100% alternative energy worldwide by 2030

[PoliticalChic]

Sweet. Will I be able to buy a flying car then?

Why don't you try out the one Rocks is using.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sweet. Will I be able to buy a flying car then?

Totally irrelevant, but really, with enough money, you can buy a flying car right now.

See, I told you.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

A doable and needed plan.

Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers


Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers



IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Most of the technology needed to shift the world from fossil fuel to clean, renewable energy already exists. Implementing that technology requires overcoming obstacles in planning and politics, but doing so could result in a 30 percent decrease in global power demand, say Stanford civil and environmental engineering Professor Mark Z. Jacobson and University of California-Davis researcher Mark Delucchi.

To make clear the extent of those hurdles – and how they could be overcome – they have written an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. In it, they present new research mapping out and evaluating a quantitative plan for powering the entire world on wind, water and solar energy, including an assessment of the materials needed and costs. And it will ultimately be cheaper than sticking with fossil fuel or going nuclear, they say.

The key is turning to wind, water and solar energy to generate electrical power – making a massive commitment to them – and eliminating combustion as a way to generate power for vehicles as well as for normal electricity use.

The problem lies in the use of fossil fuels and biomass combustion, which are notoriously inefficient at producing usable energy. For example, when gasoline is used to power a vehicle, at least 80 percent of the energy produced is wasted as heat.

With vehicles that run on electricity, it's the opposite. Roughly 80 percent of the energy supplied to the vehicle is converted into motion, with only 20 percent lost as heat. Other combustion devices can similarly be replaced with electricity or with hydrogen produced by electricity.




IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Jacobson and Delucchi used data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration to project that if the world's current mix of energy sources is maintained, global energy demand at any given moment in 2030 would be 16.9 terawatts, or 16.9 million megawatts.

They then calculated that if no combustion of fossil fuel or biomass were used to generate energy, and virtually everything was powered by electricity – either for direct use or hydrogen production – the demand would be only 11.5 terawatts. That's only two-thirds of the energy that would be needed if fossil fuels were still in the mix.

Fairy residence, tooth here!

Just wanted to make you feel at home.

. Our future is in ‘green energy’? “Presidents all the way back to Richard Nixon -- whose "Project Independence" promised to make America independent from foreign oil by 1980 -- were thwarted by short attention spans, other urgent problems and gyrations in the energy market.” After some 30 years and billions of dollars poured into alternative technologies, renewable energy now accounts for a mere 6.7% of our total.
A Past President's Advice to Obama: Act With Haste - WSJ.com

Based on US Department of Energy, sources of energy used in the US:
39.2% petroleum, 23.3% natural gas, 22.4% coal, 8.3% nuclear, 3.6% biomass, 2.4% hydroelectric, 0.35% geothermal, 0.31% wind, 0.08% solar.

Yeah pretty cool when Reagan took down the solar panel that Carted put up on the WH. If we had followed through with his ideas we could be energy independent NOW. You do know Carter was a nuclear engineer right.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

WTF are you talking about? Solar panels on DONESTIC land is DOMESTIC power unless I missed the treaty that Russia has made a claim to SUNLIGHT!!!

A coal power plant is built in America and runs on American coal. A windmill might be on our land but it is built in China. Coal plants are better for our economy.

G.E. windmills are built in China? Care to PROVE it?

More and more contracts for windmills and solar panels are being sent to China all the time. Texas windmills are now made in China, some might still be made here but it won't be long and we'll be getting them all from China.

 

[PoliticalChic]

A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables: Scientific American

A year ago former vice president Al Gore threw down a gauntlet: to repower America with 100 percent carbon-free electricity within 10 years. As the two of us started to evaluate the feasibility of such a change, we took on an even larger challenge: to determine how 100 percent of the world’s energy, for all purposes, could be supplied by wind, water and solar resources, by as early as 2030. Our plan is presented here.

Scientists have been building to this moment for at least a decade, analyzing various pieces of the challenge. Most recently, a 2009 Stanford University study ranked energy systems according to their impacts on global warming, pollution, water supply, land use, wildlife and other concerns. The very best options were wind, solar, geothermal, tidal and hydroelectric power—all of which are driven by wind, water or sunlight (referred to as WWS). Nuclear power, coal with carbon capture, and ethanol were all poorer options, as were oil and natural gas. The study also found that battery-electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles recharged by WWS options would largely eliminate pollution from the transportation sector.

Our plan calls for millions of wind turbines, water machines and solar installations. The numbers are large, but the scale is not an insurmountable hurdle; society has achieved massive transformations before. During World War II, the U.S. retooled automobile factories to produce 300,000 aircraft, and other countries produced 486,000 more. In 1956 the U.S. began building the Interstate Highway System, which after 35 years extended for 47,000 miles, changing commerce and society.

Is it feasible to transform the world’s energy systems? Could it be accomplished in two decades? The answers depend on the technologies chosen, the availability of critical materials, and economic and political factors.

"A year ago former vice president Al Gore threw down a gauntlet..."

Close.

What he threw down was a whole pizza, two subs, and a milkshake.

After that he ate the gauntlet.

 

[mdn2000]

What about styrene waste, I will add some facts about the styrene toxic waste, one reason fiberglass production is in china

So if you cannot address or never heard of Propene and Boron usage in the manufacturer of fiberglass you pretty much are going to get an educaction.

I am on a new computer so I have to get my files from my other drive as well as meet some freinds for food and eat but I will post before bed

Styrene waste, hundreds of tons

Boron, extremely limited supply

Propene only comes from oil and supply outstrips demand

 

[PoliticalChic]

possible and probable are 2 different things.

A 100% changeover from fossil fuels to so called renewable energy will cost quadrillions of dollars.

once again we see the abandonment of the good for the perfect.

Celebrate reality!

Let's hear three cheers for Big Oil-

It lets us get to work!

 

[PoliticalChic]

A doable and needed plan.

Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers


Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers



IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Most of the technology needed to shift the world from fossil fuel to clean, renewable energy already exists. Implementing that technology requires overcoming obstacles in planning and politics, but doing so could result in a 30 percent decrease in global power demand, say Stanford civil and environmental engineering Professor Mark Z. Jacobson and University of California-Davis researcher Mark Delucchi.

To make clear the extent of those hurdles – and how they could be overcome – they have written an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. In it, they present new research mapping out and evaluating a quantitative plan for powering the entire world on wind, water and solar energy, including an assessment of the materials needed and costs. And it will ultimately be cheaper than sticking with fossil fuel or going nuclear, they say.

The key is turning to wind, water and solar energy to generate electrical power – making a massive commitment to them – and eliminating combustion as a way to generate power for vehicles as well as for normal electricity use.

The problem lies in the use of fossil fuels and biomass combustion, which are notoriously inefficient at producing usable energy. For example, when gasoline is used to power a vehicle, at least 80 percent of the energy produced is wasted as heat.

With vehicles that run on electricity, it's the opposite. Roughly 80 percent of the energy supplied to the vehicle is converted into motion, with only 20 percent lost as heat. Other combustion devices can similarly be replaced with electricity or with hydrogen produced by electricity.




IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Jacobson and Delucchi used data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration to project that if the world's current mix of energy sources is maintained, global energy demand at any given moment in 2030 would be 16.9 terawatts, or 16.9 million megawatts.

They then calculated that if no combustion of fossil fuel or biomass were used to generate energy, and virtually everything was powered by electricity – either for direct use or hydrogen production – the demand would be only 11.5 terawatts. That's only two-thirds of the energy that would be needed if fossil fuels were still in the mix.

Fairy residence, tooth here!

Just wanted to make you feel at home.

. Our future is in ‘green energy’? “Presidents all the way back to Richard Nixon -- whose "Project Independence" promised to make America independent from foreign oil by 1980 -- were thwarted by short attention spans, other urgent problems and gyrations in the energy market.” After some 30 years and billions of dollars poured into alternative technologies, renewable energy now accounts for a mere 6.7% of our total.
A Past President's Advice to Obama: Act With Haste - WSJ.com

Based on US Department of Energy, sources of energy used in the US:
39.2% petroleum, 23.3% natural gas, 22.4% coal, 8.3% nuclear, 3.6% biomass, 2.4% hydroelectric, 0.35% geothermal, 0.31% wind, 0.08% solar.

Yeah pretty cool when Reagan took down the solar panel that Carted put up on the WH. If we had followed through with his ideas we could be energy independent NOW. You do know Carter was a nuclear engineer right.

That's tongue in cheek, right?

You believed that about the most incompetent President - up to now.

"He was discharged from active duty on 9 October, 1953. According to an old friend of mine who served as Rickover's personnel officer at Naval Reactors, LT Carter did not complete nuclear power school because of the need to take care of business at home."
When I think about the 1976 campaign and the importance of the energy issue at that time, I cannot help but wonder why Jimmy Carter's promoters made such a big deal about his nuclear expertise. My wonder turns to cynicism when I think about the policies that his administration imposed and the damage that they did to the growth of the industry just at a time when we most needed a vibrant new energy industry player."

Atomic Insights Blog: Picking on the Jimmy Carter myth

 

[mdn2000]

I will summarize later but just to show wht the facts are

To address the energy requirments to produce fiberglass used in windmills and to identify the companies who are getting rich each of the materials in the report must be researched, where are the mined, where do they come from, who manufacturers these materials, what is the energy requirement for each individual material, than we must add those numbers to the fiberglass production numbers.

I have a shitload of files but just aint put them together. If anyone thinks answering my simple question was simple they would of done it, green energy is not as simple as stating its a good idea. Folks beleive in green energy without an understanding of the industry it takes to make the basic materials.

I will try and avoid articles and post reports, this one from the EPA

http://www.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch11/final/c11s13.pdf

Raw Materials Handling -
The primary component of glass fiber is sand, but it also includes varying quantities of
feldspar, sodium sulfate, anhydrous borax, boric acid, and many other materials. The bulk supplies are
received by rail car and truck, and the lesser-volume supplies are received in drums and packages.
These raw materials are unloaded by a variety of methods, including drag shovels, vacuum systems,
and vibrator/gravity systems. Conveying to and from storage piles and silos is accomplished by belts,
screws, and bucket elevators. From storage, the materials are weighed according to the desired
product recipe and then blended well before their introduction into the melting unit. The weighing,
mixing, and charging operations may be conducted in either batch or continuous mode.
Glass Melting And Refining -
In the glass melting furnace, the raw materials are heated to temperatures ranging from
1500 to 1700°C (2700 to 3100°F) and are transformed through a sequence of chemical reactions to
molten glass. Although there are many furnace designs, furnaces are generally large, shallow, and
well-insulated vessels that are heated from above. In operation, raw materials are introduced
continuously on top of a bed of molten glass, where they slowly mix and dissolve. Mixing is effected
by natural convection, gases rising from chemical reactions, and, in some operations, by air injection
into the bottom of the bed.
Glass melting furnaces can be categorized by their fuel source and method of heat application
into 4 types: recuperative, regenerative, unit, and electric melter. The recuperative, regenerative, and
unit melter furnaces can be fueled by either gas or oil. The current trend is from gas-fired to oil-fired.
Recuperative furnaces use a steel heat exchanger, recovering heat from the exhaust gases by exchange
with the combustion air. Regenerative furnaces use a lattice of brickwork to recover waste heat from
exhaust gases. In the initial mode of operation, hot exhaust gases are routed through a chamber
containing a brickwork lattice, while combustion air is heated by passage through another
corresponding brickwork lattice. About every 20 minutes, the airflow is reversed, so that the
combustion air is always being passed through hot brickwork previously heated by exhaust gases.
Electric furnaces melt glass by passing an electric current through the melt. Electric furnaces are
either hot-top or cold-top. The former use gas for auxiliary heating, and the latter use only the electric
current. Electric furnaces are currently used only for wool glass fiber production because of the
electrical properties of the glass formulation. Unit melters are used only for the "indirect" marble
melting process, getting raw materials from a continuous screw at the back of the furnace adjacent to
the exhaust air discharge. There are no provisions for heat recovery with unit melters.
9/85

 

[PoliticalChic]

My question is WHY do so many people seem to be SO AFRAID of this idea?

No one is afraid of the idea.

When you sober up, you'll begin to see how absurd the idea is.

That's different from fear.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why does it strike FEAR into the hearts of conservatives? I mean I would think a CONSERVATIVE root word CONSERVE would want our Earth to be free from burning fossil fuel. Even the Bible thumpers.....Doesn't God say to care for the Earth?

I am SO glad that you bring politics into this, because politics belongs squarely in the middle of this discussion.

If green energy is as good, cheap, and clean as supporters say, why haven’t market forces should make it an increasing part of the energy picture…?

Politics: rather than the promotion of new sources of energy, the movement has been hijacked by those whose main motivation is the devolution of America, or to accomplish government ownership and control of our energy supply.

Sometimes called the “Watermelon Effect,” it is made up of the ‘green’ pro-environment policies on the outside, hiding the red Marxist redistributive policies on the inside.

BTW, we imported just over a third of our oil in 1981, and now 70%.

Don't you think it's time to untie the hands of Big Oil, and tie those of Sierra Club- Big Green?

 

[mdn2000]

WTF are you talking about? Solar panels on DONESTIC land is DOMESTIC power unless I missed the treaty that Russia has made a claim to SUNLIGHT!!!

A coal power plant is built in America and runs on American coal. A windmill might be on our land but it is built in China. Coal plants are better for our economy.

G.E. windmills are built in China? Care to PROVE it?

Everyone has to prove to you but you dont have to prove one damn thing.

How about proving that windmills hit their benchmark, do i need to go back and quote you or will you step and do what you are demanding of others.

Prove windmills hit the benchmark and do it without referencing a press release or an article absent of technical data. The benchmark must contain the electrical energy used by the windmills before they produce power, absent this fact your numbers and source will be extremely misleading.

So I have started to do what you demand, now do yourself what you demand of conservatives, after all I am meeting your demand.

 

[mdn2000]

A doable and needed plan.

Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers


Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers



IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Most of the technology needed to shift the world from fossil fuel to clean, renewable energy already exists. Implementing that technology requires overcoming obstacles in planning and politics, but doing so could result in a 30 percent decrease in global power demand, say Stanford civil and environmental engineering Professor Mark Z. Jacobson and University of California-Davis researcher Mark Delucchi.

To make clear the extent of those hurdles – and how they could be overcome – they have written an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. In it, they present new research mapping out and evaluating a quantitative plan for powering the entire world on wind, water and solar energy, including an assessment of the materials needed and costs. And it will ultimately be cheaper than sticking with fossil fuel or going nuclear, they say.

The key is turning to wind, water and solar energy to generate electrical power – making a massive commitment to them – and eliminating combustion as a way to generate power for vehicles as well as for normal electricity use.

The problem lies in the use of fossil fuels and biomass combustion, which are notoriously inefficient at producing usable energy. For example, when gasoline is used to power a vehicle, at least 80 percent of the energy produced is wasted as heat.

With vehicles that run on electricity, it's the opposite. Roughly 80 percent of the energy supplied to the vehicle is converted into motion, with only 20 percent lost as heat. Other combustion devices can similarly be replaced with electricity or with hydrogen produced by electricity.




IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Jacobson and Delucchi used data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration to project that if the world's current mix of energy sources is maintained, global energy demand at any given moment in 2030 would be 16.9 terawatts, or 16.9 million megawatts.

They then calculated that if no combustion of fossil fuel or biomass were used to generate energy, and virtually everything was powered by electricity – either for direct use or hydrogen production – the demand would be only 11.5 terawatts. That's only two-thirds of the energy that would be needed if fossil fuels were still in the mix.

Fairy residence, tooth here!

Just wanted to make you feel at home.

. Our future is in ‘green energy’? “Presidents all the way back to Richard Nixon -- whose "Project Independence" promised to make America independent from foreign oil by 1980 -- were thwarted by short attention spans, other urgent problems and gyrations in the energy market.” After some 30 years and billions of dollars poured into alternative technologies, renewable energy now accounts for a mere 6.7% of our total.
A Past President's Advice to Obama: Act With Haste - WSJ.com

Based on US Department of Energy, sources of energy used in the US:
39.2% petroleum, 23.3% natural gas, 22.4% coal, 8.3% nuclear, 3.6% biomass, 2.4% hydroelectric, 0.35% geothermal, 0.31% wind, 0.08% solar.

Yeah pretty cool when Reagan took down the solar panel that Carted put up on the WH. If we had followed through with his ideas we could be energy independent NOW. You do know Carter was a nuclear engineer right.

Prove it, where is your source, carter never finished, he joined the navy as an officer and worked on a nuclear sub, that is why your confused, got your mind mixed up.

 

[mdn2000]

What happened to Cold Fusion,

A ton of fiberglass takes millions of btu's, how do I convert that to watts? More searching, more research.

http://www.ms.ornl.gov/programs/energyeff/cfcc/iof/chap6.pdf

In theory, about 2.2 million Btu
of energy are required to melt a ton of glass. In
reality, it takes twice as much energy because of
inefficiencies and loses. The glass industry consists
of four major segments: container glass (bottles,
jars, etc.); flat glass (windows, windshields,
mirrors, etc.); fiberglass (building insulation and
textile fibers); and specialty glass (cookware, flat
panel displays, light bulbs, fiber optics, medical

wow, who woud of though, 4 million btu to make a ton of fiberglass, figure the new Vesta windmills use 270 tons of fiberglass and that is rounded off 1 billion btu's of energy just to make one windmills worth of fiberglass. Did I get that right, 1,000,000,000 btu's. I admit I dont know how that converts to electricity, anyone out there able to help. I will look though.

On top of over one billion btu's just for fiberglass production we now have to transport the fiberglass to the turbing and nacelle manufactorer such as Veste which is in Europe, than ship the turbine, the nacelle, and the tower to the USA, put it on custom built trailors and than transfer them to the location to be built.

Now I will have to look up the energy required to mine the silica

Now I will have to look up the energy to drill for the oil, and than to refine the Propene out of the oil.

I need to look at the energy needed to mine boron and transport it to the glass furnace.

Hell we need to know the energy and materials used to build the glass furnace.

I have yet to touch on the copper used in the generator.

chromoly used for bearings, steal in the tower, the computer the radio, the lights, the idle power consumption.

This is a project of great research

So lets wait for a response.

How about how much C02 is created by generated a billion btu's

Not fair, that is only one windmill, Old Crock's state of Oregon have installed over 25,000 windmills so thats what, 27 trillion btu's worth of CO2, I am guessing at the numbers and estimating, Old Crock failed to provide any technical data for the wind farms of Oregon when asked but he did say 2 gwh and thats the number of windmills needed.

Hey Old Crock you said Seattle and Portland together only use 2 gwh, thats a flat out lie, maybe at night, in the lowest peak usage season, how come I aint seen you correct yourself or nothing on that fact I presented.

 

[mdn2000]

I am just posting a bunch of facts, as I find them, I will put it all together into a nice sumarized post later but just so the green energy folks can see the vast amount of information they know nothing of I am posting as I go.

I have some stuff on my back up hard drive but this is some new stuff I am finding which is relevant.

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Hearings :.

During this time, Ohio has lost about 200,000 manufacturing jobs. These jobs are not simply migrating to another region – they are going overseas and they aren’t coming back. This is because other countries do not have the high costs that we place on our industry, such as rising health care costs, litigation, regulatory burdens, taxes, unfair competition from China, and escalating natural gas costs.

Relevance is Ohio was one of the Cornings fiberglass manufacturering sites.

“Almost all new production of chemicals and plastics will take place in the Middle East and Asia…Charles O. Holliday Jr., chairman and chief executive of DuPont Co., told investors in December that high energy costs will prompt the company to shift its ‘center of gravity’ overseas

 

[mdn2000]

http://www.ms.ornl.gov/programs/energyeff/cfcc/iof/chap6.pdf

Electrical heating is used exclusively in many
smaller specialty and fiberglass melting furnaces
because of its lower initial cost and low emissions,
even though energy costs remain high. Key
disadvantages of all electric furnaces are the high
energy cost and short furnace life. Electric furnaces
are rebuilt as often as every six months, but
because of their small size, down time is limited
to only about two days.

The below figure is from 1991, now I got to figure out how much fiberglass production has increased since 1991, consider windmills were pretty much non exsistent 20 years ago I think its safe to say its more than quadrupled.

Maybe significantly more than 250 trillion btu's currently being used solely for the fiberglass portion of a windmill.

How much CO2 is that?

6.6 FIBER GLASS
The fiber glass industry is made up of two
primary markets: wool insulation and textile
fibers. Wool insulation is a short-fiber product used
by the construction industry. Textile fibers are a
continuous-fiber product principally used as a
polymer matrix composite reinforcement.
Together, the four major producers of wool and
the six major producers of textile fibers employ
about 16,000 workers. A typical producer can
operate as many as 27 glass melt furnaces. In 1991,
fiber glass made up 9% of all glass produced and
accounted for 21% of the total market value. In
1981, 71% by weight of all glass fiber shipped was
wool. Total energy consumption for the fiber glass
industry in 1991 was 59.5 trillion Btu,

 

[mdn2000]

This reads poor. At least to me, but Owens Corning is who we speak of when speaking of a wind mill and the raw materials used to produce wind mills.

COMPOSITES A composite is a reinforcing material like glass fiber that is combined with a polymer to produce structural or functional properties that enhance performance in a variety of end-use applications. INVESTING IN GLOBAL GROWTH Growth in Emerging Markets Owens Corning completed Russia, India, Mexico and Brazil, the most significant acquisition while profitably growing its Owens Corning expects in its history in 2007 with the revenue from international, composites growth in Asia purchase of Saint-Gobain’s commercial and industrial to continue to exceed reinforcements and composite sources. As a result, the global growth rates. The fabrics businesses. The acquisition positions the composites market in China acquisition further extends Owens Corning brand in and India alone are projected Owens Corning’s position as global markets where the to grow by double-digits in the market leader in an industry company does not have a 2008

Owens Corning develops as infrastructure, construction, resistance and high strength. composite material for large automotive, wind energy and diameter pipe applications consumer goods. Advanced Glass Melting (AGM) is a technology • Saint-Gobain expands in Italy Owens Corning is where innovative furnace and Spain through acquisition accelerating its plan to design allows for more efficient

 

[kyzr]

Ever wonder what happened to T. Boone's plan to use prairie wind power to power the east coast? <line losses>
Ever wonder what happened to the massive solar plant in the Mojave Desert? <Pelosi, Boxer & Feinstein killed it>
Ever wonder why wind power isn't more plentiful? <need constant wind >13m/s to be cost-effective>

So where does all this leave "alternative energy". As a small percentage of the US power grid. The "smart grid" will do more to conserve power than alternative energy.

We had a lot of clean hydro-electric power, but dams are bad. <stupid political-correctness, hydro-power is a good thing>

Nuclear power is clean, and reliable. I think they are being built again. Good thing the old plants need to be replaced as they wear out.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ever wonder what happened to T. Boone's plan to use prairie wind power to power the east coast? <line losses>
Ever wonder what happened to the massive solar plant in the Mojave Desert? <Pelosi, Boxer & Feinstein killed it>
Ever wonder why wind power isn't more plentiful? <need constant wind >13m/s to be cost-effective>

So where does all this leave "alternative energy". As a small percentage of the US power grid. The "smart grid" will do more to conserve power than alternative energy.

We had a lot of clean hydro-electric power, but dams are bad. <stupid political-correctness, hydro-power is a good thing>

Nuclear power is clean, and reliable. I think they are being built again. Good thing the old plants need to be replaced as they wear out.

There are a lot of smart folks on the other side, who know that there is no alternative energy scenario that works.

US? 40 years, no luck.

Spain:
"Calzada says Spain's torrential spending -- no other nation has so aggressively supported production of electricity from renewable sources -- on wind farms and other forms of alternative energy has indeed created jobs. But Calzada's report concludes that they often are temporary and have received $752,000 to $800,000 each in subsidies -- wind industry jobs cost even more, $1.4 million each. And each new job entails the loss of 2.2 other jobs that are either lost or not created in other industries because of the political allocation -- sub-optimum in terms of economic efficiency -- of capital. (European media regularly report "eco-corruption" leaving a "footprint of sleaze" -- gaming the subsidy systems, profiteering from land sales for wind farms, etc.) Calzada says the creation of jobs in alternative energy has subtracted about 110,000 jobs elsewhere in Spain's economy. "
George F. Will - A Quixotic Pursuit: Green Energy Jobs - washingtonpost.com

So when can we expect the intelligent 'greenies' to catch on to how they are being used?

 

[mdn2000]

Ever wonder what happened to T. Boone's plan to use prairie wind power to power the east coast? <line losses>
Ever wonder what happened to the massive solar plant in the Mojave Desert? <Pelosi, Boxer & Feinstein killed it>
Ever wonder why wind power isn't more plentiful? <need constant wind >13m/s to be cost-effective>

So where does all this leave "alternative energy". As a small percentage of the US power grid. The "smart grid" will do more to conserve power than alternative energy.

We had a lot of clean hydro-electric power, but dams are bad. <stupid political-correctness, hydro-power is a good thing>

Nuclear power is clean, and reliable. I think they are being built again. Good thing the old plants need to be replaced as they wear out.

The "smart grid", what the hell is a smart grid. Another marketing ploy to make trillions for corporations, smart grid, what the hell is it, the ability to turn off power to homes to supply business? Smart Grid, explain the smart grid, no links, no source, your words.

The smart grid is to empower brokers of electricity. We dont need a smart grid, we dont need new power lines, we Nuclear power plants near the areas that use the power.

The only problem with the grid is the idiots on wall street cant sell power from new york in california when peak demand hits, and the only reason there is problem, brown outs, is because california is importing power, not making it.

Smart Grid, sounds great, sign me up, where do I pay the Wall Street power brokers.