Would you vote for Bugs Bunny over Donald Trump?

[flacaltenn]

People are talking about the prospect of Oprah winning. I don't care whether she runs against Donald Trump. I care only that, if Trump lasts for four years, that someone runs against him, be it in a primary or general election, they have my vote. I'm even considering placing the money I save due to H.R. 1-2018 into a fund so I can donate every cent of it along with the interest it earns to whoever opposes Trump.

And before anyone starts on Liberal "this" and Conservative "that," I don't care if Conservative or Liberal defeats Trump; I care only that Trump be ousted (non-violently) ASAP.


EDIT/NOTICE:

Stay on topic when posting in this thread. This thread asks one question and one question only. It does not ask about or mention as thread subjects any politician or potential politicians any persons other than Oprah and Donald Trump; thus other humans alive or dead are not part of the discussion topic. Feel free to create your own thread to discuss any or all of those other individuals. And, no, I'm not proscribing what one may say about the thread topic, I'm stating what it is and is not and asking you simply make posts that are on topic.​

When your voting is motivated SOLELY by choosing less evil -- you're part of the systemic rot in the American political system. When acheiving power and maintaining power is MORE important than leadership, problem solving, and PRINCIPLES -- you're doing more damage to confidence in the political process than Putin could ever DREAM of.. When the only choices you are GIVEN (or an OP restricts you to) are MEGLOMANIACAL POWER WHORES -- it's time to step off the 2 party sinking wreckage and start voting for "losers" who HAVE principles, policies, leadership and HUMILITY..

So -- Spend your windfall wisely.. Your current "threat" to support Bugs Bunny is just the screaming from the upper deck of a rapidly sinking ship.. You're doing more damage than ANY "Russian interference" in our election process.

do you know how many times I've heard RW's say "Trump was the lesser of two evils "


carry on ..........

These are all people who think the ONLY CHOICES for leadership MUST COME from 2 old, inept, corrupt, egotistical parties.. I ---- am NOT one of those. Any fool could smell American decay from the choices that the Dems/Reps gave you in the last election. SMART folks --- not subservient to 2 party politics, could just easily reject BOTH of those power whores.

Indies/3rd party folks are GROWING. The Brand Name faithful are shrinking. The REASON is -- the poor quality of leadership that is offered.

the exact reason I used my write in option.

Congrats --- You just neutralized the political dysfunction and Putin in one shot. THAT vote counts... So would "None of the Above"... Or running more principled people as Indies or 3rd party.. Except in California which has implemented the "Top 2" primary system and EXCLUDED all other names from General ballots to cement their One Party Rule. Those folks are just screwed.. Not even write-ins allowed in the Socialist Republic of Cali any more.

 

[flacaltenn]

When your voting is motivated SOLELY by choosing less evil -- you're part of the systemic rot in the American political system. When acheiving power and maintaining power is MORE important than leadership, problem solving, and PRINCIPLES -- you're doing more damage to confidence in the political process than Putin could ever DREAM of.. When the only choices you are GIVEN (or an OP restricts you to) are MEGLOMANIACAL POWER WHORES -- it's time to step off the 2 party sinking wreckage and start voting for "losers" who HAVE principles, policies, leadership and HUMILITY..

So -- Spend your windfall wisely.. Your current "threat" to support Bugs Bunny is just the screaming from the upper deck of a rapidly sinking ship.. You're doing more damage than ANY "Russian interference" in our election process.

so they should let evil stay in office?

and no, the Russians are still doing damage to our system.

They (YOU) should stop voting for "winners" and start being more discriminating about HOW political contests are run. Discussing tabloid details instead of policy GUARANTEES you will get more shitty choices.

If Bugs Bunny was a humble public servant with ideas and radical solutions to problems - with a history of accurate analysis and predictions -- vote for him. If you ONLY vote out of name recognition or because they "CAN win" .. We all lose biggly. We can't be losing this much each time and SURVIVE as a World power.

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

Exactly. You're the problem. Not Bugs Bunny. Not Putin. The only WASTED VOTES are the ones cast for ridiculous choices out of FEAR of the other ones.

it isn't fear. it's reason. just like idiots shouldn't have voted for jill stein who took 2% points.

you keep stamping your feet. I don't do silliness. let me know when you have a decent third party and we'll talk.

Jill Stein was a CHOICE. THOSE VOTES sent a message. And helped to defeat a MAJOR party candidate. THOSE people -- had their voices heard. YOU OTH --- were a loser. Because you WOULD NOT "waste a vote"..

 

[flacaltenn]

When your voting is motivated SOLELY by choosing less evil -- you're part of the systemic rot in the American political system. When acheiving power and maintaining power is MORE important than leadership, problem solving, and PRINCIPLES -- you're doing more damage to confidence in the political process than Putin could ever DREAM of.. When the only choices you are GIVEN (or an OP restricts you to) are MEGLOMANIACAL POWER WHORES -- it's time to step off the 2 party sinking wreckage and start voting for "losers" who HAVE principles, policies, leadership and HUMILITY..

So -- Spend your windfall wisely.. Your current "threat" to support Bugs Bunny is just the screaming from the upper deck of a rapidly sinking ship.. You're doing more damage than ANY "Russian interference" in our election process.

so they should let evil stay in office?

and no, the Russians are still doing damage to our system.

They (YOU) should stop voting for "winners" and start being more discriminating about HOW political contests are run. Discussing tabloid details instead of policy GUARANTEES you will get more shitty choices.

If Bugs Bunny was a humble public servant with ideas and radical solutions to problems - with a history of accurate analysis and predictions -- vote for him. If you ONLY vote out of name recognition or because they "CAN win" .. We all lose biggly. We can't be losing this much each time and SURVIVE as a World power.

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

Exactly. You're the problem. Not Bugs Bunny. Not Putin. The only WASTED VOTES are the ones cast for ridiculous choices out of FEAR of the other ones.

it isn't fear. it's reason. just like idiots shouldn't have voted for jill stein who took 2% points.

you keep stamping your feet. I don't do silliness. let me know when you have a decent third party and we'll talk.

You'll have viable 3rd parties and Indie choices, when folks like you stop VOTING for "winners" and start voting for LEADERSHIP and PRINCIPLES instead. Like those Jill Stein voters. Or Bernie voters. Or my Libertarian Party..

 

[usmbguest5318]

People are talking about the prospect of Oprah winning. I don't care whether she runs against Donald Trump. I care only that, if Trump lasts for four years, that someone runs against him, be it in a primary or general election, they have my vote. I'm even considering placing the money I save due to H.R. 1-2018 into a fund so I can donate every cent of it along with the interest it earns to whoever opposes Trump.

And before anyone starts on Liberal "this" and Conservative "that," I don't care if Conservative or Liberal defeats Trump; I care only that Trump be ousted (non-violently) ASAP.


EDIT/NOTICE:

Stay on topic when posting in this thread. This thread asks one question and one question only. It does not ask about or mention as thread subjects any politician or potential politicians any persons other than Oprah and Donald Trump; thus other humans alive or dead are not part of the discussion topic. Feel free to create your own thread to discuss any or all of those other individuals. And, no, I'm not proscribing what one may say about the thread topic, I'm stating what it is and is not and asking you simply make posts that are on topic.​

When your voting is motivated SOLELY by choosing less evil -- you're part of the systemic rot in the American political system. When acheiving power and maintaining power is MORE important than leadership, problem solving, and PRINCIPLES -- you're doing more damage to confidence in the political process than Putin could ever DREAM of.. When the only choices you are GIVEN (or an OP restricts you to) are MEGLOMANIACAL POWER WHORES -- it's time to step off the 2 party sinking wreckage and start voting for "losers" who HAVE principles, policies, leadership and HUMILITY..

So -- Spend your windfall wisely.. Your current "threat" to support Bugs Bunny is just the screaming from the upper deck of a rapidly sinking ship.. You're doing more damage than ANY "Russian interference" in our election process.

do you know how many times I've heard RW's say "Trump was the lesser of two evils "


carry on ..........

do you know how many times I've heard RW's say "Trump was the lesser of two evils "

You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.
-- Ben Goldacre, Bad Science​

OT:

Well, take comfort in knowing that people who cleave to the "lesser of two evils" (LOTE) line of argument as a justification or explanation (either being sometimes presented with a self-exculpating tone) their choice for political candidates, and particularly presidential ones, are one or more of the following:

• Too damned lazy (i.e., unwilling) to formulate a sound basis for their choice,
• Too feeble minded to realize the insipidity of the LOTE line of so-called thought,
• Condescending to their audience, thinking its members too are not aware of the irrationality of that line of argument, and/or
• Inviting their audience to abjure all apt acumen and join them in acquiescing to drama-driven decision making.

In strict logic terms, the LOTE is a compound fallacy that is part ad hominem, part excluded middle/false dichotomy, part red herring, and part equivocation via "moral equivalence." [1] Myriad philosophers, economists, doctors, and other relatively learned people have written about the absurdity of using the LOTE line when choosing for whom to vote when there are in fact multiple choices.

• Exposing the Lesser of Two Evils Fallacy
• The Lesser of Two Evils
  
• Why Voting for the Lesser of Two Evils Is a Waste of Your Vote

Tobin Duby offers a succinct and easily understood explication of why the LOTE argument fails with regard specifically to voting for Presidents in the U.S. I'm only going to share the summary reasons.

• The “Lesser of Two Evils” reasoning fails to differentiate the person from his policies.
  
• The “Lesser of Two Evils” reasoning restricts the argument to the current presidential term.
  
• The “Lesser of Two Evils” reasoning assumes that there are only two options.

Members who demure from presenting intrinsically weak arguments and who aren't aware of the irrationality implicit in the LOTE argument as it applies to voting in elections can click the linked text in the preceding sentence and read the whole of his essay. (Reading the other essays is also a good idea, but doing so is probably more "work" (LOL) than many here will undertake.)


Note:

1. "Only the profoundly arid can conjure compound absurdities and have no better sense than to share them with others."
   
   The quote above is what my high school English teacher said to us prior to each English exam and as part of his instructions for papers he instructed us to compose. At my school, logic was formally taught as part of English class and we were held accountable for applying what we learned about logic not only in English class, but also in our other classes, most especially math, science, history and comparative religion. The P.E. teachers didn't give us much grief for not thinking rationally when playing sports; I guess they figured losing at the competitive sport in which we were involved was sufficient.

 

[usmbguest5318]

People are talking about the prospect of Oprah winning. I don't care whether she runs against Donald Trump. I care only that, if Trump lasts for four years, that someone runs against him, be it in a primary or general election, they have my vote. I'm even considering placing the money I save due to H.R. 1-2018 into a fund so I can donate every cent of it along with the interest it earns to whoever opposes Trump.

And before anyone starts on Liberal "this" and Conservative "that," I don't care if Conservative or Liberal defeats Trump; I care only that Trump be ousted (non-violently) ASAP.


EDIT/NOTICE:

Stay on topic when posting in this thread. This thread asks one question and one question only. It does not ask about or mention as thread subjects any politician or potential politicians any persons other than Oprah and Donald Trump; thus other humans alive or dead are not part of the discussion topic. Feel free to create your own thread to discuss any or all of those other individuals. And, no, I'm not proscribing what one may say about the thread topic, I'm stating what it is and is not and asking you simply make posts that are on topic.​

When your voting is motivated SOLELY by choosing less evil -- you're part of the systemic rot in the American political system. When acheiving power and maintaining power is MORE important than leadership, problem solving, and PRINCIPLES -- you're doing more damage to confidence in the political process than Putin could ever DREAM of.. When the only choices you are GIVEN (or an OP restricts you to) are MEGLOMANIACAL POWER WHORES -- it's time to step off the 2 party sinking wreckage and start voting for "losers" who HAVE principles, policies, leadership and HUMILITY..

So -- Spend your windfall wisely.. Your current "threat" to support Bugs Bunny is just the screaming from the upper deck of a rapidly sinking ship.. You're doing more damage than ANY "Russian interference" in our election process.

so they should let evil stay in office?

and no, the Russians are still doing damage to our system.

They (YOU) should stop voting for "winners" and start being more discriminating about HOW political contests are run. Discussing tabloid details instead of policy GUARANTEES you will get more shitty choices.

If Bugs Bunny was a humble public servant with ideas and radical solutions to problems - with a history of accurate analysis and predictions -- vote for him. If you ONLY vote out of name recognition or because they "CAN win" .. We all lose biggly. We can't be losing this much each time and SURVIVE as a World power.

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

I don't waste my vote.

• Why Voting for the Lesser of Two Evils Is a Waste of Your Vote

 

[Hal-9000]

People are talking about the prospect of Oprah winning. I don't care whether she runs against Donald Trump. I care only that, if Trump lasts for four years, that someone runs against him, be it in a primary or general election, they have my vote. I'm even considering placing the money I save due to H.R. 1-2018 into a fund so I can donate every cent of it along with the interest it earns to whoever opposes Trump.

And before anyone starts on Liberal "this" and Conservative "that," I don't care if Conservative or Liberal defeats Trump; I care only that Trump be ousted (non-violently) ASAP.


EDIT/NOTICE:

Stay on topic when posting in this thread. This thread asks one question and one question only. It does not ask about or mention as thread subjects any politician or potential politicians any persons other than Oprah and Donald Trump; thus other humans alive or dead are not part of the discussion topic. Feel free to create your own thread to discuss any or all of those other individuals. And, no, I'm not proscribing what one may say about the thread topic, I'm stating what it is and is not and asking you simply make posts that are on topic.​

No but Nancy Pelosi would

 

[Pogo]

so they should let evil stay in office?

and no, the Russians are still doing damage to our system.

They (YOU) should stop voting for "winners" and start being more discriminating about HOW political contests are run. Discussing tabloid details instead of policy GUARANTEES you will get more shitty choices.

If Bugs Bunny was a humble public servant with ideas and radical solutions to problems - with a history of accurate analysis and predictions -- vote for him. If you ONLY vote out of name recognition or because they "CAN win" .. We all lose biggly. We can't be losing this much each time and SURVIVE as a World power.

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

Exactly. You're the problem. Not Bugs Bunny. Not Putin. The only WASTED VOTES are the ones cast for ridiculous choices out of FEAR of the other ones.

it isn't fear. it's reason. just like idiots shouldn't have voted for jill stein who took 2% points.

you keep stamping your feet. I don't do silliness. let me know when you have a decent third party and we'll talk.

Jill Stein was a CHOICE. THOSE VOTES sent a message. And helped to defeat a MAJOR party candidate. THOSE people -- had their voices heard. YOU OTH --- were a loser. Because you WOULD NOT "waste a vote"..

EVERYBODY who lives in a so-called "red" or so-called "blue" state wastes their time voting at all, since that state is voting the way it's voting regardless of what any single voter does. Yet those very voters are the only ones in any position TO vote 3P, and even then it's nothing more than a drop-in-the-bucket protest against the system I just described. I've done it and it's unsatisfying to say the least.

On the other hand everybody who lives in a so-called "battleground" state actually has a say for a few hours, swaying which way that state will go, after which time half of them will have had their vote wasted anyway, since the state, like the others, will then go to Congress and lie its ass off that that state's vote was "unanimous". For those few hours on election day when there is any voice at all, while those voters don't know if the state will turn red or blue, they DO know it will be one of the two, ergo if you don't want the red you vote blue to block, and vice versa, in what amounts to nothing more than a grand game of Tic Tac Toe.

---- which is precisely why we're perpetually doomed to vote for the lesser of two evils. Because in effect two evils are all that's allowed to run. Oh we pretend they've got competition but that's a farce. The WTA system ensures they do not and will not.

"Red states", "Blue states" and "Swing states" --- three bullshit concepts that would not exist at all without the corruption of the WTA EC system that keeps that puppet show in place and ensures the perpetuation of the Duopoly, Forever, full stop.

That is where the fix is needed. As long as that's permitted to continue it will continue to shut out any possibility of a 3P ever even vaguely challenging the Duopoly. And the Duopoly knows it. So anybody who seriously wants a 3P to have a chance --- that is step one.

Bernie Sanders could see that -- that's why he tried to run as a Democrat.

 

[jillian]

They (YOU) should stop voting for "winners" and start being more discriminating about HOW political contests are run. Discussing tabloid details instead of policy GUARANTEES you will get more shitty choices.

If Bugs Bunny was a humble public servant with ideas and radical solutions to problems - with a history of accurate analysis and predictions -- vote for him. If you ONLY vote out of name recognition or because they "CAN win" .. We all lose biggly. We can't be losing this much each time and SURVIVE as a World power.

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

Exactly. You're the problem. Not Bugs Bunny. Not Putin. The only WASTED VOTES are the ones cast for ridiculous choices out of FEAR of the other ones.

it isn't fear. it's reason. just like idiots shouldn't have voted for jill stein who took 2% points.

you keep stamping your feet. I don't do silliness. let me know when you have a decent third party and we'll talk.

Jill Stein was a CHOICE. THOSE VOTES sent a message. And helped to defeat a MAJOR party candidate. THOSE people -- had their voices heard. YOU OTH --- were a loser. Because you WOULD NOT "waste a vote"..

EVERYBODY who lives in a so-called "red" or so-called "blue" state wastes their time voting at all, since that state is voting the way it's voting regardless of what any single voter does. Yet those very voters are the only ones in any position TO vote 3P, and even then it's nothing more than a drop-in-the-bucket protest against the system I just described. I've done it and it's unsatisfying to say the least.

On the other hand everybody who lives in a so-called "battleground" state actually has a say for a few hours, swaying which way that state will go, after which time half of them will have had their vote wasted anyway, since the state, like the others, will then go to Congress and lie its ass off that that state's vote was "unanimous". For those few hours on election day when there is any voice at all, while those voters don't know if the state will turn red or blue, they DO know it will be one of the two, ergo if you don't want the red you vote blue to block, and vice versa, in what amounts to nothing more than a grand game of Tic Tac Toe.

---- which is precisely why we're perpetually doomed to vote for the lesser of two evils. Because in effect two evils are all that's allowed to run. Oh we pretend they've got competition but that's a farce. The WTA system ensures they do not and will not.

"Red states", "Blue states" and "Swing states" --- three bullshit concepts that would not exist at all without the corruption of the WTA EC system that keeps that puppet show in place and ensures the perpetuation of the Duopoly, Forever, full stop.

That is where the fix is needed. As long as that's permitted to continue it will continue to shut out any possibility of a 3P ever even vaguely challenging the Duopoly. And the Duopoly knows it. So anybody who seriously wants a 3P to have a chance --- that is step one.

Bernie Sanders could see that -- that's why he tried to run as a Democrat.

Maybe he should have registers as one

 

[Pogo]

I don't waste my vote. Wasted votes allow this psycho to be president. And unless the majority party actually does something about Russian interference, then they already have destroyed our system....

Exactly. You're the problem. Not Bugs Bunny. Not Putin. The only WASTED VOTES are the ones cast for ridiculous choices out of FEAR of the other ones.

it isn't fear. it's reason. just like idiots shouldn't have voted for jill stein who took 2% points.

you keep stamping your feet. I don't do silliness. let me know when you have a decent third party and we'll talk.

Jill Stein was a CHOICE. THOSE VOTES sent a message. And helped to defeat a MAJOR party candidate. THOSE people -- had their voices heard. YOU OTH --- were a loser. Because you WOULD NOT "waste a vote"..

EVERYBODY who lives in a so-called "red" or so-called "blue" state wastes their time voting at all, since that state is voting the way it's voting regardless of what any single voter does. Yet those very voters are the only ones in any position TO vote 3P, and even then it's nothing more than a drop-in-the-bucket protest against the system I just described. I've done it and it's unsatisfying to say the least.

On the other hand everybody who lives in a so-called "battleground" state actually has a say for a few hours, swaying which way that state will go, after which time half of them will have had their vote wasted anyway, since the state, like the others, will then go to Congress and lie its ass off that that state's vote was "unanimous". For those few hours on election day when there is any voice at all, while those voters don't know if the state will turn red or blue, they DO know it will be one of the two, ergo if you don't want the red you vote blue to block, and vice versa, in what amounts to nothing more than a grand game of Tic Tac Toe.

---- which is precisely why we're perpetually doomed to vote for the lesser of two evils. Because in effect two evils are all that's allowed to run. Oh we pretend they've got competition but that's a farce. The WTA system ensures they do not and will not.

"Red states", "Blue states" and "Swing states" --- three bullshit concepts that would not exist at all without the corruption of the WTA EC system that keeps that puppet show in place and ensures the perpetuation of the Duopoly, Forever, full stop.

That is where the fix is needed. As long as that's permitted to continue it will continue to shut out any possibility of a 3P ever even vaguely challenging the Duopoly. And the Duopoly knows it. So anybody who seriously wants a 3P to have a chance --- that is step one.

Bernie Sanders could see that -- that's why he tried to run as a Democrat.

Maybe he should have registers as one

Actually there's no party registration in Vermont. It's technically a state full of Independents.

 

[flacaltenn]

EVERYBODY who lives in a so-called "red" or so-called "blue" state wastes their time voting at all, since that state is voting the way it's voting regardless of what any single voter does. Yet those very voters are the only ones in any position TO vote 3P, and even then it's nothing more than a drop-in-the-bucket protest against the system I just described. I've done it and it's unsatisfying to say the least.

This is NOT necessarily the case. The majority parties in those states get arrogant, lazy and greedy. Creates dissent in their own ranks that can not be expressed. Because the party bosses suppress dissent. Both the brand name parties are fractured. They just can't "leave".. No where to go.

So -- if you can get around the "wasted vote" syndrome -- you can triangulate coalitions. AND activate the "big middle". You get the Big Middle off their asses with an Indie or 3rd run -- you can win. The problem is this PERCEPTION that it's a just a 2 party game. That's changing right now. Even the politicians are tired of being muzzled by their party leadership. You get folks that are able to speak out --- and the game changes.

"Red states", "Blue states" and "Swing states" --- three bullshit concepts that would not exist at all without the corruption of the WTA EC system that keeps that puppet show in place and ensures the perpetuation of the Duopoly, Forever, full stop.

EC doesn't apply to Congressional seats. And having even a 1/2 dozen "independent" voices would totally screw up the "tic tac toe" game. Because the MOST IMPORTANT members on "key votes" would be those Indie and 3rd folks. They would have a super amplified voice in deliberations. Don't NEED majorities to break the cones of silence that the party leadership places on EVERY member of Congress.

 

[Pogo]

EVERYBODY who lives in a so-called "red" or so-called "blue" state wastes their time voting at all, since that state is voting the way it's voting regardless of what any single voter does. Yet those very voters are the only ones in any position TO vote 3P, and even then it's nothing more than a drop-in-the-bucket protest against the system I just described. I've done it and it's unsatisfying to say the least.

This is NOT necessarily the case. The majority parties in those states get arrogant, lazy and greedy. Creates dissent in their own ranks that can not be expressed. Because the party bosses suppress dissent. Both the brand name parties are fractured. They just can't "leave".. No where to go.

So -- if you can get around the "wasted vote" syndrome -- you can triangulate coalitions. AND activate the "big middle". You get the Big Middle off their asses with an Indie or 3rd run -- you can win. The problem is this PERCEPTION that it's a just a 2 party game. That's changing right now. Even the politicians are tired of being muzzled by their party leadership. You get folks that are able to speak out --- and the game changes.

"Red states", "Blue states" and "Swing states" --- three bullshit concepts that would not exist at all without the corruption of the WTA EC system that keeps that puppet show in place and ensures the perpetuation of the Duopoly, Forever, full stop.

EC doesn't apply to Congressional seats. And having even a 1/2 dozen "independent" voices would totally screw up the "tic tac toe" game. Because the MOST IMPORTANT members on "key votes" would be those Indie and 3rd folks. They would have a super amplified voice in deliberations. Don't NEED majorities to break the cones of silence that the party leadership places on EVERY member of Congress.

Well spake. And again we do have a few Independents in Congress, but very very few.

Still --- the Duopoly can and will collude to marginalize, minimalize and dematerialize them. Matter of fact I just posted a historical example of that a couple of days ago -- where the New York State Assembly voted (on a "bipartisan" basis --- another Duopoly-derived bullshit term) to expel five duly elected members who were neither Democrats nor Republicans.