Zelensky wishes he'd have supported Trump and sunk Biden instead...

[Faun]

Your 2nd link proved that Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin (who was fired by Biden in March of 2016) did not continue the investigation into Burisma, the Biden's cash cow.
Your link proves rampant corruption by Burisma, Zelensky should have investigated as requested by Trump and followed the money to see how much the Biden's got.
The courts were investigating corruption, not their AG (Lutsenko).

Shokin's replacement went after Burisma on tax-related charges and won a judgement of over $7 million dollars (U.S.)...

All Cases Closed against Burisma Group and its President Nikolay Zlochevskyi in Ukraine. The Company Cooperated with Law Enforcement Agencies and Paid in Full All Outstanding Fees - Jan. 12, 2017

International Energy Group Burisma with assets in Ukraine announces that all legal proceedings and pending criminal… - Jan. 12, 2017. By Burisma Group

www.kyivpost.com

​

The decision to fully close all pending legal proceedings and criminal allegations was the result of many months of full cooperation between the Office of the General Prosecutor and the legal team representing the Burisma Group. Further, the Burisma Group agreed that should an investigation determine that the Burisma Group owed outstanding taxes and/or fees that it would, without appeal, pay any and all outstanding taxes, fines and fees. Following the Burisma Group’s full cooperation and willingness to submit to a thorough investigation and its findings, the Pechersk District Court of Kiev obliged the Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine to close the case against Mr. Zlochevskyi and remove him from the wanted list. As a result of the Court’s decision the PGO fulfilled the relevant court order. The Ukrainian court decision is fully consistent with the decision taken by the U.K. court on January 21, 2015 and expert’s opinion based on the results of forensic and economic expertise, dated February 6, 2015. After considering Nikolay Zlocheskyi’s activities in Ukraine from 2002 to 2014, the British court ruled in favor of Nikolay Zlochevskyi and obliged the UK Serious Fraud Office (the SFO) to pay the defendant’s costs. Moreover, as a result of the investigation, Burisma agreed to pay UAH180 millions of tax liabilities.​

 

[kyzr]

And yet no one had seen any signs of this “aggression”. It existed solely in the statements of Shokin, which aren’t worth a damn.

Please see post #35, I believe it replies to your post adequately. Thx.

 

[kyzr]

Ron Paul is not news. Your second article is only about how the U.S. sowed seeds of corruption within the PGO.

The fact remains, Shokin was not actively prosecuting Zlochevsky or Burisma. He was protecting them. This is Ukrainian news from before Biden got Shokin fired...

​

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized $23 million in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure. Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.​

1. Any link to any "news" organization is not news. CNN is fake news. MSDNC, NBC, most "news" outlets are partisan hacks not giving both sides of the debate.
2. Sowing seeds against a prosecutor is important, especially when you're getting $83,000 a month for a no-show job, correct??
3. The entire point of this thread is that before Zelensky was elected, crooked Poroshenko was president, and probably managed the corruption carefully. This is why IMHO Zelensky should have investigated as Trump requested. Otherwise there are no verified facts, just corruption. WTF happened to Burisma? Soros gets away again...

 

[colfax_m]

Please see post #35, I believe it replies to your post adequately. Thx.

Not at all. There’s nothing about any aggressive investigation whatsoever. Shokin can’t point to a single person he was working with in his office to back up his claims. They’re completely unsubstantiated.

 

[kyzr]

Shokin's replacement went after Burisma on tax-related charges and won a judgement of over $7 million dollars (U.S.)...

The decision to fully close all pending legal proceedings and criminal allegations was the result of many months of full cooperation between the Office of the General Prosecutor and the legal team representing the Burisma Group. Further, the Burisma Group agreed that should an investigation determine that the Burisma Group owed outstanding taxes and/or fees that it would, without appeal, pay any and all outstanding taxes, fines and fees. Following the Burisma Group’s full cooperation and willingness to submit to a thorough investigation and its findings, the Pechersk District Court of Kiev obliged the Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine to close the case against Mr. Zlochevskyi and remove him from the wanted list. As a result of the Court’s decision the PGO fulfilled the relevant court order. The Ukrainian court decision is fully consistent with the decision taken by the U.K. court on January 21, 2015 and expert’s opinion based on the results of forensic and economic expertise, dated February 6, 2015. After considering Nikolay Zlocheskyi’s activities in Ukraine from 2002 to 2014, the British court ruled in favor of Nikolay Zlochevskyi and obliged the UK Serious Fraud Office (the SFO) to pay the defendant’s costs. Moreover, as a result of the investigation, Burisma agreed to pay UAH180 millions of tax liabilities.​

All well and good, but...
1. No one from Burisma was prosecuted for corruption
2. No one followed the money to the Bidens
3. Burisma was only spanked for tax related charges, the real corruption was swept under the rug.
4. When you are getting $83,000 a month for no obvious reason, there is something not obvious going on...

 

[kyzr]

Not at all. There’s nothing about any aggressive investigation whatsoever. Shokin can’t point to a single person he was working with in his office to back up his claims. They’re completely unsubstantiated.

1. Shokin's replacement Lutsenko did not prosecute anyone for corruption, the Bidens made sure of that. That's how they earned their $83,000 a month.
2. So neither prosecutor indicted anyone for all of the corruption going on around Burisma, you can say Shokin, who was just getting started, and I can say Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin to cover things up.
3. My main point is that before Zelensky won Poroshenko and other oligarchs ran the corruption. They all got off free the same as Burisma....corruption apparently pays.

 

[colfax_m]

1. Shokin's replacement Lutsenko did not prosecute anyone for corruption, the Bidens made sure of that. That's how they earned their $83,000 a month.
2. So neither prosecutor indicted anyone for all of the corruption going on around Burisma, you can say Shokin, who was just getting started, and I can say Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin to cover things up.
3. My main point is that before Zelensky won Poroshenko and other oligarchs ran the corruption. They all got off free the same as Burisma....corruption apparently pays.

Still nothing to support the contention that Shokin wasn’t corrupt or that this investigation into Burisma was “aggressive” let alone existent. Shokin was an old school prosecutor. He came from the same corrupt environment as the rest of these lousy people. Lutsenko didn’t do much either but we didn’t pick him.

Are you familiar with the diamond prosecutor affair?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Don't know what Trump would have done differently, but you just know it would have been better than what senile "always wrong" Biden is doing.

What is Biden doing?

 

[kyzr]

Still nothing to support the contention that Shokin wasn’t corrupt or that this investigation into Burisma was “aggressive” let alone existent. Shokin was an old school prosecutor. He came from the same corrupt environment as the rest of these lousy people. Lutsenko didn’t do much either but we didn’t pick him.
Are you familiar with the diamond prosecutor affair?

Nope. Just googled it and came up empty.

If Shokin wasn't corrupt why did the Bidens and the US State Department say he was and push the lie? IMHO the $83,000 a month buys a lot of protection from "the big guy". I have a rationale' for why the Bidens got so much cash. You Biden defenders don't have any that makes sense. Is Hunter worth $83,000 a month?????????

 

[kyzr]

What is Biden doing?

Letting Putin take Ukraine. The Moscow mayor's wife's cash is paying off.

 

[colfax_m]

Nope. Just googled it and came up empty.

If Shokin wasn't corrupt why did the Bidens and the US State Department say he was and push the lie? IMHO the $83,000 a month buys a lot of protection from "the big guy". I have a rationale' for why the Bidens got so much cash. You Biden defenders don't have any that makes sense. Is Hunter worth $83,000 a month?????????

“If Shokin wasn’t corrupt”? What’s that supposed to mean. He was corrupt. He was quite corrupt. There was no investigation into Burisma. The PGO would use open investigations into companies to extort them. Whether that was what was going on with Burisma, I don’t know. But the investigation was just not there.

As for the diamond prosecutors, Shokin’s buddies were caught doing exactly what I just said. Opening investigations to extort people. Shokin defended them. There’s a number of articles on the topic.

âCache of diamondsâ: Trump-Biden impeachment fight originates with corrupt chauffeur

Sixty-five diamonds and a shady chauffeur underpin the investigation that doomed former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin and grew into an impeachment investigation targeting President Trump. Shokin earned the enmity of the United States government through his loyalty to a chauffeur who...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Osiris-ODS]

What a US Trap for Russia in Ukraine Might Look Like​

What a US Trap for Russia in Ukraine Might Look Like

The U.S. and NATO are pouring weapons into Ukraine. Kiev says it plans no offensive against Donbass, but if Washington forced one, Moscow would have a major decision to make, writes Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News United States plans to weaken Russia by imposing pu

consortiumnews.com

The U.S. and NATO are pouring weapons into Ukraine. Kiev says it plans no offensive against Donbass, but if Washington forced one, Moscow would have a major decision to make, writes Joe Lauria.

". . . Joe Biden has said a Russian invasion will come in February, when the ground freezes. But it could also be the time for a Kiev offensive to recover the two Donbass provinces. NATO nations are pouring weapons into Ukraine supposedly to defend it against the “invasion.” But the weapons transfers could instead be preparation for an offensive, on orders from Washington. Since the 2014 U.S.-backed coup the U.S. essentially runs the country and all Ukrainian leaders, including Zelensky, serve at the pleasure of the U.S. president.

The ground will also be frozen for Kiev’s forces in February, which was the month of the 2014 coup, while Putin was in Sochi for the Winter Olympics. He is now in Beijing for the 2022 Winter Olympics, away from the command center in Moscow. (The 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing was also the time Georgia instigated its war with Russia against its renegade provinces at the behest of the United States.)

When Kiev stepped up attacks against Donbass in March and October 2021, Russia both time increased its troop deployments near the Ukraine border, which this time is being interpreted by Washington as plans for an “imminent” invasion.

It is an invasion the U.S. absolutely needs to implement its plans to weaken Russia (and ultimately to replace Putin with a pliable leader in the mold of Boris Yeltsin.) As Moscow has never openly threatened such an invasion, the U.S. appears to be devising ways to get it.

The Russian ‘Plot’

On Thursday U.S. intelligence leaked what it says is a diabolical scheme by Russia to stage a provocation in Donbass or even on Russian territory itself to provide a pretext for an invasion. The New York Times reported the lurid details of this supposed plot:



Of course unsaid is that the U.S. can get Kiev to launch an actual attack, even inside Russia, and then say it was the false flag event, to try to prompt the Russian intervention.

As usual, the U.S. “intelligence officials” refused to provide any evidence for such a plot. “Officials would not release any direct evidence of the Russian plan or specify how they learned of it, saying to do so would compromise their sources and methods,” the Times reported.

That prompted AP State Department correspondent Matt Lee to have this exchange with spokesman Ned Price on Thursday. Because Price was unable to produce any evidence he resorted to smearing Lee as taking “solace” in Russian information. . . . "




In the West, we are told that Putin is a dictator. I am not certain that is necessarily so.

From this report?

Kremlin reacts lukewarmly to State Duma’s initiative​

Kremlin reacts lukewarmly to State Duma's initiative - Some unique news of this unique world

The Kremlin on Friday reacted lukewarmly to an initiative by the State Duma to recognise two pro-Russian breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine as independent states, saying it was important to avoid actions that could increase tensions.The State Duma spokesman said Friday it would hold...

suou.de

Admin

January 21, 2022

The Kremlin on Friday reacted lukewarmly to an initiative by the State Duma to recognise two pro-Russian breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine as independent states, saying it was important to avoid actions that could increase tensions.
The State Duma spokesman said Friday it would hold discussions next week on the idea of recognising the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Luhansk People’s Republic.
Kremlin press secretary Dmitry Peskov, speaking ahead of talks in Geneva between senior US and Russian diplomats for spokesmen, said not to try to score political points in such a fragile situation.
Peskov added that the Kremlin did not expect a written answer from U.S. Secretary of State Blinken on Russia’s broad security guarantee demands.
(Reuters)

Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That article from Consortium News? Seems to be right on the money. I remember learning way way back in Junior High, then in High School, and at University, that the whole point of WWI, was to give free people everywhere, the right to self determination. I am tired of western propaganda trying to tell us that the people of Crimea ARE NOT ethnically Russian, or that the people in Donetsk and Luhansk aren't either. If the government in Kiev were not a puppet of Washington, I am not sure it would matter to these people. . . .


But we really are playing with fire here. Russia is not going to let these areas of Europe, which have Russian nationals living in them, be dominiated, and controlled by Washington. And I don't think Putin or Lavrov want to make an issue of it, but I don't really think they are going to be given a choice, other Russians have family and friends that they are connected to. . .

We would accept a Chinese take over of Japan, or the Philippians?

. . or Australia?



Even if Biden, as weak as he is, WANTED to roll over for Chinese, does anyone believe for an instant that the public would allow that? Of course not. There is no way we would ever allow the Chinese to just take Japan or the Philippians.

So, we need to ask the question, if the Americans FORCE Ukraine to crack down on Donbas, and the Russian State Duma, forces the issue on Putin and Lavrov, by overwhelming majority. . . it could cost him the head of the Russian government if he does not acquiesce.

. . . and if he doesn't? His replacement might be even worse.

This is a good example of the diversity of thought and opinion by conservatives. You just don't see this among the left, especially on here. They operate in lock step, like a hive mind.

 

[MisterBeale]

This is a good example of the diversity of thought and opinion by conservatives. You just don't see this among the left, especially on here. They operate in lock step, like a hive mind.

. . . um. . .

But I'm a liberal?

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

By virtue of their mutual interest does nature unite people against violence and war, for the concept of cosmopolitan right does not protect them from it. The spirit of trade cannot coexist with war, and sooner or later this spirit dominates every people. For among all those powers (or means) that belong to a nation, financial power may be the most reliable in forcing nations to pursue the noble cause of peace (though not from moral motives); and wherever in the world war threatens to break out, they will try to head it off through mediation, just as if they were permanently leagued for this purpose.
— Immanuel Kant[101]

 

[Osiris-ODS]

. . . um. . .

But I'm a liberal?

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In political theory, the "classic liberal" means the same thing as modern "conservative," but you know this. You are not a leftist.

 

[MisterBeale]

In political theory, the "classic liberal" means the same thing as modern "conservative," but you know this. You are not a leftist.

True. . . . . leftists have given liberals a bad name. Real liberals have no one to vote for anymore.

 

[Faun]

1. Any link to any "news" organization is not news. CNN is fake news. MSDNC, NBC, most "news" outlets are partisan hacks not giving both sides of the debate.
2. Sowing seeds against a prosecutor is important, especially when you're getting $83,000 a month for a no-show job, correct??
3. The entire point of this thread is that before Zelensky was elected, crooked Poroshenko was president, and probably managed the corruption carefully. This is why IMHO Zelensky should have investigated as Trump requested. Otherwise there are no verified facts, just corruption. WTF happened to Burisma? Soros gets away again...

I didn't link to CNN, MSDNC or NBC.

Try again.

 

[Faun]

All well and good, but...
1. No one from Burisma was prosecuted for corruption
2. No one followed the money to the Bidens
3. Burisma was only spanked for tax related charges, the real corruption was swept under the rug.
4. When you are getting $83,000 a month for no obvious reason, there is something not obvious going on...

Hunter never did anything illegal at Burisma, so there was no reason for him to be investigated. There's no evidence Joe got any money from Burisma, so there was no reason for him to be investigated either. And a monthly salary of $83K is not evidence of corruption.

Don't you have anything concrete to stand on? It appears not.

 

[Faun]

1. Shokin's replacement Lutsenko did not prosecute anyone for corruption, the Bidens made sure of that. That's how they earned their $83,000 a month.
2. So neither prosecutor indicted anyone for all of the corruption going on around Burisma, you can say Shokin, who was just getting started, and I can say Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin to cover things up.
3. My main point is that before Zelensky won Poroshenko and other oligarchs ran the corruption. They all got off free the same as Burisma....corruption apparently pays.

WTF?? How did the Biden's make sure Lutsenko would not prosecute anyone for corruption? Now you're spouting nonsense you're making up.

Shokin was not "just getting started." He was on the Burisma case for two years and did nothing.

 

[AntonToo]

Your 2nd link proved that Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin (who was fired by Biden in March of 2016) did not continue the investigation into Burisma, the Biden's cash cow.
Your link proves rampant corruption by Burisma, Zelensky should have investigated as requested by Trump and followed the money to see how much the Biden's got.
The courts were investigating corruption, not their AG (Lutsenko).

Thats right, Lutsenko was another questionable Poroshenko apointee that got kicked out along with his boss around the time Zelensky won election running on anti-corruption platform. That doesn't negate the fact that Shokin was corrupt and needed to be removed if Ukraine was to shed some of it's notoriety for corruption.

And just because Burisma's owner was involved in shady shit does not mean Biden's son, let alone Joe Biden himself had any involvement.

 

[Faun]

Nope. Just googled it and came up empty.

If Shokin wasn't corrupt why did the Bidens and the US State Department say he was and push the lie? IMHO the $83,000 a month buys a lot of protection from "the big guy". I have a rationale' for why the Bidens got so much cash. You Biden defenders don't have any that makes sense. Is Hunter worth $83,000 a month?????????

His office was certainly corrupt...

Ukraine corruption probe finds diamonds, cash, Kalashnikov

Two high-ranking Ukrainian judicial officials have been detained on suspicion of corruption and a large quantity of diamonds, $400,000 in cash and a Kalashnikov were found during raids on their homes, Ukraine's SBU security service said on Monday.

www.reuters.com