14 city firefighters finally promoted

[Polk]

So what compelling public purpose was there to place a higher weight on the written test than is done in any other town in Connecticut?

That's THEIR PERROGATIVE!!! IT'S THEIR FIRE DEPARTMENT!!!

Actually, it's not their prerogative. Since their action causes a disparate impact, they are required by law to show that the action has a compelling public purpose.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You're mischaracterizing my position. It's not that "fairness can only be judged after the results are in". The issue was present all along. And no, the study material isn't "strictly defined". Many of the questions on the written test are completely irrelevant to New Haven. One question, for example, asked fire equipment should be parked "uptown, downtown, or underground", a question that doesn't apply to New Haven as it has no "uptown" or "downtown". That the weight of each portion of the testing was defined in advance is irrelevant. The weighting used caused a disparate impact. According the Civil Rights Act of 1965, even if a policy is race-neutral on the surface, if it causes a disparate impact, it's the responsibility of a locality to show the policy is necessary. In that case, it clearly wasn't, as other localities in the state place a greater weight on the oral exam.

How is this question racially biased towards minority candidates?

Because it's only something that can be learned by knowing previous test-takers, which is far more common for white candidates.

You're full of it....so I guess minority candidates don't have any previous test takers to learn from...or the minority previous test takers are engaged in a conspiracy to keep the test questions and answers a big secret ...right?

Sorry polk...now your just pulling bullshit out of thin air....

 

[PatekPhilippe]

So what compelling public purpose was there to place a higher weight on the written test than is done in any other town in Connecticut?

That's THEIR PERROGATIVE!!! IT'S THEIR FIRE DEPARTMENT!!!

Actually, it's not their prerogative. Since their action causes a disparate impact, they are required by law to show that the action has a compelling public purpose.

No it didn't...and the SCOTUS SAYS SO!!!!

 

[IanC]

Swing and miss. Written exams are objective. Oral exams are not. And there is a ton of evidence showing that graders are much more generous in the scoring of oral exams of people of the same race. So when you have a test being administered by white people, they're going to give white people higher scores.

was that not your previous statement? you assumed that white scorers would be biased in scoring whites higher during the oral exam. what is your present position, now that you know that blacks do better on the oral portion? and do you think that having one white, one hispanic and one black as scorers on the oral test has anything to do with minorities performing better?

My position is still the same. There are biases in the scoring of oral exams, but those biases disappear when the test is scored by a diverse group of graders. It helps keep all groups honest. The problem with the written exam is still the same: it tested knowledge completely irrelevant to New Haven.

you pull out one question on the exam and say it disqualifies the whole thing. the first problem I see with that is: did the black applicants answer that question disproportionally wrong?

your reasoning is reminiscent of the arguments against the old IQ test question that had something to do with oarsman:regatta. everyone said how unfair it was but in fact blacks actually scored higher on that question than the test overall.

as far as the question being irrelevant to New Haven, it may well be irrelevent there but the exam is to test firefighters in general, not specifically just there. if there were questions that only blacks did poorly on we would have heard about it. I would welcome a statistical analysis of the written exam and I am sure it has been done. undoubtably the results did not support the black candidates cause and therefore remain undisclosed.

 

[IanC]

first blacks wanted written tests anonomously scored to get around bias. when that didn't work out so well they went back to wanting testing done where the applicants' race was visible so that bias could be implimented.

we would be better off just putting in a fixed quota for blacks, so that we could at least get the best candidates for the other spots.