137 children removed from polygamist ranch

[BrianH]

Well actually we would be talking about Christians. Jesus was a JEW. He tried to make the Jewish religion adapt and follow the proper teachings and his new messages.

The Mormons are NOT a new religion, they are Christians like all the other Christians that believe in Jesus.

Oh ok, I didn't catch that, I wasn't thinking that far back. We were talking about Lutherans, so I figured we were talking about another church. But as far as Jesus and Christianity, you're right

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad-mouthing mormons. But Latter Day Saints are a new religion compared to the rest. They started in the 1800's right, by Joseph Smith and a newer testament of Jesus Christ?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh ok, I didn't catch that, I wasn't thinking that far back. We were talking about Lutherans, so I figured we were talking about another church. But as far as Jesus and Christianity, you're right

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad-mouthing mormons. But Latter Day Saints are a new religion compared to the rest. They started in the 1800's right, by Joseph Smith and a newer testament of Jesus Christ?

They are Christians. The Bible is still just that the word of God through man and the word and message of Jesus.

The Book of Mormon is no more than another book of God's word.

If one reads the Bible you will discover that it clearly states there are many books in regards God and his word.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sounding more and more like the "authorities" were either hood winked or , playing Eots here, arranged a reason to search the compound.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080413/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

No caller and the accused hasn't left Arizona in at least a year. Ya that sounds like a solid case to me.

 

[p kirkes]

News, as of a few minutes ago on Yahoo, was that some of the Mothers have petitioned the Texas Govenor for help because the conditions the detained children are living in coupled with invasive examinations and hostile interrogations are deplorable. The response from authorities is to clam up.

I'm thinking the government was not properly prepared and the media should
initiate a serious investigation of the governments case and subsequent actions for propriety. The government should always be monitored by the forth estate IMO.

The main villian apparently did not do these things as the government would have us believe. He seems, by all accounts to have a good alibi.

Now the government has confiscated all the cell phones, control is being systematicly imposed, so that only they dole out the info a teaspoon at a time.

Also, on the Nancy Grace show, last night- Saturday, she would have us believe that these people lived in third world conditions. That certainly does not comport with the images shown of TV of clean, fully dressed, healthy appearing little girls and women, the immaculate conditions of the grounds and buildings. We all know what third world conditions are, just watch the evening news, and this ain't third world by any stretch.

The authorities can't identify the complaintant or her whereabouts.
This is one case, I feel, that the ACLU should be involved in only to keep the government of the up and up.

 

[bennylava]

Nancy Grace is a nut.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Nancy Grace is a nut.

She is indeed crazy as hell.

 

[Gunny]

News, as of a few minutes ago on Yahoo, was that some of the Mothers have petitioned the Texas Govenor for help because the conditions the detained children are living in coupled with invasive examinations and hostile interrogations are deplorable. The response from authorities is to clam up.

I'm thinking the government was not properly prepared and the media should
initiate a serious investigation of the governments case and subsequent actions for propriety. The government should always be monitored by the forth estate IMO.

The main villian apparently did not do these things as the government would have us believe. He seems, by all accounts to have a good alibi.

Now the government has confiscated all the cell phones, control is being systematicly imposed, so that only they dole out the info a teaspoon at a time.

Also, on the Nancy Grace show, last night- Saturday, she would have us believe that these people lived in third world conditions. That certainly does not comport with the images shown of TV of clean, fully dressed, healthy appearing little girls and women, the immaculate conditions of the grounds and buildings. We all know what third world conditions are, just watch the evening news, and this ain't third world by any stretch.

The authorities can't identify the complaintant or her whereabouts.
This is one case, I feel, that the ACLU should be involved in only to keep the government of the up and up.

Nancy Grace walks in the door with an accusation in one hand and a noose in the other. Judge Parker had NOTHING on her.

I wouldn't trust her opinion the grass was green without looking outside first.

 

[BrianH]

They are Christians. The Bible is still just that the word of God through man and the word and message of Jesus.

The Book of Mormon is no more than another book of God's word.

If one reads the Bible you will discover that it clearly states there are many books in regards God and his word.

I never said they weren't Christians RGS. You said they weren't a new religion. I was just saying that Joseph Smith started the religion in the
1800s. I am not arguing the legitimacy or teachings of the Mormon faith. I'm simply saying that the Mormon religion is a newer religion than most.

As far as what Bennylava said, I wasn't thinking that far back on the time-line. Now that I have, I understand what was meant.

 

[Ravi]

Sounding more and more like the "authorities" were either hood winked or , playing Eots here, arranged a reason to search the compound.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080413/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

No caller and the accused hasn't left Arizona in at least a year. Ya that sounds like a solid case to me.

Do you believe the fdls doesn't force underage girls to marry?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do you believe the fdls doesn't force underage girls to marry?

I believe the Government has to obey the laws of the land. And it is looking like Texas did NOT do that.

 

[Ravi]

I believe the Government has to obey the laws of the land. And it is looking like Texas did NOT do that.

How so?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How so?

Ohh let us see, shall we?

No person that supposedly called fro the compound has been found. The man named as the suspect has an air tight condition to show he was NOT in Texas in the last year to have "married her or raped her, much less made her pregnant".

The State is so weak they are "leaking" information in an attempt to sway public opinion and now they are restricting access to the people that would know the information might be wrong.

The State used a trumped up charge to raid a compound and then went way past any intent of the supposed "crime" on a major fishing expedition.

 

[Ravi]

That wasn't exactly what the article you linked said.

IMO, it is an open secret that this sect breaks the law by compelling the underaged to marry. I still don't understand why the authorities waited all this time to raid the place.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That wasn't exactly what the article you linked said.

IMO, it is an open secret that this sect breaks the law by compelling the underaged to marry. I still don't understand why the authorities waited all this time to raid the place.

Because they have no proof and no right to just make shit up. Like the story about the bed in the temple. No proof it is true, just a leaked story and a claim that an informant told them it is true. An informant they claim they have had for 4 years. So why didn't he tell them about the bed during the past 4 years?

 

[Ravi]

Because they have no proof and no right to just make shit up. Like the story about the bed in the temple. No proof it is true, just a leaked story and a claim that an informant told them it is true. An informant they claim they have had for 4 years. So why didn't he tell them about the bed during the past 4 years?

Maybe the informant didn't know about the bed...it's very hard to know what is going on at the moment. I'd take anything the sect says with a huge grain of salt because of course they have been indoctrinated by the FDLS. It would seem once they convicted the leader a couple of months ago there wouldn't be any reason they couldn't get a warrant to raid the compound.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It gets better and better. Now the State is lying to the mothers.

They have no evidence of abuse of anyone other then possibly mid teenage girls, yet they have removed children of all ages. They have leaked "evidence" to the press that makes little sense other than to try to turn peoples opinions. The Girl that supposedly made the call is still not one of the people they have in custody. The man that supposedly abused her hasn't left Arizona ( it appears) in over a year.

Yup, stellar case by the Texas authorities.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

 

[jillian]

A 16 year old girl with four children isn't proof of abuse?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A 16 year old girl with four children isn't proof of abuse?

Better start arresting teenagers in ghettos ehh? The rules of law apply to EVERYONE or they do not mean crap.

My personal favorite solution to a gang problem would be to get the list of names the cops have of members and arrest them all with planted drugs. Or just kill them out right. Guess what? If we did that , our laws would mean absolutely nothing for anyone.

4th amendment mean anything to you? The legal concept of innocent till proven guilty, ever hear that one? I guess the new rule is if you can not find any legal way to roust the people you do not like, create one by having someone make a fake call about a supposed problem.

Remind me again, where is this girl that called the authorities? Why is it the man she claimed beat and raped her and made her pregnant hasn't even BEEN in Texas in the last year at least?

I really like the special touch about the bed in the Temple. Somehow these cops just knew what it was for, evidence? WHO NEEDS THAT. Just leak the supposed claim to the press and let them do your dirty work for you.

Let us assume for a moment that teenage girls ARE in fact forced into marriages, how is that abuse against children under 12? How is it that the mothers are the abusers? I thought the claim originally was the mothers were victims also, well until they wouldn't play ball with the cops and give them what they wanted.

Laws MUST apply to everyone, no matter if you like them or not. The Rule of law has to apply across the board to every person, every group, or the rule of law doesn't exist.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A 16 year old girl with four children isn't proof of abuse?

And provide evidence that there is even a 16 year old with 4 children. The cult marries them off at 14 or 15 as I understand the claim. Unless the 16 year old had two sets of twins, there is no way she has 4 children.

Further prove who the father is. I don't see huge raids into the ghettos to arrest teenage mothers there.

Just because normal people do not like this groups religious practices does not give the State the right to break the law, violate peoples rights and make up claims that are blatantly false. If it does, I guess State religion IS acceptable in this Country.

 

[BrianH]

And provide evidence that there is even a 16 year old with 4 children. The cult marries them off at 14 or 15 as I understand the claim. Unless the 16 year old had two sets of twins, there is no way she has 4 children.

Further prove who the father is. I don't see huge raids into the ghettos to arrest teenage mothers there.

Just because normal people do not like this groups religious practices does not give the State the right to break the law, violate peoples rights and make up claims that are blatantly false. If it does, I guess State religion IS acceptable in this Country.

Dude, this happened last week, give it time. You're trying to solve a crime in a frickin 1 hour CSI show. Damn, they just raided a place they had no clue what it involved. You expect them to have all of the answers upon raiding the place.

As far as arresting teens in the Ghetto, it's and entirely different situation. I garauntee you if a teen from the Ghetto made a phone call to the police saying she was being raped or had been, they'd be out there in a heart beat.

DNA, to prove who the father is, takes time.

When religious believes involve sexually abusing little girls and forcing them to marry at 15-16, then yeah, most of us have a problem with that.

Are you a member of this sect? You sure are defending them.