you really that stupid or just a troll?

really did that last post escape your feeble little mind?

yes children are a reflection of how their parents raise them. small minds like yourself obviously can not comprehend this.

I doubt you can even change batteries in a flashlight.

 

[Syphon]

O.K. This ranks with some of the more stupid things you've posted.

First, the right has never avoided this so there is no showing of true colors. Personal Responsibility means you get it lined up or you pay the consequences. End of discussion. Yes, I have 11K to pay for that and a lot more. But I buy insurance so I am not going to pay for it. I have a neighbor (a lib) who does not buy insurance and pretty much knows he can screw the system so he spends it on a boat.

Next, unless things have changed, most of those so called medical bankruptcies are for amounts less than 12,000. That is the cost of a good used car. But people figure that they don't have to pay it so they wiggle out of it. A 100K bill, I could understand (boy, I'll bet that insurance looks a whole lot better than the boat when that happens....what about that woman from Ohio who took family vacations and then griped when she could not afford chemo because she could not afford insurance.....???? There is a sucker born every minute). If you want to let people get out from under such small medical bills, be my guest.

Finally, I got a copy of the Harvard Study and wiped my ass with it. First, the assumptions are incredibly specious and the entire study came under fire when it came out. It is basically bogus. Second, start providing names. You figure the study was done a decade ago which means you have 500,000 people who have died since then. Surely you morons can produce some names. Whenever I challenge anyone to produce a list of 1000 names (out of 500K....can't be that hard), it does not happen. We shut this one down a long time ago, junior...try to keep up. And finally, from purely a statistical standpoint....45,000 against the number of people who likely die in this country each year almost becomes statistical noise. That you would quote the study shows you are still using fifth grade books (and BTW: you whined about my posting parts of Federalist Papers...you never posted one sorry assed piece of 10 and stood behind it so STFU....but I digress).

Yes, you populist lefties are so easy to trash.

You got creamed again Junior.

This is fun.

so youre apparently smarter than researchers at Harvard now........
best statement youve ever made..

you really think a study is gonna release personal information??? ok you release all your personal information to the public then. dumbshit

your a bigger idiot than you even realize..
hows it feel to get pwned over and over again? speaking of getting creamed.... you have a little something left on your chin....

And you make the Special Olympics look like Mensa.

While you might want to sit down to hear this, the study has been shown by those who are not out stumping for Obama to be a pile of what your parents served you for dinner (for being such an asshole).

This is just a smattering of what is out there.

http://healthblog.ncpa.org/does-lack-of-insurance-cause-premature-death-probably-not/

But you keep eating that brown stuff and believing what makes you more able to play with yourself at night.

Now, if you go back and read my post, jackass, I said that you (an informed and highly intellectual member of the left...........sorry) should have no problem finding these people. In ten years the study predicts 450,000 deaths. You should hav no problem finding 1,000 people. Their relatives would be hollaring to the world.

But you can't produce them. Your vaunted study tells you just where to go to look for them too.

So, why don't you get off your butt-plug and do some research and show us the names.

Otherwise, keep eating the main course.

bwhahahaha you counter a Harvard Study with a blog.......

http://www.xiphux.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/youre-*******-retarded.jpg

 

[Listening]

that fifth grade text book is still way too sophisticated for you understand too.....

Still waiting for that argument out of Federalist #10 there Mr. Success.

You are the Black Knight of the board (via Monty Python)....all beat to hell and still talking.

 

[saveliberty]

Harvard? That place that turned out a president who can't understand the Constitution? Gee, I'm impressed.

 

[Syphon]

Harvard? That place that turned out a president who can't understand the Constitution? Gee, I'm impressed.

you must be one of those people who thinks going to college is only for snobs.....

 

[Listening]

bwhahahaha you counter a Harvard Study with a blog.......

Yes, the blog looked at several other studies and drew some very good comparisons.

Not that you would know how to decipher something like that....unless your fifth grade spelling book is pretty good.

You're a moron with no brain of your own.

Someone says Harvard and you start drooling like a dog.

Harvard Business School gave us Bush II.

Harvard Law School gave us Obama.

Keep drooling.....asshole.

 

[Syphon]

that fifth grade text book is still way too sophisticated for you understand too.....

Still waiting for that argument out of Federalist #10 there Mr. Success.

You are the Black Knight of the board (via Monty Python)....all beat to hell and still talking.

still waiting for you to be smarter than a 5th grader...

Listening is thiiiiiiissssss stupid!!!!!!

 

[Listening]

Harvard? That place that turned out a president who can't understand the Constitution? Gee, I'm impressed.

you must be one of those people who thinks going to college is only for snobs.....

It is unfortunate that you didn't make it through High School....on your own.

 

[Syphon]

bwhahahaha you counter a Harvard Study with a blog.......

Yes, the blog looked at several other studies and drew some very good comparisons.

Not that you would know how to decipher something like that....unless your fifth grade spelling book is pretty good.

You're a moron with no brain of your own.

Someone says Harvard and you start drooling like a dog.

Harvard Business School gave us Bush II.

Harvard Law School gave us Obama.

Keep drooling.....asshole.

a blog.... bwhahahahaha what are you gonna post next??? pretty picture you drew in photoshop...

this gets better and better...... i could write a book on how stupid you are..

 

[Syphon]

Harvard? That place that turned out a president who can't understand the Constitution? Gee, I'm impressed.

you must be one of those people who thinks going to college is only for snobs.....

It is unfortunate that you didn't make it through High School....on your own.

its unfortunate you didnt make it out of 5th grade.....

 

[saveliberty]

Harvard? That place that turned out a president who can't understand the Constitution? Gee, I'm impressed.

you must be one of those people who thinks going to college is only for snobs.....

When you get through high school, maybe you can tell us about your experiences with college compared to ours.

 

[Listening]

you must be one of those people who thinks going to college is only for snobs.....

It is unfortunate that you didn't make it through High School....on your own.

its unfortunate you didnt make it out of 5th grade.....

Wow...

Must be tough to admit that someone who didn't make it through the fifth grade mopped up the place with you when discussing the USC and Federalist Papers.

Still waiting for those sections from Federalist 10, Mr. Success.

Or might it be that they don't exist.