You are American WW2 pilot, bad luck, Which concentration camp ´d you prefer? German or Stalin´s GUL

[Litwin]

You are American WW2 pilot (not Jewish) , bad luck, Which concentration camp ´d you prefer ?
1) a German one or
2) Stalin´s GULAG

ps please explain your choice

some info: Brutal!!! Drawings from the GULAG -

A prisoner who went on hunger strike is being forcefully fed through his nostril. According to laws of Soviet humanism, only those who had normal body temperature (36.6…37 C) could be shot.

“Sprinkle ‘im with holy water for a better afterlife. I’ll give him snow so bulls won’t walk into him too soon!”

In the Gulag, kingpins were privileged similarly to modern bureaucrats.

Repeatedly convicted felons were about 3 steps higher than “enemies of the people” in criminal hierarchy. They usually weren’t working, having small-time thieves as servants and work results from common inmates. Those felons helped to eliminate “enemies of the people”…

By the order of the prosecutor general Vyshinsky, any methods were considered “good” to get the confession. NKVD staff used brutal tortures with pump, soldering iron, bottle (shoved into vagina and anus), rats (placed in the heated bucket under victim’s bare buttocks) etc.

Execution by the “court of thieves” sentence in one of ITL’s (Gulag abbreviation for labor penitentiary camps)

 

[whitehall]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

 

[Litwin]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

did it stop Koba from Killing the Americans (including WW2 pilots) , or turning them into literally biblical times slaves in GULAG?

"
"Clearly, there were a lot of Americans washing around the gulag, but it is unimaginable that any of the World War II prisoners are still alive," said Paul M. Cole, who wrote a three-volume report for the Rand Corporation in 1994 on American prisoners from World War II, the Korean War and the cold war who were held in the Soviet Union.

Family members of Americans missing in Korea and in the cold war downings are increasingly demanding answers from the bilateral research group, the U.S.-Russian Joint Commission on P.O.W./M.I.A.'s.

"I definitely believe that some survived," said Patricia Lively Dickinson, a Delaware resident, who believes that her brother, Jack D. Lively, a Navy airman who was shot down in 1951, was one of the four Americans that Mr. Trotsenko saw at the military hospital. "I feel that Jack's files are in the K.G.B. files."

Bruce Sanderson, a North Dakota steelworker, also believes that his father, Lieut. Warren Sanderson, survived the shooting down of his reconnaissance plane near Vladivostok in 1953."

Decades Later, Tales of Americans in Soviet Jails

 

[Pilot1]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

You don't know much about the Russians, do you? Especially the Soviet Union era Russians. I'd much rather have been in a German POW camp than anywhere near a Russian Gulag.

Do a little research about the U.S. B-29 crews that landed in Russia during WWII when they were our "allies".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

 

[Litwin]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

"The largest group of Americans imprisoned in the Soviet Union included more than 730 pilots and other airmen who either made "forced landings on Soviet territory" or were shot down on Cold War spy flights. Volkogonov was not specific as to their fates but spoke generally about prisoners being interned in labor camps, with some being executed and others forced to eventually renounce their American citizenship." Soviets Executed GIs After WWII : Prisoners: Other Americans were forced to renounce citizenship, Yeltsin writes Senate panel. But no sign of POWs from Korea, Vietnam wars found, Russian says.

"As war spread across the world at the end of 1941, the Soviet Union found itself between a rock known as Nazi Germany and a hard place called imperial Japan. With all its forces battling Germany in the west, the Soviet Union had to keep peace on its isolated and vulnerable eastern borders. To avoid risking its status as a neutral country in the war between the United States and Japan, the Soviet Union interned many American flyers who crashed or made emergency landings in Soviet territory after bombing Japanese targets.
This is the long-secret and nearly forgotten story of how the Soviet commissariat for internal affairs interned 291 young Americans in Siberia and, at the risk of war on a second front, eventually smuggled four groups of them to south central Asia and finally across the Iranian border.

Official U.S. military records of the internments are impersonal and sketchy. To tell the story in its entirety, Otis Hays, Jr., sought out surviving airmen and found some who had smuggled rudimentary diaries out of the Soviet Union and helped piece together the tale.
" https://www.amazon.com/Home-Siberia-Odysseys-Williams-Ford-University/dp/1585440108&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Litwin]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

You don't know much about the Russians, do you? Especially the Soviet Union era Russians. I'd much rather have been in a German POW camp than anywhere near a Russian Gulag.

Do a little research about the U.S. B-29 crews that landed in Russia during WWII when they were our "allies".

you are 100% right. i know the story about an African - american POW in GULAG you just froze to death there . just look at this place, ITS A PURE HELL

 

[Pilot1]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

Even Boris Yeltsin admitted it. Also see what Litwin posted.

WASHINGTON -- The Soviet Union under dictator Josef V. Stalin "summarily executed" some U.S. prisoners after World War II and forced others, some of whom are still alive, to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin said in a letter given to a Senate committee yesterday.

Soviets held U.S. POWs, Yeltsin says Some were killed after war, some stayed, he says

You sir owe me an apology.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

Even Boris Yeltsin admitted it. Also see what Litwin posted.

WASHINGTON -- The Soviet Union under dictator Josef V. Stalin "summarily executed" some U.S. prisoners after World War II and forced others, some of whom are still alive, to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin said in a letter given to a Senate committee yesterday.

Soviets held U.S. POWs, Yeltsin says Some were killed after war, some stayed, he says

You sir owe me an apology.

You did as I told you to do, which was wise, because I told you the truth above about what happened after the war, not during it. I owe you the truth, which I guided you to, nothing more.

 

[Litwin]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

Even Boris Yeltsin admitted it. Also see what Litwin posted.

WASHINGTON -- The Soviet Union under dictator Josef V. Stalin "summarily executed" some U.S. prisoners after World War II and forced others, some of whom are still alive, to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin said in a letter given to a Senate committee yesterday.

Soviets held U.S. POWs, Yeltsin says Some were killed after war, some stayed, he says

You sir owe me an apology.

You did as I told you to do, which was wise, because I told you the truth above about what happened after the war, not during it. I owe you the truth, which I guided you to, nothing more.

whats about my question ?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

Even Boris Yeltsin admitted it. Also see what Litwin posted.

WASHINGTON -- The Soviet Union under dictator Josef V. Stalin "summarily executed" some U.S. prisoners after World War II and forced others, some of whom are still alive, to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin said in a letter given to a Senate committee yesterday.

Soviets held U.S. POWs, Yeltsin says Some were killed after war, some stayed, he says

You sir owe me an apology.

You did as I told you to do, which was wise, because I told you the truth above about what happened after the war, not during it. I owe you the truth, which I guided you to, nothing more.

whats about my question ?

It was answered. Move along.

 

[whitehall]

Is it just a crazy left wing fantasy that American pilots were held in Russian gulags during WW2 while Russia was receiving U.S. aid as an American ally? It's a serious charge and my guess it's made by idiotic pop-culture educated hate mongers who have no concept of 20th century history.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You are American WW2 pilot (not Jewish) , bad luck, Which concentration camp ´d you prefer ?
1) a German one or
2) Stalin´s GULAG

ps please explain your choice

some info: Brutal!!! Drawings from the GULAG -

A prisoner who went on hunger strike is being forcefully fed through his nostril. According to laws of Soviet humanism, only those who had normal body temperature (36.6…37 C) could be shot.

“Sprinkle ‘im with holy water for a better afterlife. I’ll give him snow so bulls won’t walk into him too soon!”

In the Gulag, kingpins were privileged similarly to modern bureaucrats.

Repeatedly convicted felons were about 3 steps higher than “enemies of the people” in criminal hierarchy. They usually weren’t working, having small-time thieves as servants and work results from common inmates. Those felons helped to eliminate “enemies of the people”…

By the order of the prosecutor general Vyshinsky, any methods were considered “good” to get the confession. NKVD staff used brutal tortures with pump, soldering iron, bottle (shoved into vagina and anus), rats (placed in the heated bucket under victim’s bare buttocks) etc.

Execution by the “court of thieves” sentence in one of ITL’s (Gulag abbreviation for labor penitentiary camps)

As already correctly noted: the United States and Soviet Union were allies during the Second World War.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Pilot1, please give us your sources on American military personnel in USSR during WWII.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Some American POWs less than two dozen may have been xfrd from North Korea before the truce in 1953 to the USSR. Their fates are unknown.

Even Boris Yeltsin admitted it. Also see what Litwin posted.

WASHINGTON -- The Soviet Union under dictator Josef V. Stalin "summarily executed" some U.S. prisoners after World War II and forced others, some of whom are still alive, to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin said in a letter given to a Senate committee yesterday.

Soviets held U.S. POWs, Yeltsin says Some were killed after war, some stayed, he says

You sir owe me an apology.

You did as I told you to do, which was wise, because I told you the truth above about what happened after the war, not during it. I owe you the truth, which I guided you to, nothing more.

whats about my question ?

Your question is ignorant idiocy.

 

[Pilot1]

As already correctly noted: the United States and Soviet Union were allies during the Second World War.

Technically yes, and we GAVE them lots of war materials. However, as the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and that aptly describes our tenuous relationship with the USSR. They knew we'd be at odds after WWII was over, and that is why the kept B-29 bombers, and their crews. They totally reverse engineered the B-29 down to the Boeing writing on the rudder pedals to have a strategic bomber after the war.

The USSR may have been our ally, but they certainly weren't our friend, and became a quick enemy upon war's end.

Russian B-29 Clone — The TU-4 Story, by Wayland Mayo, Page 10

 

[Litwin]

You are American WW2 pilot (not Jewish) , bad luck, Which concentration camp ´d you prefer ?
1) a German one or
2) Stalin´s GULAG

ps please explain your choice

some info: Brutal!!! Drawings from the GULAG -

A prisoner who went on hunger strike is being forcefully fed through his nostril. According to laws of Soviet humanism, only those who had normal body temperature (36.6…37 C) could be shot.

“Sprinkle ‘im with holy water for a better afterlife. I’ll give him snow so bulls won’t walk into him too soon!”

In the Gulag, kingpins were privileged similarly to modern bureaucrats.

Repeatedly convicted felons were about 3 steps higher than “enemies of the people” in criminal hierarchy. They usually weren’t working, having small-time thieves as servants and work results from common inmates. Those felons helped to eliminate “enemies of the people”…

By the order of the prosecutor general Vyshinsky, any methods were considered “good” to get the confession. NKVD staff used brutal tortures with pump, soldering iron, bottle (shoved into vagina and anus), rats (placed in the heated bucket under victim’s bare buttocks) etc.

Execution by the “court of thieves” sentence in one of ITL’s (Gulag abbreviation for labor penitentiary camps)

As already correctly noted: the United States and Soviet Union were allies during the Second World War.

did it Stop Koba from killing the Americans?

 

[Litwin]

As already correctly noted: the United States and Soviet Union were allies during the Second World War.

Technically yes, and we GAVE them lots of war materials. However, as the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and that aptly describes our tenuous relationship with the USSR. They knew we'd be at odds after WWII was over, and that is why the kept B-29 bombers, and their crews. They totally reverse engineered the B-29 down to the Boeing writing on the rudder pedals to have a strategic bomber after the war.

The USSR may have been our ally, but they certainly weren't our friend, and became a quick enemy upon war's end.

Russian B-29 Clone — The TU-4 Story, by Wayland Mayo, Page 10

it was not a real alliance, actually . for instance koba always supported commie - terrorists as well west always supported anti - Stalinist partisans in Belarus, Ukraine, Baltics, etc. (from 1944 for sure)

 

[Weatherman2020]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

Russia kept our boys as prisoners and did not return many after the war.

 

[Litwin]

Is it just a crazy left wing fantasy that American pilots were held in Russian gulags during WW2 while Russia was receiving U.S. aid as an American ally? It's a serious charge and my guess it's made by idiotic pop-culture educated hate mongers who have no concept of 20th century history.

hi Stalinist, here is some facts :

"
This is the fifth and final part in a series based on the new book American Betrayal: The Secret Assault on Our Nation’s Character (St. Martin’s Press) by Diana West.
On March 3, 1945, under prodding from both the senior US military commander and US ambassador in Moscow, FDR cabled Stalin to request “urgently” that provisions be made for ten American rescue crews to move in and out of Soviet-captured territories to evacuate liberated American prisoners or war, many of whom required medical attention. With uncharacteristic punch, FDR underscored his request as being “of the greatest importance.”

On March 5, 1945, Stalin replied: Nyet. There were no groups of American ex-POWs in the Red zone, so no flights necessary. The Soviets would tell the British the same thing about an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 British ex-prisoners.

The US ambassador, Averill Harriman, knew Stalin was lying. He was hearing about hundreds, even thousands of lost American men roaming Soviet-held territory, and he was hearing straight from some who had made their way to Moscow.

On March 6, 1945, the Soviets forcibly took over Romania, shredding the Yalta agreement.

On March 8, 1945, Harriman cabled FDR that he had positive proof that Stalin’s statement regarding American POWs “was not repeat not true.” He stated that some three to four thousand Americans had been freed from German POW camps and were still unaccounted for.

On March 16, 1945, Churchill cabled FDR. “At present all entry into Poland has been barred to our representatives… This extends even to the liaison officers, British and American, who were to help in bringing out rescued prisoners of war… There is no doubt in my mind that the Soviets fear much our seeing what is going on in Poland.”

FDR would cable Stalin again on the matter. Following another rebuke – Stalin insisted that the remaining 17 American POWs in Red territory were en route home – FDR dropped the matter. He died a few weeks later.

This tense, behind the scenes discussion remained mostly unbeknownst to the American people for decades.

On May 12, 1945, the AP filed a startling report from Allied headquarters in Europe. “Nearly half of the estimated 200,000 British and 76,000 American prisoners of war still in Germany are believed to be within the Russian zone of occupation and Supreme Headquarters has twice requested a meeting to arrange their return.”

On May 19, 1945, Supreme Commander Eisenhower signed a cable stating: “Numbers of US prisoners estimated in Russian control 25,000.”

On May 22, 1945, Soviet and American delegations met in Halle, France, to settle the POW matter. Maj. Gen. R. W. Barker would write a chilling memo, noting that the Americans in Soviet custody were “in effect being held hostage”; “that we may find a reluctance to return them all”; and they might not come home for an “appreciable time to come.”

On May 30, 1945, the Kenner Memorandum, named for Gen. Albert Kenner, Eisenhower’s surgeon general at Allied headquarters, issued a memo stating that 20,000 American and 20,000 British soldiers remained in Soviet hands, along with literally hundreds of thousands of European nationals.

On May 31, 1945, the top US commander in Moscow, Maj. Gen. John R. Deane, wrote a top secret letter to his Soviet counterpart stating that 15,597 American soldiers were believed to be under Soviet control. That same day, the War Department in Washington announced “substantially all” American soldiers taken prisoner in Europe had been accounted for.

On June 1, 1945, Eisenhower signed a cable that read: “It is now estimated that only small numbers of U.S. prisoners of war still remain in Russian hands.”

“In other words,” states the May 23, 1991, US Senate Foreign Relations Committee Minority Report on POW/MIA policy, “on June 1, 1945, the US government’s public position was that most America GIs taken prisoner have come home and been repatriated, even though the cable traffic for the previous fortnight was reporting between 15,000 and 20,000 still held.”

What happened to these men?

American betrayal."Did Uncle Sam Leave 15,000 to 20,000 GIs in Stalin's Hands? | Breitbart

 

[Litwin]

Umm, Russia was a valued U.S. Ally during WW2 and FDR referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe.

Russia kept our boys as prisoners and did not return many after the war.

+1
"
Official says hundreds of U.S. citizens likely died in gulags"
CNN.com - Official says hundreds of U.S. citizens likely died in gulags - Feb 11, 2005