10 Common Climate Change Denier Myths

[Silver Cat]

how does the CO2 migrate down the water column?

It do "migrate" in many ways, most fast and important - in CaC0_3.

Where does the Calcium come from? ... for each mole of CO2, you need a mole of Ca ... so to sequester 15 Gigatons of CO2 per year, we'll need around 12 Gigatons of Calcium every year ...

First of all, there is more than enough of Ca already dissolved in the sea water. Second, why do you think that we need to sequester 15Gigatons of CO_2?

 

[ReinyDays]

First of all, there is more than enough of Ca already dissolved in the sea water. Second, why do you think that we need to sequester 15Gigatons of CO_2?

Accounting ...

If man-kind is emitting 35 gigatons of CO2 in the atmosphere ... then we should find an addition 35 gigatons of CO2 in our atmosphere ... but we only measure 17 gigatons added every year ... so my question is where does the rest of the CO2 go? ... I say the initial assumption is wrong, the 35 gigatons is hyperbole ... alternately, primary producers are sequestering far more than the Alarmists allow for ... either way, what's stopping the climate system from returning to it's equilibrium state? ...

How much calcium in it's +2 oxidation state is there in the top 10 meters of the ocean? ... or do calcium compounds spontaneously break apart and form CaCO3? ...

 

[Silver Cat]

First of all, there is more than enough of Ca already dissolved in the sea water. Second, why do you think that we need to sequester 15Gigatons of CO_2?

Accounting ...

If man-kind is emitting 35 gigatons of CO2 in the atmosphere ... then we should find an addition 35 gigatons of CO2 in our atmosphere ... but we only measure 17 gigatons added every year ... so my question is where does the rest of the CO2 go? ... I say the initial assumption is wrong, the 35 gigatons is hyperbole ... alternately, primary producers are sequestering far more than the Alarmists allow for ... either way, what's stopping the climate system from returning to it's equilibrium state? ...

How much calcium in it's +2 oxidation state is there in the top 10 meters of the ocean? ... or do calcium compounds spontaneously break apart and form CaCO3? ...

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

 

[ReinyDays]

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

Agreed, higher CO2 concentrations are helpful to plants, although other nutrients limit how quickly plants can respond to these higher levels ...

There's no thermal convection in the oceans, vertical motion in greatly inhibited by warming the oceans at the surface, making the surface water more buoyant in the water column ... the hydrosaline circulation in minimal, and only occurs in a few places ... atmospheric gases dissolved in the oceans are left with diffusion as their primary mover, and that's a lengthy process ...

Back to our Ca^+2 ions? ...

 

[Silver Cat]

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

Agreed, higher CO2 concentrations are helpful to plants, although other nutrients limit how quickly plants can respond to these higher levels ...

There's no thermal convection in the oceans, vertical motion in greatly inhibited by warming the oceans at the surface, making the surface water more buoyant in the water column ... the hydrosaline circulation in minimal, and only occurs in a few places ... atmospheric gases dissolved in the oceans are left with diffusion as their primary mover, and that's a lengthy process ...

Back to our Ca^+2 ions? ...

Yes. What exactly is unclear?

Thermocline - Wikipedia

Ocean current - Wikipedia

Why is the ocean salty, but rivers flowing into it are not?

Coccolithophore - Wikipedia

 

[whitehall]

Jeff Bernardelli is a CBS employee with a B.S. degree in climate science. How does that give him the right to label reasonable people who argue against the invented concept of man made global warming as "deniers" when the concept of "man-made global warming" is a yet to be proved theory? The fundamental undeniable law of the universe is that the absence if heat is the dominant factor in the timeless void of space.The energy source we earthlings rely on is a fickle bitch in geological terms. The last ice age ended only 20 or 30 thousand years ago and as recently as the 1970's the biggest fear among climate "scientists" was another ice age. Idiot liberals like Bernardelli might deny it but the issue of MMGW is purely political. Left wingers never have a nice day unless they can use it as an extortion scheme.

 

[ReinyDays]

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

Agreed, higher CO2 concentrations are helpful to plants, although other nutrients limit how quickly plants can respond to these higher levels ...

There's no thermal convection in the oceans, vertical motion in greatly inhibited by warming the oceans at the surface, making the surface water more buoyant in the water column ... the hydrosaline circulation in minimal, and only occurs in a few places ... atmospheric gases dissolved in the oceans are left with diffusion as their primary mover, and that's a lengthy process ...

Back to our Ca^+2 ions? ...

Yes. What exactly is unclear?
View attachment 313868

Thermocline - Wikipedia

Ocean current - Wikipedia

Why is the ocean salty, but rivers flowing into it are not?

Coccolithophore - Wikipedia

You just threw gibberish out there didn't you ... none of these cites have anything to do with the wild speculation you made ... am I to assume you can't back it up? ... that's because you're wrong, calcium carbonate in NOT sequestering carbon dioxide in any but tiny amounts ...

I'm asking about calcium ions ... do you know what an ion is? ... sometimes called free radicals ... look it up on Wikipedia if you have to ... yeesh ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

Agreed, higher CO2 concentrations are helpful to plants, although other nutrients limit how quickly plants can respond to these higher levels ...

There's no thermal convection in the oceans, vertical motion in greatly inhibited by warming the oceans at the surface, making the surface water more buoyant in the water column ... the hydrosaline circulation in minimal, and only occurs in a few places ... atmospheric gases dissolved in the oceans are left with diffusion as their primary mover, and that's a lengthy process ...

Back to our Ca^+2 ions? ...

Wait, so the oceans aren't eating the missing warming??

 

[ReinyDays]

Wait, so the oceans aren't eating the missing warming??

What missing warming? ... all of it is accounted for, sort of ... the IPCC report gives a single degree C in 50 years ... the thermometers we have in wide distribution only measure to the nearest whole degree C ... sure enough, NOAA reports a single degree C rise in temperatures since 1970 ... all the heat is accounted for ...

Will another single degree C cause catastrophic climate change? ... has the most recent single degree C caused widespread death and destruction, billions dead, oceans boiling off, massive changes in the sun's energy curve, Beetlejuice going supernova, THE BIG RIP, Madonna music becoming popular again? ...

As they say in the profession: || ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wait, so the oceans aren't eating the missing warming??

What missing warming? ... all of it is accounted for, sort of ... the IPCC report gives a single degree C in 50 years ... the thermometers we have in wide distribution only measure to the nearest whole degree C ... sure enough, NOAA reports a single degree C rise in temperatures since 1970 ... all the heat is accounted for ...

Will another single degree C cause catastrophic climate change? ... has the most recent single degree C caused widespread death and destruction, billions dead, oceans boiling off, massive changes in the sun's energy curve, Beetlejuice going supernova, THE BIG RIP, Madonna music becoming popular again? ...

As they say in the profession: || ...

IPCC said "Since 1955, over 90% of the excess heat trapped by greenhouse gases has been stored in the oceans (Figure from IPCC 5th Assessment Report)." That's peer reviewed 'science'

Ocean Warming

 

[ReinyDays]

<nitpick> The IPCC report is not peer reviewed in the same sense refereed science journals are ... the report used peer reviewed citations ... but the report itself is self-published ... </nitpick>

 

[Silver Cat]

First - high levels of CO_2 are good, not bad (for plants and, therefore for humans). Second, there is such thing as water circulation. Third, the banner "Use more fertilizers! " sounds much better than "Use less fuel! " at least because it means more food.

Agreed, higher CO2 concentrations are helpful to plants, although other nutrients limit how quickly plants can respond to these higher levels ...

There's no thermal convection in the oceans, vertical motion in greatly inhibited by warming the oceans at the surface, making the surface water more buoyant in the water column ... the hydrosaline circulation in minimal, and only occurs in a few places ... atmospheric gases dissolved in the oceans are left with diffusion as their primary mover, and that's a lengthy process ...

Back to our Ca^+2 ions? ...

Yes. What exactly is unclear?
View attachment 313868

Thermocline - Wikipedia

Ocean current - Wikipedia

Why is the ocean salty, but rivers flowing into it are not?

Coccolithophore - Wikipedia

You just threw gibberish out there didn't you ... none of these cites have anything to do with the wild speculation you made ... am I to assume you can't back it up? ... that's because you're wrong, calcium carbonate in NOT sequestering carbon dioxide in any but tiny amounts ...

I'm asking about calcium ions ... do you know what an ion is? ... sometimes called free radicals ... look it up on Wikipedia if you have to ... yeesh ...

Do you think, that 0,7-1, 4 Gt of CaCO_3 falling from upper layers of water on the ocean bottom or into the deepnesses every year is "tiny amounts"?

 

[ReinyDays]

Do you think, that 0,7-1, 4 Gt of CaCO_3 falling from upper layers of water on the ocean bottom or into the deepnesses every year is "tiny amounts"?

I asked about Calcium ions ... not Calcium compounds ...

You're just throwing sciency words out here hoping they make sense ... they don't ... you're violating the conservation of mass until you can explain where the Calcium comes from to bond with the CO2 to form CaCO3 ...

What's funny is you're using "1.4 gigatons" like we should be impressed or something ... using molar values of mass, this is only 1/20th of what we're looking for ... do you know what a "mole" is and how it's used in this context? ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do you think, that 0,7-1, 4 Gt of CaCO_3 falling from upper layers of water on the ocean bottom or into the deepnesses every year is "tiny amounts"?

I asked about Calcium ions ... not Calcium compounds ...

You're just throwing sciency words out here hoping they make sense ... they don't ... you're violating the conservation of mass until you can explain where the Calcium comes from to bond with the CO2 to form CaCO3 ...

What's funny is you're using "1.4 gigatons" like we should be impressed or something ... using molar values of mass, this is only 1/20th of what we're looking for ... do you know what a "mole" is and how it's used in this context? ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wait, so the oceans aren't eating the missing warming??

What missing warming? ... all of it is accounted for, sort of ... the IPCC report gives a single degree C in 50 years ... the thermometers we have in wide distribution only measure to the nearest whole degree C ... sure enough, NOAA reports a single degree C rise in temperatures since 1970 ... all the heat is accounted for ...

Will another single degree C cause catastrophic climate change? ... has the most recent single degree C caused widespread death and destruction, billions dead, oceans boiling off, massive changes in the sun's energy curve, Beetlejuice going supernova, THE BIG RIP, Madonna music becoming popular again? ...

As they say in the profession: || ...

IPCC said "Since 1955, over 90% of the excess heat trapped by greenhouse gases has been stored in the oceans (Figure from IPCC 5th Assessment Report)." That's peer reviewed 'science'

Ocean Warming

90% of the heat! That means the atmosphere is "warmer" due to only 10% of the heat.

Isn't that amazing!?

 

[Silver Cat]

Do you think, that 0,7-1, 4 Gt of CaCO_3 falling from upper layers of water on the ocean bottom or into the deepnesses every year is "tiny amounts"?

I asked about Calcium ions ... not Calcium compounds ...

You're just throwing sciency words out here hoping they make sense ... they don't ... you're violating the conservation of mass until you can explain where the Calcium comes from to bond with the CO2 to form CaCO3 ...

Yale-New Haven Teachers Institute
"
CALCIUM, GEOLOGY AND THE HYDROSPHERE
In the earth’s crust calcium makes up about 3.4% of the mass, exceeded by iron, 4.7%, aluminum, 7.5%, silicon 25.8% and oxygen 49.5%. Calcium, one of the elements of the original crust of the earth, is today found in igneous rocks as calcium silicates and in sedimentary and metamorphic rocks as calcium carbonates. The processes involved in weathering rocks, especially where some acid is present, as carbon dioxide dissolved in water or from growing lichens, are able to free some calcium from its sequestered location and send it on its way as a cation attracted to a water molecule.
Water carries the calcium cations from the highlands to the oceans. Concentrations of Ca ++ in fresh water range from 0.01 to 0.1 millimolar. 8 High concentrations of calcium and/or magnesium cations in fresh water create what is called hard water. In seawater Ca ++ concentrations are 100 to 1000 times higher at 10 millimolar, with slightly greater concentrations in the deeper, colder water. This calcium then spends, on the average, one million years in the ocean before it appears on land again. The calcium ion remains in the sea water until it is precipitated out as calcium carbonate or (more rarely) as calcium sulfate, gypsum, which when heated becomes plaster of paris.

The upper levels of the ocean are supersaturated with Ca ++ and carbonate, Ca --3 , ions. This means that all of these species which can be held in solution are in solution. The amount varies with different locations and conditions with saturation being greatest in warm shallow water with lower levels of CO2, because of photosynthesis and temperature. In these locations CaCO3 precipitates readily either inorganically or with the help of organisms. Organisms can accomplish this by building shells. This is one of the processes called biomineralization. As the organisms die their hard or mineralized parts, shells, fall to the ocean floor and accumulate or dissolve depending on depth, temperature and pressure. Shells and such which fall to the bottom of the deep parts of the ocean are most often redissolved because the deeper waters can hold more CO2 and are colder. The division between where the CaCO3 dissolves and accumulates is called the lysocline.

The mechanisms which cause CaCO3 accumulation in water are various, fascinating and not fully understood. Microscopic life, heterotrophic and photoautotrophic, is responsible for much of the deposition. Simkiss says the oldest evidence for life on earth is probably the “algal limestones” of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) which are dated as 2.7 billion years old. 9 Thomas H. Huxley, in a 1868 lecture to working men titled “On a Piece of Chalk,” 10 argues that the tiny organism Globigerina is responsible for much of the limestone which underlies Europe. Kormondy 11 states that some aquatic plants occurring in alkaline waters release CaCO3 as a by-product of photosynthetic assimilation. As an example he says that 100 kg of Elodea canadensis can precipitate 2 kg of CaCO3 in 10 hours of sunlight under natural conditions.

The deposited CaCO3 can be mixed with other sediments from the sea or washed from the land depending on its location.

How does the calcium get back on land after if has done its time in the ocean, Obviously some is brought back as birds, animals and man harvest seafood, especially shellfish, and eat it on land, discarding the shells. The Indians did this when they harvested fish and planted it under their corn. (The form of calcium is different in fish skeletons. See below.) The High School in the Community gardens make use of compost which is created by pigs from supermarket and resturant wastes and leaves. Seashells are one of the few recognizable items in the compost, slow release calcium sources.

The majority of calcium, however, takes a different route back to the land. It takes a ride on a major geological process. The movements of crustal plates and continental land masses with various upthrusts has brought many of these accumulated CaCO3 deposits to or near the surface as limestone or, if it has undergone metamorphosis by pressure and temperature, as marble. Much of Europe and the central part of the United States east of the Mississippi River are underlain with limestone. The white cliffs of Dover are limestone. The northwestern part of Connecticut has bands of marble sandwiched between layers of metamorphosed sandstone and shale, indicating past open ocean sedimentary environment in a warm climate.

Calcium can also make it back to land through the evaporation of brackish inland seas and the processes which produce reefs."

What's funny is you're using "1.4 gigatons" like we should be impressed or something ... using molar values of mass, this is only 1/20th of what we're looking for ... do you know what a "mole" is and how it's used in this context? ...

First - 1/20th is rather important part and should not be ignored. Second - more fertilizers we'll use on our fields, more fertilizers will be in the seas, more CO_2 will become CaCO_3, laying on the ocean bottom.

 

[mamooth]

He-he-he... And what your "rational people" say about chalk formation?

They say that limestone formation takes place over millions of years, therefore it's not a factor in short term ocean CO2 absorption.

That's another thing about deniers. They have problems grasping scale, whether it be time, mass or energy.

 

[Silver Cat]

He-he-he... And what your "rational people" say about chalk formation?

They say that limestone formation takes place over millions of years, therefore it's not a factor in short term ocean CO2 absorption.

That's another thing about deniers. They have problems grasping scale, whether it be time, mass or energy.

No. More CO_2 in the air means more CO_2 in the water, more CO_2 in the water means increased productivity of the oceanic ecosystems, which means increased speed of CaCO_3 sedimentation. More CO_2 -> less CO_2. Self regulation and negative feedback, you know.

 

[Silver Cat]

How long after Krakatoa erruption, the CO_2 level was increased? Three years? Five? Hardly more.

 

[Likkmee]

I've actually felt the "global warming"....back in maybe 2010. It was whipping coffee and a lot of guys moved crops up to a higher elevation since days could hit 82-87 plus. Since 2014 or so it's been back to 1990~ish levels and the last several weeks has resulted in "old days" clouding and highs of 70-76 or so.The mid elevation(2800 feet) is rocking and I sometimes have to wear socks at night ! 58F is hellish !